Co-OP refinery strike- why so quiet?

[dgl1948]

https://www.fcl.crs/our-business/refinery-facts

Coops posting

[Savage Bacon]

Ya the ad on the radio is totally misinforming people. Like I said before. I'd invite the employees inside where it's nice and warm, and tell them to get their personal belongings together, and beat it. Too many good workers out there would be more than happy to go work for what these picketers are being offered. They're even getting a wage increase!

[tbiddy]

They have also made a video titled “Meet the Scabs”. It’s a video showing the faces of replacement works, their names and their pictures from Facebook. One alleged replacement worker is suing the union as he’s never worked at the refinery.

From what I understand, they were offered a 12% raise but have to start contributing to their pension. Most already make $100k/yr.

The union is getting zero sympathy from a province that has lots of oil and gas workers out of jobs that would love to be working. I can see this lasting a long time.

[HeavyD111]

Originally Posted by Savage Bacon

I just heard the advertisement on the radio. Well it's a little bit misleading. "Co-op promised us a pension, now they want to take it away" well that's not what's going on. Years ago when it was a smaller operation, the employee's portion of their pension contributions was paid by FCL. Now that the company has grown, and every other FCL employee has to pay their own portion of the contributions, these employees aren't happy and are not wanting to pay their own portions. Every other employee has to pay, so why shouldn't these people have to? I think it isn't fair to every other employee that these people are getting outdated special treatment.

I'd tell them to all come inside, where it's nice and warm, and clean your stuff out of your lockers.

They are striking because coop said “OK” to not making the refinery employees contribute to their pension from their paycheck. If they didn’t want to have future pains after it grew to include a whole whack of people, then they shouldnt have agreed to it. Who couldnt see this is a potentially bad move?

So in a nutshell it IS coop refusing the pension the had agreed to. Both sided have legitimate complaints, but coop should have used their brain a bit more when they signed this deal...every year the agreement goes up for bargain, its a huge pi$$ing match.

[Windsweptcoast]

My understanding it is a matter of changing from a defined benefit to defined contribution pension plan. I would expect the union to have about a 0% chance of winning that fight. They are wasting time and money and unfortunately harming peoples livelihoods with this strike.

[Dead Moose]

Now that I know this, I will go out of mu way to buy gas from Co-op. Jerry Dais is a despicable person (a Turdope supporter)

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Dead Moose

Now that I know this, I will go out of mu way to buy gas from Co-op. Jerry Dais is a despicable person (a Turdope supporter)

I have avoided Coop products ever since I had the opportunity to participate in testing various gasolines on actual lab testing equipment. I also visited their refinery by Regina, and was not impressed.

[dgl1948]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I have avoided Coop products ever since I had the opportunity to participate in testing various gasolines on actual lab testing equipment. I also visited their refinery by Regina, and was not impressed.

Then you better not buy gas in Sask or Manitoba. Every station other than the Huskies have fuel out of this refinery.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by dgl1948

Then you better not buy gas in Sask or Manitoba. Every station other than the Huskies have fuel out of this refinery.

I do my best to avoid buying fuel in Saskatchewan and I rarely travel to Manitoba.

[CaberTosser]

I fuel up at Co-op almost exclusively, unless I’m somewhere without a Co-op station. Gas or diesel, I’ve never had a problem with their fuel. Switched to using them exclusively perhaps 5-6 years ago, used to go to Canadian Tire gas bars prior to that to feed my CT money addiction. The reason? Co-op has the best member refund (Costco aside, and Costco doesn’t have diesel, at least at any Costco station I’ve seen)

[ssyd]

Did a little research after I first heard the ad and it sounds like the union is throwing up their hands in rage over something very few other people in other industries get. They're angry because co-op asked workers to start contributing to their pensions and I don't think this is something that needed a massive advertising campaign to try to gather support for their cause.

I love shopping at Co-Op, the Co-Op Gold stuff is some of the best store brand products out there. The station I go to always seems to be the first to lower their price and last to raise it when the price changes. To be selfish here, I'm hoping that this squabble means co-op will keep their gas prices lower to keep people coming to them

[Nova]

Originally Posted by ssyd

Did a little research after I first heard the ad and it sounds like the union is throwing up their hands in rage over something very few other people in other industries get. They're angry because co-op asked workers to start contributing to their pensions and I don't think this is something that needed a massive advertising campaign to try to gather support for their cause.

The issue goes beyond having to contribute. From what I've read their prior contracts it was agreed that they'd roll out DC pensions and existing DB pensions would not be affected. This round the company has done an about face and is cutting the existing DB pensions, and this is where the issue has come in.

The company I work for switched new hires over to a DC pension about 7 years ago. Existing employees had the option to stay on the DB plan or switch to the DC plan, while maintaining the time they have invested in the DB plan. We've been through 2 contract negotiations and the DB plan is still being negotiated on fairly. Our overall compensation is in line with FCL and there is no uproar. I expect if the company decided to roll back the payout rates of the DB pension we would probably see a similar result to FCL.

I totally understand why the union has dug their heels in, but at the same time I don't necessarily like the tactics they've employed.

[dgl1948]

Originally Posted by Nova

The issue goes beyond having to contribute. From what I've read their prior contracts it was agreed that they'd roll out DC pensions and existing DB pensions would not be affected. This round the company has done an about face and is cutting the existing DB pensions, and this is where the issue has come in.

The company I work for switched new hires over to a DC pension about 7 years ago. Existing employees had the option to stay on the DB plan or switch to the DC plan, while maintaining the time they have invested in the DB plan. We've been through 2 contract negotiations and the DB plan is still being negotiated on fairly. Our overall compensation is in line with FCL and there is no uproar. I expect if the company decided to roll back the payout rates of the DB pension we would probably see a similar result to FCL.

In totally understand why the union has dug their heels in, but at the same time I don't necessarily like the tactics they've employed.

When a contract is up nothing is protected. You go through the complete process and agree to each clause. In most cases a good number of clauses never change but there still must be agreement from both sides.

In this dispute the company has still offered to keep the DB plan for those who want to keep it and are offering to put 10 percent in it.

“We’re offering employees a choice of two options:
Defined benefit (DB): Our employees remain in their current pension plan but would have to contribute a percentage, which is not yet agreed to in bargaining;
Defined contribution (DC): The CRC contributes 6% automatically, even if our employees don’t contribute. The CRC will match contributions up to 4%, bringing the total to 14%;
Regardless of which pension choice they make, we will treat all our employees the same by contributing up to 10% to their pension plan.”

[waldedw]

Having never worked for a company that had a pension plan nor spent 1 day as a union employee I can't speak for either side here and it sounds like they both have some valid points and are taking a stand.

I'm not sure what the workers get for strike pay, but you can bet it's no where near what they make when they are working inside that plant instead of freezing outside the fence.

I think by the time they walk the picket line for 2 or 3 months without their regular wages there is no possible way they will never get back what they have lost monetary wise, no matter what the outcome of this disagreement is I think they loose.

Just my humble opinion, as I have no dog in this fight.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by waldedw

Having never worked for a company that had a pension plan nor spent 1 day as a union employee I can't speak for either side here and it sounds like they both have some valid points and are taking a stand.

I'm not sure what the workers get for strike pay, but you can bet it's no where near what they make when they are working inside that plant instead of freezing outside the fence.

I think by the time they walk the picket line for 2 or 3 months without their regular wages there is no possible way they will never get back what they have lost monetary wise, no matter what the outcome of this disagreement is I think they loose.

Just my humble opinion, as I have no dog in this fight.

If the union executives also had to live on strike pay, during the strike, just like the workers, strikes would be much shorter in duration.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If the union executives also had to live on strike pay, during the strike, just like the workers, strikes would be much shorter in duration.

The problem with this statement is that is that the union officials are involved in far more than simply dealing with a strike situation but I am sure you are actually ware of that.
The extra hours on weekends and on night calls that an agent puts in for example, are never paid for.
There is always business that has to be attended during a strike period that is separate from the strike issue itself.
Cat

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

The problem with this statement is that is that the union officials are involved in far more than simply dealing with a strike situation but I am sure you are actually ware of that.
The extra hours on weekends and on night calls that an agent puts in for example, are never paid for.
There is always business that has to be attended during a strike period that is separate from the strike issue itself.
Cat

Many people in management don't get paid for overtime calls, they accept this as part of their job description because their position provides benefits to offset this. But the fact is that if the union executives had to live on strike pay like the workers do they would have more inspiration to settle strikes. As noble as the idea of unions once were, many unions have evolved into big business, just like the companies that employ the workers. Some union presidents are making over $700,000 US.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...ers-earn-more/

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Many people in management don't get paid for overtime calls, they accept this as part of their job description because their position provides benefits to offset this. But the fact is that if the union executives had to live on strike pay like the workers do they would have more inspiration to settle strikes. As noble as the idea of unions once were, many unions have evolved into big business, just like the companies that employ the workers. Some union presidents are making over $700,000 US.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...ers-earn-more/

So maybe the big company executives should take a roll back too.
Your response makes no sens at all.

Union executives sign a contract and are not under a collective agreement protection,, and they are not part of the bargaining sector.
Cat

[Walleye Willy]

Originally Posted by dgl1948

Then you better not buy gas in Sask or Manitoba. Every station other than the Huskies have fuel out of this refinery.

Shell has a finished product pipeline direct to Sprague Manitoba and a distribution terminal in St. Boniface. The `White Line`. Provides product to Manitoba and NW Ontario.

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by dgl1948

They strikers are members of Unifor. This is the union who’s leader campaigned in the last election. He wanted the oil, gas, and mining shut down. He ran adds wanting to stop all pipeline construction stopped. He stood beside Trudeau and kissed his but. They are not getting any support in Sask for their cause.

Truth^^^^^

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

So maybe the big company executives should take a roll back too.
Your response makes no sens at all.

Union executives sign a contract and are not under a collective agreement protection,, and they are not part of the bargaining sector.
Cat

The company employees wages are up to the company to decide on, because the company pays them, just as the union executives wages should be up to the union membership, because the union membership pays the union executive. Since the executives pay comes out of the workers pay, the workers should be more concerned about the union executives pay than the company executives pay. Yet we have union presidents complaining about the CEO wages while they rake in wages that in some cases are more that the wages the CEOs make.

Jerry Dias the Unifor president openly spoke out against pipelines and has become a political pawn of Trudeau which is costing the oil and gas workers jobs, and oil and gas is paying part of his wage.

They strikers are members of Unifor. This is the union who’s leader campaigned in the last election. He wanted the oil, gas, and mining shut down. He ran adds wanting to stop all pipeline construction stopped. He stood beside Trudeau and kissed his but. They are not getting any support in Sask for their cause.

Exactly. Dias and Unifor have become no different than the CEOs and companies that they condemn.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

So maybe the big company executives should take a roll back too.

Cat

Agreed, and usually they do. If they don't they are hypocrites and crooks.

I've seen cases where Management took a 20% decrease while the union took 3% over the contract (3 years). (that was here in Alberta).

All of the cases I've been involved in where there were freezes and or rollbacks this was the case. I should say this is likely 20-30 collective agreements here and in my US branches where we did rollbacks or freezes of some sort in unionized facilities.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The company employees wages are up to the company to decide on, because the company pays them, just as the union executives wages should be up to the union membership, because the union membership pays the union executive. Since the executives pay comes out of the workers pay, the workers should be more concerned about the union executives pay than the company executives pay. Yet we have union presidents complaining about the CEO wages while they rake in wages that in some cases are more that the wages the CEOs make.

Jerry Dias the Unifor president openly spoke out against pipelines and has become a political pawn of Trudeau which is costing the oil and gas workers jobs, and oil and gas is paying part of his wage.



Exactly. Dias and Unifor have become no different than the CEOs and companies that they condemn.

You are bang on Elk

I have been a part of probably close to 100 collective bargaining sessions in one form or another as a part of my job and I have yet, once, ever, to have the union disclose wages for individuals they employ outside the collective bargaining unit. As a matter of fact, it's up to the union membership to ask for this, we, as management had no "right" to know this (although in many cases this information was available).

I can tell you, without a shred of doubt, many (maybe most) of these people get paid a grossly exorbitant amount of money far beyond what an average person would even believe is remotely possible …… way beyond what you can imagine - and I bet the union members themselves would be shocked and enraged.

I encourage all union members to ask for the transparent disclosure of total compensation for any of their representatives.

[zero_eight]

And Dias just got arrested

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by zero_eight

And Dias just got arrested

A small fine will accomplish nothing give him 10 days in jail and fine him $250,000 and each other demonstrator that was arrested, the same 10 days and $10,000. Issue a court order prohibiting each of the arrested people from being within 1km of the site, and if they violate the order multiply the fines by 4.

[silver]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

https://myshakgroup.com/

Done.

If there is money to be made private industry will fill it. The union operators will get hungry and work for the privateers.

They may be in the business of renting equipment, I don't think they are big enough.
Mammoet, Sterling, and Northern can come up with the iron but I don't think any body else can.

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

I fuel up at Co-op almost exclusively, unless I’m somewhere without a Co-op station. Gas or diesel, I’ve never had a problem with their fuel. Switched to using them exclusively perhaps 5-6 years ago, used to go to Canadian Tire gas bars prior to that to feed my CT money addiction. The reason? Co-op has the best member refund (Costco aside, and Costco doesn’t have diesel, at least at any Costco station I’ve seen)

Easthills Costco has diesel. 17th and Stoney.

[Sitting Bull]

17st co op here in Edmonton had boycott signs on blvd's and strikers in the entrances to the pumps. I exclusively buy Co op gas and diesel. I like there cash back, they are close to home, they are always cheaper and the staff are always friendly.never had a problem with there fuel.
I say they should be thankful they have a great paying job. A lot of people would love to have anything close to what they have. I never liked unions and never have worked for one.

[Savage Bacon]

Other people should be picketing with signs that say "go back to work spoiled workers"

[silver]

Originally Posted by Savage Bacon

Other people should be picketing with signs that say "go back to work spoiled workers"

They are not striking, they are locked out.