I made a very bad mistake

[mattthegorby]

Originally Posted by Ariu

There are 100's of pic's here in this forum, photos of hunters posing proudly in front of a killed animal. In a lot of these photos there is no tag to be seen, although the law is clear. The animal has to be tagged immediately after the kill.
No comments about that, only congrats. Some of these photos are of the members who demand death penalty for whoever has the courage to admit their mistake.

I do not think that is equivalent, though I am empathetic with both the posters who have had the courage to throw their stories out on a public forum!

I have a little experience in bylaw enforcement and it is important to consider the intent of both the bylaw and individual making the offence when making the decision to hold someone accountable.

While I do not know, I would assume the intent of immediate tagging is to prevent people from hauling out an animal and seeing if they can slip out of the woods without using their tag. Snapping some quick pics with your phone before digging out your tag and immediately tagging animal may technically be a violation, but it is really unlikely, in my mind, that anyone would care as you have not started processing the animal.

Walking unaccompanied to a blind and not having the proper tag are definite violations of the regulations that violate the intents to stop poaching and restrict access to out of province hunters. That being said, I do not think the intent of either of the guys above was nefarious and I hope that the powers that be take this into consideration.

An analogy would be running a stop sign vs. going 5 km over the speed limit. Technically both violations, but handled by officers much differently.

[CBintheNorth]

5 pages. Wow, what a success.
Most figured out that the OP was a troll after the first page and stopped.
It's amazing the skill some people have in creating a thread that self-fuels, right down to the click-bait title.
Nevertheless, someone always inadvertantly learns something in these threads...

[mattthegorby]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

5 pages. Wow, what a success.
Most figured out that the OP was a troll after the first page and stopped.
It's amazing the skill some people have in creating a thread that self-fuels, right down to the click-bait title.
Nevertheless, someone always inadvertantly learns something in these threads...

One can look at it as trolling, or look at it as trying to get a good debate/argument/discussion going. Now if you'll excuse me, I am going to check for any new 6.5 CM threads.

[urban rednek]

Originally Posted by Habfan

Agreed. A Strathcona WT Lisence is required in the area of 248 they were in. Neither had that special lisence. Looking for Deer is hunting as defined in the Regs. Guilty and Guilty.

You seem to be confident that this statement is correct, so I will ask you directly: as per my previous posts (#39 & #42) in this thread, would you be able to point out the pertinent section/wording in the 2018 Alberta Hunting Regulations that corroborates this?
I looked, I can't find it, I even downloaded the latest .pdf version of the 2018 Regs from the government website... still not seeing it.

FWIW- I think AEP messed up the wording during editing, same as some other regulations that have been discussed on this forum. The law has to be interpreted the way it is written, not how it used to be written. (eg. "May harvest within Strathcona County" is not the same as "Required to harvest within Strathcona County")

Disclaimer- this based on interpretation of the OP's statement and subsequent clarifications, if his statements are false or misleading, all bets are off.

[Habfan]

Originally Posted by urban rednek

You seem to be confident that this statement is correct, so I will ask you directly: as per my previous posts (#39 & #42) in this thread, would you be able to point out the pertinent section/wording in the 2018 Alberta Hunting Regulations that corroborates this?
I looked, I can't find it, I even downloaded the latest .pdf version of the 2018 Regs from the government website... still not seeing it.

FWIW- I think AEP messed up the wording during editing, same as some other regulations that have been discussed on this forum. The law has to be interpreted the way it is written, not how it used to be written. (eg. "May harvest within Strathcona County" is not the same as "Required to harvest within Strathcona County")

Disclaimer- this based on interpretation of the OP's statement and subsequent clarifications, if his statements are false or misleading, all bets are off.

It was written in the ADDITIONAL Hunting Opportunities. You were able to hunt antlerless either species but I believed that meant supplemental tags. Or 3 deer with a Strathcona tag. I haven’t hunted it for a while but my buddies still do and never mentioned any changes. I don’t have the new regs handy. Regardless, you can’t tell a game warden you were just looking for deer, with a bow in your hand. That won’t go well in court. Just looked at Regs. It on page 47, they took out the antlerless part though.

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by Habfan

It was written in the ADDITIONAL Hunting Opportunities. You were able to hunt antlerless either species but I believed that meant supplemental tags. Or 3 deer with a Strathcona tag. I haven’t hunted it for a while but my buddies still do and never mentioned any changes. I don’t have the new regs handy. Regardless, you can’t tell a game warden you were just looking for deer, with a bow in your hand. That won’t go well in court. Just looked at Regs. It on page 47, they took out the antlerless part though.

In order to hunt under the authority of the Strathcona tags you need to be in possession of said tags, and be in the prescribed areas. If hunting under the authority of those tags you can hunt with bow, muzzle loader, or shotgun.
That is not to say you can't hunt other legal species within Strathcona for which a tag is valid...you just need to hunt with a bow and arrow only.

With a bow & arrow in the Strathcona part of WMU 248 (and assuming you are eligible to hold all the tags) you could legally harvest your general moose, general elk, general whitetail, general mule deer, antlerless deer 212 & 248 (2 tags), and Strathcona deer (3 tags).
The only advantage to the Strathcona tags is that you can also use a shotgun or muzzle loader, but only in the Strathcona area of WMU 248.

[Habfan]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

In order to hunt under the authority of the Strathcona tags you need to be in possession of said tags, and be in the prescribed areas. If hunting under the authority of those tags you can hunt with bow, muzzle loader, or shotgun.
That is not to say you can't hunt other legal species within Strathcona for which a tag is valid...you just need to hunt with a bow and arrow only.

With a bow & arrow in the Strathcona part of WMU 248 (and assuming you are eligible to hold all the tags) you could legally harvest your general moose, general elk, general whitetail, general mule deer, antlerless deer 212 & 248 (2 tags), and Strathcona deer (3 tags).
The only advantage to the Strathcona tags is that you can also use a shotgun or muzzle loader, but only in the Strathcona area of WMU 248.

Thanks !

[urban rednek]

Originally Posted by Habfan

It was written in the ADDITIONAL Hunting Opportunities. You were able to hunt antlerless either species but I believed that meant supplemental tags. Or 3 deer with a Strathcona tag. I haven’t hunted it for a while but my buddies still do and never mentioned any changes. I don’t have the new regs handy. Regardless, you can’t tell a game warden you were just looking for deer, with a bow in your hand. That won’t go well in court. Just looked at Regs. It on page 47, they took out the antlerless part though.

Thanks for the reply. I'm still not seeing the reason for the charges as described by the OP.
I'm in agreement with CBintheNorth; the regulations, as written, do not require you to have "Strathcona White-Tailed Deer License" to hunt white-tailed deer in the Strathcona County portion of WMU 248. As for the conversation between the OP and the F&W officer: what was said is likely more of a problem than what was done.

[Roderek]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Some people would have us believe that the regulations are so complicated, that nobody can understand or obey them. Oddly enough, I have managed to hunt for over 45 years in multiple provinces and states with no issues. If you take the time to read and obey the regulations, you can avoid most issues.

And if you can't be bothered to read and obey the regulations, then don't blame other people when you are charged and convicted of a violation.

I completely disagree with you that the regulations are easy to understand, especially if you have no prior knowledge to hunting, most of it may as well be written in another language. It takes a very long time for someone with no knowledge of the sport to figure out what the regulations are talking about or how to interpret them.

To this point, there have been multiple threads over the past few years of people asking if someone can tag a long on a hunt without a licence. Opinions on this vary depending on the person answering, and from peoples experiences it almost seems like F&W don’t know either. If it was easy to understand this wouldn’t keep coming up.

[Ariu]

Originally Posted by mattthegorby

I do not think that is equivalent, though I am empathetic with both the posters who have had the courage to throw their stories out on a public forum!

I have a little experience in bylaw enforcement and it is important to consider the intent of both the bylaw and individual making the offence when making the decision to hold someone accountable.

While I do not know, I would assume the intent of immediate tagging is to prevent people from hauling out an animal and seeing if they can slip out of the woods without using their tag. Snapping some quick pics with your phone before digging out your tag and immediately tagging animal may technically be a violation, but it is really unlikely, in my mind, that anyone would care as you have not started processing the animal.

Walking unaccompanied to a blind and not having the proper tag are definite violations of the regulations that violate the intents to stop poaching and restrict access to out of province hunters. That being said, I do not think the intent of either of the guys above was nefarious and I hope that the powers that be take this into consideration.

An analogy would be running a stop sign vs. going 5 km over the speed limit. Technically both violations, but handled by officers much differently.

I totally agree. However, what I wanted to point out is that hunting is not similar to the work of a CNC machine. Terrain, weather, rules, excitement, rush and other human and non human factors can make anyone to do honest mistakes and the guys here had the courage to admit them.
Now, some understanding with some advice will do much more good to these guys (and any other reader for that matter) as to those elitist, arrogant discussions.

[abhunter8]

Originally Posted by JimW55

Plead not guilty, attach the regs as an exhibit and tell the judge Fish & Wildlife don’t know what there talking about and that you want full compensation for the hardship.

This ^. From the information you gave, there is no offense. F & W officer is mistaken. General wt season is open and if you had a gamebird license you are allowed to be in there hunting gamebirds with your bow.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Roderek

I completely disagree with you that the regulations are easy to understand, especially if you have no prior knowledge to hunting, most of it may as well be written in another language. It takes a very long time for someone with no knowledge of the sport to figure out what the regulations are talking about or how to interpret them.

To this point, there have been multiple threads over the past few years of people asking if someone can tag a long on a hunt without a licence. Opinions on this vary depending on the person answering, and from peoples experiences it almost seems like F&W don’t know either. If it was easy to understand this wouldn’t keep coming up.

Yes I see your point. I see even seasoned hunters perplexed and unsure with wording of the regs. To be new to the sport it certainly would be frustrating.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Roderek

I completely disagree with you that the regulations are easy to understand, especially if you have no prior knowledge to hunting, most of it may as well be written in another language. It takes a very long time for someone with no knowledge of the sport to figure out what the regulations are talking about or how to interpret them.

To this point, there have been multiple threads over the past few years of people asking if someone can tag a long on a hunt without a licence. Opinions on this vary depending on the person answering, and from peoples experiences it almost seems like F&W don’t know either. If it was easy to understand this wouldn’t keep coming up.

The reason that many people do not understand the regulations, is that they haven't bothered to make an effort to learn them. Many people have never read the hunting guide, and have no idea how to even find the Wildlife Act. I take out new hunters on a regular basis, and they seem to figure out the regulations just fine, because I won't take them out if they don't make the effort.

[kritz]

Originally Posted by Birchcraft

Seems a little ridiculous considering you didn't actually get anything, a warning would more than suffice. Can people get charges laid for looking at deer without a licence. You didn't even do something that you werent aware was illegal. Last time I checked not doing illegal stuff was A-Ok.

What The

It is all about intent, and they can prove intent here in this case, and likewise in most

In this case he was doing something that was illegal. just because at this time he did not get anything...... why am I typing this is wrong

[R3illy]

Originally Posted by abhunter8

This ^. From the information you gave, there is no offense. F & W officer is mistaken. General wt season is open and if you had a gamebird license you are allowed to be in there hunting gamebirds with your bow.

Is it more likely that f&w has got the charges completely wrong or that the op had no clue where he was and didnt have the right tags?

There seems to be a lot of people defending a guy whos been charged with a serious crime. Im quire surprised by this.

[KegRiver]

Isn't it time to let this horse rest in peace.

[Darkerwhite]

I think that this thread has been a really good read so far. But this is a bit perplexing for me.

Hunter_spec

"In the mean time,the land owner had a guy shoot a deer right in front of his house last year. He had the plate number and the wildlife officers didn’t do anything about."

How do you know that the officer did nothing? Was it called in? In order for something to be investigated it needs to start somewhere.

Back to the OP. The court will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you were not within the regulations. If it is In the regulations which I would have to re read the specific wording of the 248 additional opportunities licences and the specific area you were within. I'm not familiar with the cooking lake area. But semi familiar with the courts, he officer can use what you said against you. If you admitted to deer hunting to her she should have notes and will explain that on the stand. Along with any other notes about how she determined you were hunting and what. You will not have to take the stand unless you choose. This is your right to not have to provide evidence against you unless you wish to stand on the stand.

I support the FW guys without question however I tho k there were some errors on both ends. Specifically with your friend getting a ticket. Unless I miss understand the general tag not being valid in 248 which I thought it was. With a bow license in season. I think you received the ticket for admitting to deer hunting without license. Will still be worth going to court as it is your right and you will get to express your side if convicted and ask for reduced fine and continued hunting allowance.

Good luck. Some reading for me to do now..

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by R3illy

There seems to be a lot of people defending a guy whos been charged with a serious crime. Im quire surprised by this.

It's not a serious crime, hence the pretty casual debate, even if the OP was trolling.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Rackmastr

It's not a serious crime, hence the pretty casual debate, even if the OP was trolling.

Lol x 2...... armed robbery and your dad walking by himself to a tree stand are on other ends of the spectrum.

[Positrac]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Lol x 2...... armed robbery and your dad walking by himself to a tree stand are on other ends of the spectrum.

You’re all confused Moose...This train wreck didn’t start with dad walking to his tree stand alone. That was another train wreck...

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Positrac

You’re all confused Moose...This train wreck didn’t start with dad walking to his tree stand alone. That was another train wreck...

Oh man your right! That was the other guy! My bad

[Positrac]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Oh man your right! That was the other guy! My bad

This guy went bow hunting for birds and got dinged along with his buddy for not having the proper licences or something along those lines, posted the poorly described encounter with a nice CO lady and then never returned to explain things...

...or maybe I’m confused? Doesn’t really matter either way...

[Darkerwhite]

Originally Posted by Positrac

This guy went bow hunting for birds and got dinged along with his buddy for not having the proper licences or something along those lines, posted the poorly described encounter with a nice CO lady and then never returned to explain things...

...or maybe I’m confused? Doesn’t really matter either way...

But it did start a fairly good discussion on whether or not a general wt tag was valid in 248. Which seems why the ops friend got a ticket.

[CrisPbacon]

I have no remorse for those who break or bend the rules and get caught. If you don't understand the regulations then call Alberta Relm or your local F&W office to verify a regulation BEFORE you embark on a hunt. To not verify a regulation is unethical and irresponsible.