Any real world difference between 2 3/4 and 3" in 20 gauge

[north american hunter]

Say you are shooting 1 oz with #6 shot in both out of a 26" barrel, will there be any really world difference between the two on pheasants?

My guess is no. Whats your guys opinions?

[Twisted Canuck]

The only variable would be at what distance and with what choke I'd think. Inside 15 yards, you have a bird that could not give testimony as to whether you used a 3" or 2 3/4", improved or full choke. After 20 yards, things might change a bit I suspect. Knowing the way your shotgun patterns is far more important, and how you shoot it, than that extra 1/4". That has application in a few areas of life.

[southernman]

No. Difference.
One oz of #6 has about 240 pellets, if you centred the bird in the pattern,
A 3" shell will hold about an 1/8 oz more pellets so about 30 more, or about 10%.
The only advantage I feel with the bigger hulls, bit more room may give a better pellet count, for heavy for bore shot, say #3-4 in a 20 ga, and more room for a slower burning bulky powder for increased speed.
Neither of witch, matter at all, if you have the shot on target, but extra speed may help if your slightly off.

[elkhunter11]

You don't need a 3" magnum to kill pheasants. I usually use a 28 gauge which works well , and I occasionally use a 20 gauge with 2-3/4" loads. In either case, I use nickel plated shot, because it penetrates better, and doesn't drag nearly as many feathers into the flesh as unplated lead.

[catnthehat]

The difference in s 1 oz load in a 2 3/4" load
And a 1 oz load in a 3" shell is the cage height of the wads s long as they are the same drams equivalent

Basically what that means is that either shell can be loaded faster than the other with the same shot size and chard weight.
FWIW my favourite pheasant load these days is either 7/8 oz of 7 1/2 nickel out of a 28 with IC/MOD or 1 oz of 7 1/2's powered by 80 grains of FFG out of a 12 gauge with CYL/CYL
Sometimes I shoot a 16 and sometimes a 20 with 7/8 oz of 71/2's or 6's
With IC/MOD or CYL/CYL
Where you put it is far more important than how big, and everything else aside, a lightweight gun is the biggest factor for me
Cat

[densa44]

If you are shooting at a pointed bird a 20 ga. is too much gun IMO. I've now moved to a .410 and my buddy has a 28 ga.

You don't need 3" shells even in .410.

On the other hand, if you don't train your dog and he flushes everything as soon as he finds it, that may be different.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by densa44

If you are shooting at a pointed bird a 20 ga. is too much gun IMO. I've now moved to a .410 and my buddy has a 28 ga.

You don't need 3" shells even in .410.

On the other hand, if you don't train your dog and he flushes everything as soon as he finds it, that may be different.

Our dog holds birds just fine , but when hunting Sharptails they tend to get flighty, and sometimes late season birds that have been hunted hard can get up a bit early without the dog busting them.
However, a black powder load in a 410 is just too light for pheasants IMO.
I have a set of Briley Sidekicks, and the 410 tubes are over twice as long as the 20 or 28 inserts, and I think it is because of the energy generated by such a small case.
Some shooters like to use larger shot sizes for birds, and the small capacity of the 410 does not let you get too much in there.
Cat

[GWN]

One of our guys at our range has been hunting game birds of all kinds with a 20 gauge alongside guys hunting with 12s and he does just us as well over the same distances and types of shots

He will go to a 12 with waterfowl and particularly geese but otherwise has hunted with a 20 pretty well since he could stand and hold a gun

He also shoots skeet, sporting clays and trap at our range and has never felt undergunned,

The vast majority of shooters that I talk to have no problem using the 20

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by densa44

I've now moved to a .410 and my buddy has a 28 ga.

So he bats clean-up for you, eh? LOL

Kidding. I'm interested in this because I've just bought a 20 gauge (yet to even shoot it). I have a 12 gauge I'll use for waterfowl, so I was never expecting to shoot anything but 2 3/4" from the lightweight 20 on upland.

[north american hunter]

Thanks you guys.

[densa44]

I'm thinking about it though. I use Lil gun 19 gr. I think, and I get impressive performance.

What it has taken me many years to understand, is that at the same velocity, each pellet has the same energy, regardless of what gauge shotgun they started in.

The pic is of a sheet of steel siding at 19 yards. #5 lead.

[catnthehat]

FWIW , a young lad the other evening borrowed my 28 gauge SxS Ugartechea and with the modified barrel shot 20/25 at wobble trap with 3/4oz loads!
Cat

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by densa44

I'm thinking about it though. I use Lil gun 19 gr. I think, and I get impressive performance.

What it has taken me many years to understand, is that at the same velocity, each pellet has the same energy, regardless of what gauge shotgun they started in.
.

This is hard for some to understand for sure!.
The biggest difference lies in the amount of shot thrown , and to a lesser extent , the bore size , but that affects shot strings and pattern to a lesser extent.

Cat

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

This is hard for some to understand for sure!.
The biggest difference lies in the amount of shot thrown , and to a lesser extent , the bore size , but that affects shot strings and pattern to a lesser extent.

Cat

Exactly, the pattern density is reduced as the shot charge is reduced, As long as you place your patterns very well, and you limit your shots to distances where the pattern density is still adequate, you should be able to make clean kills. With the 410, the pattern density falls off fairly quickly, so the effective range is much less than with the larger gauges. And if your shooting is off by just a bit and only the outer edge of the pattern strikes the bird, cripples or lost birds are much more likely with the 410. If you really want to see the difference between the various gauges, shoot skeet with the various gauges. For the average shooter, the scores will be very close with the 12 and 20 gauge, just slightly lower with the 28 gauge, and significantly lower with the 410.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If you really want to see the difference between the various gauges, shoot skeet with the various gauges. For the average shooter, the scores will be very close with the 12 and 20 gauge, just slightly lower with the 28 gauge, and significantly lower with the 410.

There is so little difference in fact between the 12 and 20 that many tournament shooters don 't even use a 12 but only use the 20,28, and 410, even for the 12 gauge class!
Cat

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

There is so little difference in fact between the 12 and 20 that many tournament shooters don 't even use a 12 but only use the 20,28, and 410, even for the 12 gauge class!
Cat

Exactly, I haven't shot a 12 gauge at skeet this year., and I am shooting scores that are just as high with the 28 gauge, as I did with the 12 gauge.

I haven't shot a 12 gauge at sporting clays either this year, and my 20 gauge scores are higher than I ever shot with the 12 gauge.

[Sneeze]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

There is so little difference in fact between the 12 and 20 that many tournament shooters don 't even use a 12 but only use the 20,28, and 410, even for the 12 gauge class!
Cat

I kind of disagree here - for example Shooting regulation max skeet loads, you have 29% more pellets when you compare 12 ga to a 20 ga shooting the same diameter shot. While some may relish in the challenge, shooting a sub-gauge is a definite handicap.

Not directed at you Cat cause I think you understand - guys for some reason just don't understand shotgun shells.

Just maybe somebody here will note what I am about to say:

1. There is NO information you can deduce about the "power" or energy of a shotgun shell from simply its hull length. It is simply a figure that gives reference to its POTENTIAL volume of powder and shot. Meaning - a 3" load can store more shot and powder then a 2 3/4" load. It does not mean the shells you have picked up at Canadian Tire are more powerful because they are 3"

2. There is only a small amount of information you can deduce about the "power" of a shell from the gauge. Once again, its just a figure that states the diameter of the bore. Again, providing some information on the potential volume of powder and shot that can be contained in the hull. For example - a 1 oz, 1200 FPS 20 gauge load is exactly the same as a 1 oz, 1200 FPS 12 gauge load.

These are two of my pet peeves when talking shotguns. They go out and buy tiny little 20 gauge guns for their wives and then buy 1 oz 1300 fps loads and wonder why the gun kicks so hard compared to their heavy framed 12.

Or, guys by 3.5" "Magnum" waterfowl guns and then buy 1 1/8 oz. 1500FPS 3 1/2" shells for $10.00 more and think they somehow hit harder then the 1 1/8 oz. 1500FPS 2 3/4" loads I shoot out of my old pump.

Yes... a 3" and 3 1/2" guns technically can be loaded hotter then a 2 3/4" load, but I challenge you to find good value shot shells at the store that fit this criteria. I have seen 1 3/8 1500FPS oz loads for 2 3/4 hulls. I challenge guys to find heavier loads then that & are not stupid expensive or completely impractical. Ha, imagine shooting a 2 oz load at 1500fps from your back in a goose blind!

So - to answer the OP's question - the only difference is how the two guns pattern the shot and how they feel in your arms. If the shotshells have the same velocity and pellet weight - they have exactly the same energy.

[catnthehat]

yup, bottom line to the question is exactly that, same load, same velocity.
The difference will be in mass of the gun , that will be the big difference.
For years I couldn't lift a 12 gauge gun, so sot lighter weight 20's and 28's , and lightweight 12's with light loads.

I still shoot lightweight am compared to most, and only the last few years have been able to shoot a full sized SxS 12 rated for steel .
I use lighter charges of steel however when I am shooting modern 12 gauge stuff at birds and shoot it better than the heavy charges.
Cat

[elkhunter11]

If the shotshells have the same velocity and pellet weight - they have exactly the same energy.

Yes each pellet will have exactly the same energy, but if you look at it another way, more pellets delivered to the target, means more total energy delivered to the target. So if the pattern is denser, the odds are that more pellets will hit the target, and more energy will be delivered to the target. Of course that is assuming that the shooter can place the pattern properly on the target.
I personally see a denser pattern as providing higher odds that more pellets will strike the vital zone when the pattern is properly placed. Unfortunately some people use more pellets, hoping that more pellets will make up for lesser shooting skills.

I shoot a lightweight gun for pheasant and upland birds, but I shoot standard payloads of shot, out of the sub gauges. That makes for an easier to carry shotgun, and manageable recoil.

[saskbooknut]

Since I don't believe in heavier lead shot loads than 1 ounce in 20 gauge, there is utterly no purpose to 3 inch 20 gauge shells in my world.

[VictoryXC]

On the topic of 20 gauge, what are brand/type of shells does everyone use for huns and sharp tails? Do you use the same for pheasants or something different? Thanks.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by VictoryXC

On the topic of 20 gauge, what are brand/type of shells does everyone use for huns and sharp tails? Do you use the same for pheasants or something different? Thanks.

I use the same Fiocchi Golden Pheasant loads for huns, sharptails and pheasant. I use #6 for pheasant and sharptails, but I sometimes use #8 for huns over pointing dogs. I would be using #7-1/2 for all of my hun shooting, and for most of my sharptails, but for some reason, my supplier can never get the #7-1/2 loads.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by VictoryXC

On the topic of 20 gauge, what are brand/type of shells does everyone use for huns and sharp tails? Do you use the same for pheasants or something different? Thanks.

Same gun for all , it all friends on what I am shooting that day
Cat

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Same gun for all , it all depends on what gun I am shooting that day, not the game I am after.
Cat

Corrected with an addition!
Cat

[VictoryXC]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I use the same Fiocchi Golden Pheasant loads for huns, sharptails and pheasant. I use #6 for pheasant and sharptails, but I sometimes use #8 for huns over pointing dogs. I would be using #7-1/2 for all of my hun shooting, and for most of my sharptails, but for some reason, my supplier can never get the #7-1/2 loads.

Thanks Elkhunter. Where do you buy the Fiocchi Golden Pheasant? I have emailed a few places, but have had no luck in sourcing them. Thanks.

[bobinthesky]

The one thing no one has mentioned yet ( I don't think anyway) is that the whole reason the 3 inch shell was invented was because someone wanted a heavier payload than a 2 3/4 inch shell could hold. There's only so much room for powder, wad and payload in a shell so if you want to go bigger then you need more room. It was the same many years ago when the 2 1/2 inch 12 g shell was standard and the 2 3/4 inch shell was invented. These heavier payload 3 inch shells have been advertised as "magnum load" even though the term is meaningless. You have to read what the weight of the payload and velocity is to get a feel for what the load actually does.
One other thing about the longer shot charge is that they do tend to increase stringing of the pattern.

[densa44]

Great post. I was always taught that the only vital zone on a bird is the head and neck. here is my experience:

"magnum shot shells" are an advertising gimmick to sell more expensive ammo. It also appeals to poor shooters.

Larger shot was sold to encourage sky busting

Finally the Ithica 10 gauge auto, and the Marlin goose gun fall into the above categories.

I hope all you fellows are ready to go, your dogs too.

BTW if you have a trained retriever you won't lose any cripples but will pick up lots that other people leave.

[elkivory]

When I have hunted ducks with a 20 gauge, I would only use 3" shells, pretty effective.

[catnthehat]

I have killed just as many ducks and geese with 2 3/4" ammo out of my 20 as 3".
I use the kent 3" because it is easily available, but I still use 2 3/4" ammo at times.
It all depends on what I have for steel.
I have some older 20 gauge lead ammo that is so heavily loaded it seems like a 12 gauge load.
Something the same as the 1oz 28 gauge loads- what fun they would be on a small framed upland gun- NOT!

Cat

[VictoryXC]

Cat, you mentioned "FWIW my favourite pheasant load these days is either 7/8 oz of 7 1/2 nickel out of a 28 with IC/MO......". Would you or do you use nickel out of 20g as well? Thanks.