Co-OP refinery strike- why so quiet?

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by brendon444

https://www.fcl.crs/our-business/refinery-facts

Facts from Coops point of view.


I work in the oil and gas sector and coops deal seems relatively fair to me. I wont be getting a 11.75% raise over 4 years for sure in this economy. In the past 3 years many co-workers have been laid off and I have taken a 15% cut in overall wage. My job is very comparable to the refinery job without disclosing where I work.

What I find amusing is the number of people here who swallow misrepresentations that support their philosophies, whole, and nit pick any opposing view including facts presented.

Also, just because you're willing to take the short shaft from whatever company you work for, doesn't mean everyone should just lay back and take it and say "thank you, corporation! May i have another"

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

What I find amusing is the number of people here who swallow misrepresentations that support their philosophies, whole, and nit pick any opposing view including facts presented.

Also, just because you're willing to take the short shaft from whatever company you work for, doesn't mean everyone should just lay back and take it and say "thank you, corporation! May i have another"

Couldn't agree more

[brendon444]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

What I find amusing is the number of people here who swallow misrepresentations that support their philosophies, whole, and nit pick any opposing view including facts presented.

Also, just because you're willing to take the short shaft from whatever company you work for, doesn't mean everyone should just lay back and take it and say "thank you, corporation! May i have another"

Reading the information from Refinery facts on coops website it seems entirely fair. Enlighten us what I am missing? I have not seen any real numbers that show cuts.

Majority of oil companies are cutting back or laying people off, oil and gas economy is slow. Which means the job market has a lot of talent lining up for work. When the market was better many companies were offering 25%+ yearly retention bonus's, not the case anymore, there are many talented workers to pick from.

[AndrewM]

I find it funny how many people think all corporations are taking advantage of their employees and that there should be endless large raises. Or government paid people that think the same thing. If it is that easy to have a company and make all that money, you should start buying shares in these companies. Or even go and start your own.
Even if a company is making amazing money doesn’t mean they should pay you more. We aren’t entitled to endless income yet seems like a lot of people feel we should be.

[elkhunter11]

Ask for whatever you want, you have that right, as long as you do so legally. The company legally has the right to offer what they want in response, they don't have to agree to whatever the union demands, just because the union demands it. But Dias and Unifor don't want to accept that they will do whatever they please legally or otherwise to try and force the company to agree to their terms. The judge was more than fair allowing the protestors to block traffic for up to 10 minutes, but Dias and his Unifor goons from out of province were not satisfied with that, so they violated the terms of the court order. Of course Dias won't care about the $100,000 fine because he won't be paying it ,the workers will ,just like they pay his wage. For that reason, as soon as Dias is able to, he will likely be back on site , violating the terms of the court order again, and the workers will pay any more fines he causes , out of their earnings.

[Savage Bacon]

Ya co-op offered an almost 12% raise to cover the 4% they want the employees to start contributing to their pensions. No other co-op employee is having that 4% covered, nor are they being offered any wage increase. Both deals, the current one, or the one that's offered, is available for any other co-op employee.

[dgl1948]

Remember the 4 per cent they put in is treated the same as a RRSP. They get their income tax back on it.

Also in Sask if you are in a defined contribution plan when you retire you get your lump sum pension transferred to you. You can invest it to live off of or spend it tomorrow. You are not handicapped like a defined benefit plan.

[Savage Bacon]

Unifor just got a building in calgary so we should see more fencing and picketers in this area

[waldedw]

Well the talks didn't last long, 1 day then broke down, Unifor say's they don't care how many cops come there will not be 1 truck allowed out of the refinery, that could get interesting as well as illegal according to the court order.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by waldedw

Well the talks didn't last long, 1 day then broke down, Unifor say's they don't care how many cops come there will not be 1 truck allowed out of the refinery, that could get interesting as well as illegal according to the court order.

Make the next fine $500,000, and the next ones in the millions, bleed Unifor financially until they stop violating the court order. How many million can Unifor afford to pay?

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Ask for whatever you want, you have that right, as long as you do so legally. The company legally has the right to offer what they want in response, they don't have to agree to whatever the union demands, just because the union demands it. But Dias and Unifor don't want to accept that they will do whatever they please legally or otherwise to try and force the company to agree to their terms. The judge was more than fair allowing the protestors to block traffic for up to 10 minutes, but Dias and his Unifor goons from out of province were not satisfied with that, so they violated the terms of the court order. Of course Dias won't care about the $100,000 fine because he won't be paying it ,the workers will ,just like they pay his wage. For that reason, as soon as Dias is able to, he will likely be back on site , violating the terms of the court order again, and the workers will pay any more fines he causes , out of their earnings.

This seems about right, there’s a point where a person needs to learn the fine art of compromise, the offer tabled by Co-op is not bringing their workers rights back to the industrial revolution. Dias simply has too much of an ego. Listen to what the man said prior to our last federal election, does he sound like a remotely reasonable person to anyone.

His threats of a complete blockade are the promises of a tyrant. And this guy was appointed by the gov’t to a board that decides where the ridiculous fortune in media grant money goes?

[zero_eight]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Make the next fine $500,000, and the next ones in the millions, bleed Unifor financially until they stop violating the court order. How many million can Unifor afford to pay?

About 160 million budget for this debacle from what I hear, about 20 spent so far

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by zero_eight

About 160 million budget for this debacle from what I hear, about 20 spent so far

So make the next fine $1 million, and. the ones after $10 million each . Given them one fine for every day they violate the court order, and that $160 million could be gone in a couple of weeks. And with each fine , give Dias 30 days in jail.

[CaberTosser]

The contempt of court actions should get Dias booted from his Liberal board appointment.

[bloopbloob]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

I find it funny how many people think all corporations are taking advantage of their employees and that there should be endless large raises. Or government paid people that think the same thing. If it is that easy to have a company and make all that money, you should start buying shares in these companies. Or even go and start your own.
Even if a company is making amazing money doesn’t mean they should pay you more. We aren’t entitled to endless income yet seems like a lot of people feel we should be.

Agreed. I work for a billion dollar+ per year company, in a pretty good position. We have had lay-offs, and started a work share program, where almost all employees are down to 3 days a week. I have access to all the numbers, and a billion dollar company is in the negative recently.

Won't be a billion per year next year, that's for sure. Production is at about 15% to 20% of what it was in full swing

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by Savage Bacon

I just heard the advertisement on the radio. Well it's a little bit misleading. "Co-op promised us a pension, now they want to take it away" well that's not what's going on. Years ago when it was a smaller operation, the employee's portion of their pension contributions was paid by FCL. Now that the company has grown, and every other FCL employee has to pay their own portion of the contributions, these employees aren't happy and are not wanting to pay their own portions. Every other employee has to pay, so why shouldn't these people have to? I think it isn't fair to every other employee that these people are getting outdated special treatment.

I'd tell them to all come inside, where it's nice and warm, and clean your stuff out of your lockers.

When my union negotiated contracts with pension plans we took LESS of a pay increase in order to gain a pension. While johnny down the road took a 10% pay increases we took 5%, with the balance going into our new pension plan. Just a thought, but perhaps that is what happened with these fellows, and now they don't think it's right?

[Kolibri]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

When my union negotiated contracts with pension plans we took LESS of a pay increase in order to gain a pension. While johnny down the road took a 10% pay increases we took 5%, with the balance going into our new pension plan. Just a thought, but perhaps that is what happened with these fellows, and now they don't think it's right?

Co-op has its share of issues for sure from a staffing perspective. I have worked with several guys who left there to get better wages in Edmonton and Ft Mac. From what a number of them told me over the years the pension was what people who stay there cling too. Doesnt surprise me this has gone this long, or will go longer.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by Kolibri

Co-op has its share of issues for sure from a staffing perspective. I have worked with several guys who left there to get better wages in Edmonton and Ft Mac. From what a number of them told me over the years the pension was what people who stay there cling too. Doesnt surprise me this has gone this long, or will go longer.

It could drag on for a long time if Alberta laws allow replacement workers, they are locked out and replacement workers are being brought in by chopper [read on posts here]. Weak labour laws like that can lead to protracted labour disputes, it's too bad.

[zero_eight]

Originally Posted by Kolibri

Co-op has its share of issues for sure from a staffing perspective. I have worked with several guys who left there to get better wages in Edmonton and Ft Mac. From what a number of them told me over the years the pension was what people who stay there cling too. Doesnt surprise me this has gone this long, or will go longer.

Just curious, were these in-scope or management Co-op employees that moved for better wages?

[Kolibri]

Originally Posted by zero_eight

Just curious, were these in-scope or management Co-op employees that moved for better wages?

Operators mainly, one super.

[waldedw]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

It could drag on for a long time if Alberta laws allow replacement workers, they are locked out and replacement workers are being brought in by chopper [read on posts here]. Weak labour laws like that can lead to protracted labour disputes, it's too bad.

Not sure what this has to do with Alberta labor laws.......... the lock out is at the co-op refinery in Regina Saskatchewan

[FishOutOfWater]

Originally Posted by waldedw

Not sure what this has to do with Alberta labor laws.......... the lock out is at the co-op refinery in Regina Saskatchewan

That's funny... I was at the Co-OP Cardlock in Caresland yesterday, 4 RCMP units watching two dozen picketers and 2 tankers that have been parked for 13 days outside the fence surrounding the property.

[sirmike68]

I suspect CO-OP is being supported by Imperial, Shell and Suncor who also have Unifor at their plantsites. If CO-OP can cut the pensions and benefits of its workers you can bet the other companies will follow suit when their contracts come due. I believe Shell refinery only has a year to 18 months left in its contract so they will be the first to test the waters.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by FishOutOfWater

That's funny... I was at the Co-OP Cardlock in Caresland yesterday, 4 RCMP units watching two dozen picketers and 2 tankers that have been parked for 13 days outside the fence surrounding the property.

4 RCMP units - 24 picketers???....and the taxpayer picks up the tab for this BS why???

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by sirmike68

I suspect CO-OP is being supported by Imperial, Shell and Suncor who also have Unifor at their plantsites. If CO-OP can cut the pensions and benefits of its workers you can bet the other companies will follow suit when their contracts come due. I believe Shell refinery only has a year to 18 months left in its contract so they will be the first to test the waters.

We’re offering a fair 11.75% raise over four years....

I only wish my employer was offering this.....Actually it has been more like a 5% roll back every year.....Extended time off at break up, Less work more home time (without pay).....Ya I feel real sorry for them Union boys all snug and warm in their beds every night!

[sirmike68]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

We’re offering a fair 11.75% raise over four years....

I only wish my employer was offering this.....Actually it has been more like a 5% roll back every year.....Extended time off at break up, Less work more home time (without pay).....Ya I feel real sorry for them Union boys all snug and warm in their beds every night!

Maybe you should unionize. Ha

[sask]

Originally Posted by sirmike68

I suspect CO-OP is being supported by Imperial, Shell and Suncor who also have Unifor at their plantsites. If CO-OP can cut the pensions and benefits of its workers you can bet the other companies will follow suit when their contracts come due. I believe Shell refinery only has a year to 18 months left in its contract so they will be the first to test the waters.

Just to insert a little information here.

The Defined Benfit Pension currently in place is/has been solely funded by the employer. No employee has had to contribute ever to his/her pension. This is unheard of

The offer by employer is to allow the employees currently in the Defined benefit plan to remain in it but to contribute at a % to be negotiated.

Alternatively, and for employees not eligible for the DB plan , a defined contribution plan can be chosen. In this case the employer kicks in 11% of the employees salary if the employee kicks in 4%.

Basically the raise would more than cover the employees contribution

I suspect you are wrong regarding Imperial,etc. , however I do not know that for a fact

[HeavyD111]

Originally Posted by Kolibri

Co-op has its share of issues for sure from a staffing perspective. I have worked with several guys who left there to get better wages in Edmonton and Ft Mac. From what a number of them told me over the years the pension was what people who stay there cling too. Doesnt surprise me this has gone this long, or will go longer.

Part of why some people leave is the whole cancerous vibe there. It is so negative you have to work there to understand how guys making massive wages for relatively safe work can hate everything. Staff hates management...management hates staff, union hates company, company hates union, operators hate stores workers, everyone hates everyone. Its brutal, and this is coming from a guy who worked at a prison. Corrections had a better morale than coop, and thats not good. No matter what is settled from the strike, the bitterness will go on endlessly.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

We’re offering a fair 11.75% raise over four years....

I only wish my employer was offering this.....Actually it has been more like a 5% roll back every year.....Extended time off at break up, Less work more home time (without pay).....Ya I feel real sorry for them Union boys all snug and warm in their beds every night!

I wish no ill will on anyone personally doing better than me or trying to do better than me.

Break up used to kill my summer plans every year. Ended up with spring off and scraping by on any job in the summer. But I changed that by changing occupations.

[Savage Bacon]

Co-op to be limiting fuel purchased due to illegal unifor blockade.