Suncor losses on the random testing case

[pikergolf]

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/suncor-...ules-1.1058084

[jaylow?]

oh well, all the coke heads have nothing to worry about come 1st day of shift. i didnt think this would pass. what a ton of crap this has turned up on site.

[dale7637]

I wish it would have flown.

I don't care for working next to jonny meth head.

[Selkirk]

.
I bet Suncor will appeal ... it's not over until the Supreme Court sings.

TF

[catnthehat]

I got a notice ye4sterday saying a contractor was going to honour the testing Jan.1 for Suncor- looks like they jumped the gun a bit!
The Alberta building Trades already do random testig throough the Rapid Site access program, but it's a volluntary program, if a member is not enrolled in it they must do a pre-access test which many try to screw around with .
I know you can fake the urine test up , but it's not too easy to do.
A swab test however only goes back about 15 hours or so, and is a better altternative IMO.

Suncor has pre-access testing as well for their employees, but only if a person has beem involved in an incident will they be subject to random drug testing.

Personally I am in favour as long as it is dealt out fairly and with ALL employees- executive staff included- some people say it's against their human rights, but the people that they work with have rights as well.

I also know that people figure what theye do on their own time is their own business, but if it affects what they do on the job, that is everybody;s business that they are around.
Weather or not the company cares about worker safety and only wants to keep their costs down or they actually want to have workers in a sfaer inviroment is not the issue, the bottom line is that they want to try and keep drugs off the site the best way they can - be they perscription or illegal.

Of course there is always the issue of marijuana being called non addictive, mind altering, etc. and people figuring it should not be illegal.
That's another topic however......
Cat

[brownbomber]

Wouldn't have had issue with it. Don't do drugs won't be a issue. Especially the drugs like coke meth etc that leave the system quickly.

[Ricktye]

Not only that, but do you think any employer really wants to hire/employ someone who is a flagrant lawbreaker? If they'll break the drug law and say testing violates their rights, will they have respect for any other statutes or company rules?

R...

Originally Posted by dale7637

I wish it would have flown.

I don't care for working next to jonny meth head.

[Don Andersen]

How about the risk to the community in general when druggies install high pressure equipment everywhere?
Anyone remember the Exon Valdez? A drunk Captian!!

Don

[thunderheart]

personally if i worked like some of you guys work where you have to trust someone else with your saftey .. i would really want the drug tests ..
again it seems that the one that uses has more rights than clean guys .. I have worked alone for years so that is good. In my ignorance i had always assumed that the random tests were already in place. why would you not want the tests if you are clean .. GAWD its your own safety..personally i think that its a dangerous job you guys have .. accidents happen i know but i would sure want to be able to go home at the end of the day.

makes no sense at all to say " ole stoney george just killed kenny clean.. was kenny's fault though....he should have watched out for stoney george .. silly kenny"



just the ramblings of grateful guy that works alone......

[crazyfish]

I have no issues with the whole drug test thing because I'm clean ! It really does amaze me how many people in the trades have issues that affect others in the work environment and feel that it's their right to ! Another facet of society feeling " entitled " and F the rest !

[FishingMOM]

Originally Posted by TriggerFinger

.
I bet Suncor will appeal ... it's not over until the Supreme Court sings.

A similar case involving the same union and Irving Pulp and Paper Ltd. in New Brunswick is to go before the Supreme Court of Canada on Dec. 7.

you know the supreme court will drag out the decision, but we will get an answer sooner than later.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I got a notice ye4sterday saying a contractor was going to honour the testing Jan.1 for Suncor- looks like they jumped the gun a bit!
The Alberta building Trades already do random testig throough the Rapid Site access program, but it's a volluntary program, if a member is not enrolled in it they must do a pre-access test which many try to screw around with .
I know you can fake the urine test up , but it's not too easy to do.
A swab test however only goes back about 15 hours or so, and is a better altternative IMO.

Suncor has pre-access testing as well for their employees, but only if a person has beem involved in an incident will they be subject to random drug testing.

Personally I am in favour as long as it is dealt out fairly and with ALL employees- executive staff included- some people say it's against their human rights, but the people that they work with have rights as well.

I also know that people figure what theye do on their own time is their own business, but if it affects what they do on the job, that is everybody;s business that they are around.
Weather or not the company cares about worker safety and only wants to keep their costs down or they actually want to have workers in a sfaer inviroment is not the issue, the bottom line is that they want to try and keep drugs off the site the best way they can - be they perscription or illegal.

Of course there is always the issue of marijuana being called non addictive, mind altering, etc. and people figuring it should not be illegal.
That's another topic however......
Cat

People forget it's a high hazard workplace. My experience is people who do drugs tend to have other issues as well .

Grizz

[score]

There should be drug testing period. There are so many safety measures in place and to protest this one is ridiculous. People want to claim this to be against the druggies rights. It is against my rights and the rights of my family to be at peril because of some wacked out druggie impaired by any substance legal or not.

[rugatika]

I have to wonder what will happen when someone on drugs causes an accident (especially if they injure someone else) on a Suncor site? Will Suncor now be able to skirt any legal issues for not providing a safe work place??

[1899b]

3 deaths since 2000 on Suncor site were related to drug and alcohol use.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...njunction.html

[Classic_Cool]

This is ridiculous.

Now the last time we argued about this, some actually defended a person's right to medical privacy. And while I can see where they're coming from on that point, the reality is that low-wage warehouse jockies are gawking at your medical records as we speak. I know because I've been one. It's something we kinda have to live with.

And it strikes me as 30 shades of stupid, that people are fine with scheduled testing, but throw a fit when they can't "prepare" for it. I really hope the supreme court does something about this.

[dale7637]

I also hope that the supreme court does something with this.

I havent been in the patch as long as some, but i have seen some real hillbilly crap happen out there. Its getting better every year, but we still have some individuals that feel it is their right to get high the night before shift, or worse.

I have a right to go out to work, do my job, get paid and go home. I DONT feel that i have to put up with a substance abuser putting my safety at risk.

I dont care if johny methhead wants to get high before work, as long as he is working alone. These dirtbags are putting everyone around them at risk. I dont have any patience for that.

My guys know that i have a zero tolerance stance on booze/drugs and work. There is no warning, there is no 3 strike program with me. It happens once and done.

I know that legally i have to go through the proper steps, but i will be damned if i will. I would fight that one till the day i die.

[Classic_Cool]

I cannot believe the fools who are commenting about testing making the workplace safer. Maybe you should come into my house as well and tell me how to live my life and raise my kids according to your skewed realities! Let us get this straight, this is not making the workplace safer! I agree with testing for impairment while at work but testing for the presence of drugs and alcohol in one's system is ridiculous! You same people who agree with random drug testing for the presence of illicit drugs in one's system are also likely against gay marriage,and oppose pro-choice, but also think government has no right to meddle in the economy! I am so sick of the hypocrisy of the conservative movement and their attempts to legislate morality and try to force me to conform to their warped views in the belief that they are actually correct in their opinions! In the immortal words of Voltaire, "Although I may not agree with your opinions, I would fight to my death for your right to express them!". Maybe you people who are so in favour of such a ludicrous program like random drug testing should start to question your motives. Do you really believe these programs actually make the workplace safer (it is a proven statistical fact they do not), or are you just more interested in telling others how to live their lives according to your own ethnocentric hypocrisy!

I pulled this comment off the article. Gee I wonder if he partakes?

Last night I was reading someone's blog. She was outraged at seeing a man and woman lighting up at a red light with a 2 year old child in the back seat. And she actually gave a thumbs up to people doing what they want when it doesn't hurt someone else, so she was fairly even-handed in her opinion.

Naturally though, one of the few comments was some doofis who called her by the wrong name and proceeded to rant about how that's "none of your business". I wanted to break something at reading that The people mentioned in the article were not only endangering themselves and other drivers but they were obviously exposing a toddler to pot smoke. I think most people agree that's a bad thing. "None of our business" though.

The whole criminal rights thing is getting so out of proportion.

[Rock Doctor]

Originally Posted by score

There should be drug testing period. There are so many safety measures in place and to protest this one is ridiculous. People want to claim this to be against the druggies rights. It is against my rights and the rights of my family to be at peril because of some wacked out druggie impaired by any substance legal or not.

I just heard the other day that Suncor is considering banning "Energy Drinks" (Red Bull, Monster, Rock Star, ect) on their sites, or maybe some of their sites. Some guys are "using" them to help stay awake and work longer hours. Then the guys that are "using" energy drinks pointed out that it's no different than Coffee, so now Suncor might be planning to ban Coffee on sites as well.
Drugs are drugs I guess
Monster Energy Drink has been cited in 5 deaths, including a 14yr old girl. Maybe even the odd Heart Attack as well.
Some of the Bush Camps in the area I work have banned pop, like Coca-Cola, Pepsi, ect.

RD

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

only if a person has beem involved in an incident will they be subject to random drug testing.

Then it's not random testing. It's for cause testing. They can also test if they suspect someone is under the influence. There doesn't need to be an accident. This is still allowed.

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Personally I am in favour as long as it is dealt out fairly and with ALL employees- executive staff included- some people say it's against their human rights, but the people that they work with have rights as well.

But remember, testing isn't designed to be a part of the "war on drugs". The intent is not to ensure that no employees ever use drugs or alcohol. It's to ensure there is workplace safety and that no one is physically injured because of an employee under the influence. Testing of ALL employees isn't necessary to ensure that. A stoned secretary or accountant or VP in head office creates little risk (maybe to the shareholders, but not to employee's physical safety). That's why many companies designate "safety sensitive positions" and only test them.

[igorot]

Originally Posted by rugatika

I have to wonder what will happen when someone on drugs causes an accident (especially if they injure someone else) on a Suncor site? Will Suncor now be able to skirt any legal issues for not providing a safe work place??

I think the issue here is the "random test", but since Suncor has a mandatory drug test on their hiring process, shows that they are still trying to have a safer work place. I stayed in their Firebag site for a year and still have cases where they caught somebody in posession of illegal drugs. There was case before I was there where drug pusher was caught but was tested negative of drugs. He was there for 6 month employed by one of the sub contractors. The RC came to pick him and got charge. This was relayed to me by immediate supervisor.

For me , if you dont want rules why bother to go, as simple as that.

[crazyfish]

Energy drinks !!!!!!!! They are bad for you ! Young guy working on our site this year for a different company colapsed and went into a seizure ! After a trip to the hospital , complete site evac. Due to man down etc . It was discovered that his breakfast and coffee break had been a total of 4 energy drinks in 3 hours and it almost killed him !

Our safety topic of the week was on the energy drinks , the biggest issue is they. Classify themselves as a health supplement and are therefor exempt from the regulations that fall on soda pop for caffein amounts ! Soda is limited to 71 mg caffeine per 12 fl/oz . Some energy drinks had as much as 400 mg per 12 fl/oz ! Caffeine overdose is a huge risk !

Drug use is a huge issue on most sites , I'm a sipervisor and i know that people do it during work hours , catching in the act is tough to do ,and can't believe the number of people that will even try to help a guy hide that fact after an incident has occurred ! Drugs have no buisiness being on the work site , and the sooner some people start to te it the better off the rest of us will be !

I believe that the basis behind the Suncor idea to random test was ---- if you show up for work in the morning and tell us that you are fit for duty , then we should be able to "test" that fact . The long term idea behind it being that people will start to self regulate themselves and realize that if they might not be in "fit for duty shape " that they would not come in and risk losing their job .

[score]

Originally Posted by Rock Doctor

I just heard the other day that Suncor is considering banning "Energy Drinks" (Red Bull, Monster, Rock Star, ect) on their sites, or maybe some of their sites. Some guys are "using" them to help stay awake and work longer hours. Then the guys that are "using" energy drinks pointed out that it's no different than Coffee, so now Suncor might be planning to ban Coffee on sites as well.
Drugs are drugs I guess
Monster Energy Drink has been cited in 5 deaths, including a 14yr old girl. Maybe even the odd Heart Attack as well.
Some of the Bush Camps in the area I work have banned pop, like Coca-Cola, Pepsi, ect.

RD

I was really talking about illegal drugs and prescription drug abuse, but sure, being over-tired is a problem as well. Coffee and pop?

[Rock Doctor]

Originally Posted by crazyfish

Energy drinks !!!!!!!! They are bad for you ! Young guy working on our site this year for a different company colapsed and went into a seizure ! After a trip to the hospital , complete site evac. Due to man down etc . It was discovered that his breakfast and coffee break had been a total of 4 energy drinks in 3 hours and it almost killed him !

Our safety topic of the week was on the energy drinks , the biggest issue is they. Classify themselves as a health supplement and are therefor exempt from the regulations that fall on soda pop for caffein amounts ! Soda is limited to 71 mg caffeine per 12 fl/oz . Some energy drinks had as much as 400 mg per 12 fl/oz ! Caffeine overdose is a huge risk !

Drug use is a huge issue on most sites , I'm a sipervisor and i know that people do it during work hours , catching in the act is tough to do ,and can't believe the number of people that will even try to help a guy hide that fact after an incident has occurred ! Drugs have no buisiness being on the work site , and the sooner some people start to te it the better off the rest of us will be !

I believe that the basis behind the Suncor idea to random test was ---- if you show up for work in the morning and tell us that you are fit for duty , then we should be able to "test" that fact . The long term idea behind it being that people will start to self regulate themselves and realize that if they might not be in "fit for duty shape " that they would not come in and risk losing their job .

Yes, it's getting bad.
Some of those Coffee drinks like Double Doubles can be almost 200mg of caffeine per 3 fl oz
Some of the drinks I see guys pounding back won't make a spoon stand up, it just melts the spoon. Very hard to control when guys are making their own drinks.

RD

[Rock Doctor]

Originally Posted by score

I was really talking about illegal drugs and prescription drug abuse, but sure, being over-tired is a problem as well. Coffee and pop?

I can not confirm the coffee plans, but have been told by guys staying in the camps around here that some pop is no longer available. I don't have any reason to visit those camps, so can't say I have first hand info on it. Just what I was told.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Then it's not random testing. It's for cause testing. They can also test if they suspect someone is under the influence. There doesn't need to be an accident. This is still allowed.



But remember, testing isn't designed to be a part of the "war on drugs". The intent is not to ensure that no employees ever use drugs or alcohol. It's to ensure there is workplace safety and that no one is physically injured because of an employee under the influence. Testing of ALL employees isn't necessary to ensure that. A stoned secretary or accountant or VP in head office creates little risk (maybe to the shareholders, but not to employee's physical safety). That's why many companies designate "safety sensitive positions" and only test them.

You misunderstood my post.

There is a pre-access drug test for Suncor employees, that is mandatory
The only other time a person would be tested is if there were a post incident or just cause test done.
If the person tested positive they would ave to go to a program and be subject to a certain number of random tests being part of the program, but ONLYthen.
Cat

[New Hunter Okotoks]

Originally Posted by Rock Doctor

Yes, it's getting bad.

Some of the drinks I see guys pounding back won't make a spoon stand up, it just melts the spoon. Very hard to control when guys are making their own drinks.

RD

Sounds like a Coffee Sandwich!!

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

You misunderstood my post.

There is a pre-access drug test for Suncor employees, that is mandatory
The only other time a person would be tested is if there were a post incident or just cause test done.
If the person tested positive they would ave to go to a program and be subject to a certain number of random tests being part of the program, but ONLYthen.
Cat

ahhh, ok. So post-cause then. I understand what you meant now.

[dantonsen]

people do drugs anyways..... and you would be suprised what companys pay for, most only pay for marijuana and opiates on tests. Alot of companys wont pay for the cocaine and amphetamine results.

It would be interesting to see how many incidents result from fatigue and what suncor and syncrude dub 'the compressed work week' which they use to save money on overtime

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by dantonsen

people do drugs anyways..... and you would be suprised what companys pay for, most only pay for marijuana and opiates on tests. Alot of companys wont pay for the cocaine and amphetamine results.

It would be interesting to see how many incidents result from fatigue and what suncor and syncrude dub 'the compressed work week' which they use to save money on overtime

The tests for the Alberta Building Trades is a five panel test, much more than just opiates and Marijuana.
Cat