Snowmobile trespass

[Mb-MBR]

Not sure what the proper action is in this situation......good thing it didn't escalate.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskat...ideo-1.2577303

[Artist]

Tough call - depending on "which side of the fence you would have been on". I don't buy the statement by the snowmobiler that "I turned around and realized there's a house there and I am on some guy's yard" - that statement illustrates the total disregard the snowmobiler had for the fact that he should have pre-determined his route a bit more carefully - these guys aimlessly blowing through private property would upset any land-owner. Showing up with a gun however, also isn't a good idea, and, given our laws these days, this landowner may just have landed himself in a heap of trouble.

[Ken07AOVette]

I know what I would do.

If I got away without incident it would be straight to the RCMP with the video, asking the RCMP to pursue charges of uttering threats, common assault, assault with a weapon, pointing a firearm, use of firearm in commission of an offense, intimidation, unlawful confinement, threat of bodily harm, damage to personal property.

Then I would contact a Collection Agency and have them go after him for the damages to the snowmobile. (hood)

THEN I would go to the media.

[unclebuck]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

I know what I would do.

If I got away without incident it would be straight to the RCMP with the video, asking the RCMP to pursue charges of uttering threats, common assault, assault with a weapon, pointing a firearm, use of firearm in commission of an offense, intimidation, unlawful confinement, threat of bodily harm, damage to personal property.

Then I would contact a Collection Agency and have them go after him for the damages to the snowmobile. (hood)

THEN I would go to the media.

Simple moral to a story - know where you are and stay out of private property!!! I carry liability insurance on my farm in Saskatchewan just for instances like this. Arseholes like this would sue your backside off if they hit something while trespassing on your property if they, or their snowmobile suffered some damage due to their own stupidity or negligence. While I do not condone the property owner's actions, he obviously had a previous problem with a similar type.

[rugatika]

I can't say I blame the guy for being upset. Carrying a gun was way overboard though.

When the snowmobiler says he suddenly realized he was on private property, that says it all right there. He's a lying sack of feces. They knew darn well they were running across private property.

Sounds like a wash to me. Both parties got some stink on them.

[JB_AOL]

Charge them both
/end of story.

While slightly different,

I have dealt with many situations like this. We had the legal rights (ie. proper permissions from gov't, all landowners were notified), to use the road, yet farmers think they own the road (which is on gov't property), and we've had cases where the LO has tried to hit our cars with tractors, have used guns to try to intimidate us, etc. A simple call to the RC's and charges laid against the LO. Oddly enough, more often than not, the LO has had many previous similar charges.

Back OT. Now I understand his frustration since they were on private property, but how well signed was this? is there a fence surrounding the complete property? We're they just crossing the land? or buzzing back and forth messing around (not that one is better), but if they were just crossing the land. Maybe they truly didn't know it was private. Although since he mentioned he was stuck, I'd assume messing around.

Best bet, in this case, charge them both.

[north american hunter]

He's absolutely has a right to be mad, if somebody was in my land without permission I would be P.O.ed to but the gun was to much.

[58thecat]

I was on the back end of my property shooting a 22 at steel targets, walking up had a guy blow out of my quad trail see me and locked her up, put her in full throttle reverse just to smash into a tree, got her in forward and took off like a banshee...guess seeing me walking towards the targets in his direction with the rifle got him a little excited....funny as heck! People do know when they are trespassing which never ceases to amaze me.

[6.5swedeforelk]

If the landowner never had his duck gun & confronted those two, he probably would have had the ship kicked out of him!

[BeeGuy]

SSS

Ralphie had it right!

[Snowdog]

if you have to go through a gate (as at the end of the vid) while snowmobiling in farm land chances are you have just been or are about to be trespassing.

[Redfrog]

Some folks better look up the definition of trespassing.

[Ebrand]

If you don't know who owns the land you are on you can't have permission to be there. Simple.

I appreciate the landowners frustration, but ....Really? Wow.

[NEWB]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Some folks better look up the definition of trespassing.

Petty Trespassing act 2009

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/acts/p11.pdf

Trespass to premises Act 2000 Current as of June 2004
http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/acts/t07.pdf

[csteeves]

Obviously the snowmobilers are trespassing.

Obviously it doesn't make sense to confront them with a gun, which you handle all too carelessly for my liking.

Pretty hard to argue with a mischief and assault charges against the old gun.

[338Bluff]

Originally Posted by NEWB

Petty Trespassing act 2009

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/acts/p11.pdf

Trespass to premises Act 2000 Current as of June 2004
http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/acts/t07.pdf

so technically you are not going to be charged until you are asked to leave and refuse to do so?

really no disincentive not to trespass as the landowner has to catch you. up until that point you can pretty much just enjoy yourself.

[Sooner]

I sled lots, used to sled around here years ago as a friend owns land east of Edmonton. That was until we got yelled at by a land owner. We were in the wrong, got caught crossing his field, apologised and took our lumps. There were no fences, no animals, no signs and no house or farm on the quarter. Since then we ride crown land. Miles and miles of cut lines, backwoods lakes and sled trails, lots of snow and nobody can say no(put on 150 km just yesterday). The owner had every right to stop those two guys but not with a shot gun and putting the boots to the sled. I don't think the whole story is out yet re guarding those 3. When you ride farm land, the excuse "we didn't know" doesn't hold water. Unless you ride the ditch only, you are always trespassing on someone's land. Some owners don't care, some do, that's why we don't ride it any more.

[NEWB]

Originally Posted by 338Bluff

so technically you are not going to be charged until you are asked to leave and refuse to do so?

really no disincentive not to trespass as the landowner has to catch you. up until that point you can pretty much just enjoy yourself.

Notice
2.1(1) Entry on land may be prohibited by notice to that effect,
and entry is prohibited without any notice on land
(a) that is a lawn, garden or land that is under cultivation,
(b) that is surrounded by a fence, a natural boundary or a
combination of a fence and a natural boundary, or
(c) that is enclosed in a manner that indicates the owner’s or
occupier’s intention to keep persons off the land or to
keep animals on the land.

[Sledhead71]

Unfortunately there is way to many who show no regard for private property when utilizing their toys...

Ignorance is NOT an excuse and these two trespassers should clearly have been somewhere else where they had permission to ride.

End of story.. Old fella did what he felt was necessary on private property..

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by NEWB

Notice
2.1(1) Entry on land may be prohibited by notice to that effect,
and entry is prohibited without any notice on land
(a) that is a lawn, garden or land that is under cultivation,
(b) that is surrounded by a fence, a natural boundary or a
combination of a fence and a natural boundary, or
(c) that is enclosed in a manner that indicates the owner’s or
occupier’s intention to keep persons off the land or to
keep animals on the land.

It's a sad day when a landowner has to post signs to keep uninvited people of his land. You'd think people would know better but it happen fairly often.

[Ken07AOVette]

Was CASTLE DOCTRINE brought in to Canada when I was in Hawaii?

Were we taken over by TEXAS?


It doesn't matter how anyone on the board 'feels' about trespassing, this guy pulled a shotgun on 2 snowmobilers, hit 1 of them and kicked the snowmobile.


He was wrong. Maybe he could/should have charged them with trespassing on his I would assume posted land, but he went way too far. They should have not gone on his land, but if that gun was loaded someone could have paid the ultimate price.

If this was 'your' son or daughter or father on the sled would you feel the same way?

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Was CASTLE DOCTRINE brought in to Canada when I was in Hawaii?

Were we taken over by TEXAS?


It doesn't matter how anyone on the board 'feels' about trespassing, this guy pulled a shotgun on 2 snowmobilers, hit 1 of them and kicked the snowmobile.


He was wrong. Maybe he could/should have charged them with trespassing on his I would assume posted land, but he went way too far.

Too much sun while you were away Ken ?

How would you feel if a couple young lads were on your property causing you issues ? Any issues really, theft, damage, threat ?

Pretty clear really, sure a man of your statue would put your mitt around their neck at minimum

[Austin]

Take a look again at the end of the video... Clearly he sleds up to a fenced gate that they would have had to have passed through at one time.

I say charge them both but the sledder is lying about not knowing he was on private land.

[Gust]

both parties are at fault,, the snowmobilers trespassed and the property owner trespassed. The property owner confronted them on his neighbours property not his own property.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by Austin

Take a look again at the end of the video... Clearly he sleds up to a fenced gate that they would have had to have passed through at one time.

I say charge them both but the sledder is lying about not knowing he was on private land.

If it's a field it's more than likely private.
They're both liars because in the newspaper article it mentioned " prize winning alpacas"

[Gust]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

If it's a field it's more than likely private.
They're both liars because in the newspaper article it mentioned " prize winning alpacas"

lol!

[Okotokian]

I liked how the poor landowner said he carried the gun because he didn't know if he would be assaulted. Well, if you go up to people and slap them, you probably will get the crap punched out of you. Of course with wackadoodle carrying a gun, the snowmobiler didn't dare defend himself.

There's one gun owner who should have his PAL pulled for a good long time.

I don't have an issue with the landowner confronting the sledders. They may indeed have trespassed. But hitting the guy without provocation while carrying a gun? No.

[BeeGuy]

Those Alpacas look delicious.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I liked how the poor landowner said he carried the gun because he didn't know if he would be assaulted. Well, if you go up to people and slap them, you probably will get the crap punched out of you. Of course with wackadoodle carrying a gun, the snowmobiler didn't dare defend himself.

There's one gun owner who should have his PAL pulled for a good long time.

1) pull his PAL forever
2) charge him to the full extent the law permits.

Guys using rifles in such a manner should set the firearms community a gasp.


Pretend the alpaca lover is Somalian, and think of the ramifications.

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Pretend the alpaca lover is Somalian, and think of the ramifications.

I think most people can see the situation for what it is without injecting race into the matter.

By the way, generally speaking, a shotgun is not a rifle. By in large they are smooth bores.