Annealing in the Oven?

[qmurphy]

Ok , don’t crucify me too much for this post. I’m sure most of you who clicked into it already have me written off as an idiot.

And yes, I’ve heard the urban legend about the guy who put his casings in the oven...

Do you think it would work to submerge the bottom half of the casing in water (by setting the casings in a shell holder and dropping them in a pan of water), preheating the oven to 700F (mine doesn’t go that hot anyhow, doubt that there are many that actually do), and setting the pan of casings in for 10 min or so.

I figure as long as the bottom half of the casings are submerged in water, they are protected from being annealed. I would probably mark the casing necks with a tempil stick to make sure that they actually reached a temperature high enough for annealing.

Go ahead, call me an idiot. I’m a runner, and dreamed this up on a long run today...so I probably wasn’t thinking straight.

[Lefty-Canuck]

When you anneal you want to only anneal the neck and barely the shoulder area....to anneal you need to hit around 700deg f...quickly and then cool so in short you cannot effectively anneal in the oven...as far as I know.

You can actually see a colour change in the metal when the right temp point occurs, or you can use an indicator..if you anneal the whole case you will have a host of issues that could include case head separation or complete case rupture....DO NOT anneal the WHOLE case...

I use a propane torch a drill and an appropriate sized socket to spin the case...then drop it into a pan of water.

(Posted the above so if other try to anneal they know not to do the whole case)

LC

[u_cant_rope_the_wind]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

When you anneal you want to only anneal the neck and barely the shoulder area....to anneal you need to hit around 700deg f....so in short you cannot effectively anneal in the oven.

LC

x2

[catnthehat]

Take a look at what Lefty says and think about it for a bit.
For your brass to reach a high enough temp on the neck, the water will be boiling over!!
Roll you cases over a butane torch until you cannot comfortably hold them then place them on a towel.
Done- doesn't have to be any more complicated than that, I've been doing it that way since I was a kid and will be doing some Snider brass tonight in fact.
Cat

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Roll you cases over a butane torch until you cannot comfortably hold them then place them on a towel.
Done- doesn't have to be any more complicated than that, I've been doing it that way since I was a kid and will be doing some Snider brass tonight in fact.
Cat

I do the same yet toss mine into a bucket of water. I may move to the towel method now.

[huntin]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Take a look at what Lefty says and think about it for a bit.
For your brass to reach a high enough temp on the neck, the water will be boiling over!!
Roll you cases over a butane torch until you cannot comfortably hold them then place them on a towel.
Done- doesn't have to be any more complicated than that, I've been doing it that way since I was a kid and will be doing some Snider brass tonight in fact.
Cat

With neck sizing and annealing how much more life would one get out of the brass. also Cat is that a damp towel your putting the brass on after its been heated?

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by huntin

With neck sizing and annealing how much more life would one get out of the brass. also Cat is that a damp towel your putting the brass on after its been heated?

Nope, just a shop towel so they don't get bumped when i set them down.
With some of my cases it increases case life enormously, others, not so much.
With my BP cases that I bell and then crimp like my .577 Snider or hunting rounds in the 45/70's , I do it EVERY time, or the cases will only be good for a few firings before they crack, and at those prices one cannot afford it!
Cat

[huntin]

ok so is there an advantage to the rapid cooling by putting them in water or is that a myth? I've never played with annealing but I'm going to start.

[skidderman]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Take a look at what Lefty says and think about it for a bit.
For your brass to reach a high enough temp on the neck, the water will be boiling over!!
Roll you cases over a butane torch until you cannot comfortably hold them then place them on a towel.
Done- doesn't have to be any more complicated than that, I've been doing it that way since I was a kid and will be doing some Snider brass tonight in fact.
Cat

I did my first bunch the other day just as Cat said. Very easy to do and quick. Thanks Cat.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Take a look at what Lefty says and think about it for a bit.
For your brass to reach a high enough temp on the neck, the water will be boiling over!!
Roll you cases over a butane torch until you cannot comfortably hold them then place them on a towel.
Done- doesn't have to be any more complicated than that, I've been doing it that way since I was a kid and will be doing some Snider brass tonight in fact.
Cat

For really large diameter cases or someone with dexterity problems like arthritis, I find that holding the case lightly with the index finger and thumb of one hand ans spinning it with the other works perfect.
Cat

[gitrdun]

I acquired one of these Anneal-Rite units from Lee (duceman). It comes with Tempilaq and I anneal easily 100 casings in half hour. The casings do not need to be dropped in water. Very simple and slick. He is the Canadian stocking distributor.

http://www.cartridgeanneal.com/

[qmurphy]

I'm not talking about reaching annealing temp on the whole casing, so I understand you cautions, but I would only be heating the top half to 1/3 of the casing to the 700F, the water would provide sufficient cooling on the lower portion of the casing.

The water won't boil over, it will slowly steam off as it heats up, although I'm a little worried about the steam cooling the case necks as it rises. Go ahead, put a pan of water in your oven....it won't boil in 10min....not a chance.

Like I said, my oven won't actually hit 700F anyhow, so it wouldn't work anyway. Speaking in general terms, if my oven could get to that temperature any reason why this wouldn't be an option?

If the water was still in the pan, I'd be assured that the lower section of the case wasn't annealed. And if the temp stick mark had melted on the neck, I'd know the neck reached the 700F.

[Lefty-Canuck]

You want sudden focused heating and sudden cooling....so an oven does not fit the bill....focused heat with a torch is a good thing.

LC

[qmurphy]

I've done my share of googling, and my understanding is that heating and cooling rate does not matter, only that it actually reaches the temp required for annealing? Please correct me if I'm wrong. I think it might be a common myth that the heating and cooling needs to happen rapidly.

As far as simplicity, I can't see it getting any simpler than setting 200 casings in the oven for 10 min and then taking them out. Unless a guy had some fancy annealing set up, I can't imagine it being any simpler than that?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by qmurphy

I've done my share of googling, and my understanding is that heating and cooling rate does not matter, only that it actually reaches the temp required for annealing? Please correct me if I'm wrong. I think it might be a common myth that the heating and cooling needs to happen rapidly.

As far as simplicity, I can't see it getting any simpler than setting 200 casings in the oven for 10 min and then taking them out. Unless a guy had some fancy annealing set up, I can't imagine it being any simpler than that?

It is...and I described it, use a drill...socket and propane torch...drop into towel or pan.

I guess google trumps real people sharing real experiences...the major manufacturers who anneal prior to boxing match brass do not and would not do it the way you describe

They use an assembly line that runs the brass through a focused heat source

The idea with fast focused heat is you do not give the heat from the source a chance to heat the entire case through conduction.

LC

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I guess google trumps real people sharing real experiences...the major manufacturers who anneal prior to boxing match brass do not and would not do it the way you describe


LC

Actually all bras is annealed, it's just polished in an additional step by many companies, for no other reason that to look good.
These days however, it is very cool to have brass that was not polished after annealing!
I used to think the same and asked once , that was when I was told about the polishing step!
Cat

[marxman]

Originally Posted by qmurphy

I'm not talking about reaching annealing temp on the whole casing, so I understand you cautions, but I would only be heating the top half to 1/3 of the casing to the 700F, the water would provide sufficient cooling on the lower portion of the casing.

The water won't boil over, it will slowly steam off as it heats up, although I'm a little worried about the steam cooling the case necks as it rises. Go ahead, put a pan of water in your oven....it won't boil in 10min....not a chance.

Like I said, my oven won't actually hit 700F anyhow, so it wouldn't work anyway. Speaking in general terms, if my oven could get to that temperature any reason why this wouldn't be an option?

If the water was still in the pan, I'd be assured that the lower section of the case wasn't annealed. And if the temp stick mark had melted on the neck, I'd know the neck reached the 700F.

Copper conducts heat too fast you would never get it to 700 degrees with the water there you would need a torch. Cat never tires of repeating himself on this subject but nobody wants it to be that simple i have done it myself that way

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by marxman

Copper conducts heat too fast you would never get it to 700 degrees with the water there you would need a torch. Cat never tires of repeating himself on this subject but nobody wants it to be that simple i have done it myself that way

Quite often the stuff that is easy to do gets over complicated by those that do not believe it I guess .
It does get a bit tiring at times but of the question is asked I will answer it
Cat

[qmurphy]

Yeah Cat, that was my biggest fear, was brass pull too much of the heat from the water and would never actually reach the 700F. I'll let it die here.

Thanks for humoring me guys. My assumption was that if it worked, people would already be doing it.

[elkhunter11]

I use the tool pictured. Because it puts the flame all around the case at once, I don't need to turn the case. I just turn the torch slightly from side to side..

[Salavee]

Back off a bit on the running and read up or Google cartridge brass annealing. There is a correct procedure for annealing cartridge brass and it doesn't involve an oven. It's actually simpler than your (real bad) oven idea. Now, .. back to the track .