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02-21-2018, 09:32 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 765
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AGPAC Recommendations
Anyone know all the members of AGPAC and how they voted on these 8 resolutions:
1. That AGPAC recommend to AEP that Antlered Mule Deer no longer be included as an eligible animal for Landowner Special License.
2. That AGPAC recommend to AEP that Non-Resident Canadians no longer be eligible to apply for Special License Draws.
3. That AGPAC recommend to AEP that new partnership licenses be created for Non-Resident Canadians for Antlered Mule Deer, Antlered Elk and Trophy Antelope.
4. That AGPAC recommend to AEP that dedicated archery Special License Draws be created when archery harvest in a Wildlife Management Unit (WMU) exceeds 15% of allowable harvest in that WMU.
5. That AGPAC recommend to AEP that big game be allocated as a proportion of hunting opportunity (Outfitter Guide Allocations held and Special License Quotas available) instead of harvest, for those animal classes and WMU’s on Special License Draw. For animal classes and WMU’s under general license seasons, allocation will continue to be calculated as a proportion of harvest.
6. That AGPAC recommend to AEP that the proportion of big game hunting opportunity allocated to the outfitted hunting industry be standardized across Alberta’s WMU’s as follows: Antlered Moose, Antlered Mule Deer, Antlered Elk, Antlered Whitetail Deer and Trophy Antelope – 10%. Trophy Bighorn – 20%. Cougar – 20%. Black Bear – no restriction.
7. That AGPAC recommend to AEP that the spatial scale at which hunting opportunity is managed be standardized as the WMU for both recreational and outfitted hunters.
8. That AGPAC recommend to AEP that once an approved policy is in place, that it be implemented in a phased approach to minimize disruption to affected business operations within the outfitted hunting industry.
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02-21-2018, 01:05 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North of Owlseye, like I said.
Posts: 133
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This is a lot to process and is couched in difficult language. What does the 'spatial' thing mean?
Looks like residents are in for another royal screwin' .
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Eat prey, love it.
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02-21-2018, 03:58 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,909
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Yep
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Never say "Whoa" in a mud hole.
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02-21-2018, 04:23 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLH
5. That AGPAC recommend to AEP that big game be allocated as a proportion of hunting opportunity (Outfitter Guide Allocations held and Special License Quotas available) instead of harvest, for those animal classes and WMU’s on Special License Draw. For animal classes and WMU’s under general license seasons, allocation will continue to be calculated as a proportion of harvest.
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So the outfitting industry will now be assured of 10% of all the draw tags in every WMU. I wonder what process they will use to sell off all the new tag allotments.
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02-21-2018, 04:26 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North of Owlseye
This is a lot to process and is couched in difficult language. What does the 'spatial' thing mean?
Looks like residents are in for another royal screwin' .
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Allocations limited to the 10% rule were calculated on Management areas (not sure of the proper name for them) that encompassed many WMU's in some cases. This "averaging" allowed for the outfitters to hold a disproportionate # of tags in a desirable WMU by averaging out the number against another WMU in the management area. The "spatial" thing means that the allocations will be looked at by WMU rather than the larger area.
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02-21-2018, 04:47 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North of Owlseye
This is a lot to process and is couched in difficult language. What does the 'spatial' thing mean?
Looks like residents are in for another royal screwin' .
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Please elaborate, good chance i'm missing something but I don't see cause for outrage. With that being said I'd probably be ****ed if I was an landowner.
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02-21-2018, 05:23 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk63
Please elaborate, good chance i'm missing something but I don't see cause for outrage. With that being said I'd probably be ****ed if I was an landowner.
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Well for one it screws over the Landowners and Non-resident Canadians and favors the Non-Resident hunter. Residents in a few WMU's that were hard hit by the outfitting industry will see some relief, but the net effect is that a far greater proportion of our game harvest will be going out of the country to those with the ability to pay because of the allocation on basis of opportunity rather than harvest - the harvest goals will remain unchanged but given the greater success rates of the professional hunters over the general populace the allowable harvest for the resident hunter will decrease overall while the outfitting industry harvest will increase.
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02-21-2018, 07:27 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk63
Please elaborate, good chance i'm missing something but I don't see cause for outrage. With that being said I'd probably be ****ed if I was an landowner.
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Can't you just see the landowners welcoming all the new antlered mule hunters onto their land after many of them helped to make sure the land owner could not hunt them himself ..........few more townships of access.....denied
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02-21-2018, 07:43 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCLightning
Well for one it screws over the Landowners and Non-resident Canadians and favors the Non-Resident hunter. Residents in a few WMU's that were hard hit by the outfitting industry will see some relief, but the net effect is that a far greater proportion of our game harvest will be going out of the country to those with the ability to pay because of the allocation on basis of opportunity rather than harvest - the harvest goals will remain unchanged but given the greater success rates of the professional hunters over the general populace the allowable harvest for the resident hunter will decrease overall while the outfitting industry harvest will increase.
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How does it screw your bet the landowner?
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02-21-2018, 08:22 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertadave
Yep
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Is it a secret?
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02-21-2018, 08:26 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boah
How does it screw your bet the landowner?
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I meant how does it screw the landowner?
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02-21-2018, 08:26 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobalong
Can't you just see the landowners welcoming all the new antlered mule hunters onto their land after many of them helped to make sure the land owner could not hunt them himself ..........few more townships of access.....denied
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I don't think any of this is written in stone yet by any means. It's not too late to make your views known.
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02-21-2018, 08:34 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk63
Please elaborate, good chance i'm missing something but I don't see cause for outrage. With that being said I'd probably be ****ed if I was an landowner.
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Bobalong's post no. 8 above explains it perfectly.
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02-21-2018, 08:49 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobalong
Can't you just see the landowners welcoming all the new antlered mule hunters onto their land after many of them helped to make sure the land owner could not hunt them himself ..........few more townships of access.....denied
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Probably the same amount of access denied already because the landowner has a tag himself.
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02-21-2018, 09:17 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boah
Probably the same amount of access denied already because the landowner has a tag himself.
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Have you ever hunted private land or even hunted before? The Landowner tags needed to have sort of limitations put on them but to completely eliminate all Antlered Mule tags for Landowners is a very bad call.
Many many landowners in this area allowed access to their land despite having tags, lots don't even hunt but if this proposal goes through it could be one of the biggest blows to hunter/landowner relations in a very long time. Not just for Mule deer but for all kinds of game and varmint hunting.
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02-21-2018, 09:19 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobalong
Have you ever hunted private land or even hunted before? The Landowner tags needed to have sort of limitations put on them but to completely eliminate all Antlered Mule tags for Landowners is a very bad call.
Many many landowners in this area allowed access to their land despite having tags, lots don't even hunt but if this proposal goes through it could be one of the biggest blows to hunter/landowner relations in a very long time. Not just for Mule deer but for all kinds of game and varmint hunting.
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I don’t think so.
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02-21-2018, 11:28 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boah
I don’t think so.
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I think you may be wrong.
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02-21-2018, 11:35 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 863
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I may be. I was once before. I don’t think I’ll have any access problems.
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02-22-2018, 12:50 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boah
I may be. I was once before. I don’t think I’ll have any access problems.
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I don't think I will either - but that doesn't do much good for the rest of the folks. It isn't all about me.
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02-22-2018, 02:06 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,226
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All hunting stakeholder groups that surveyed their membership voted in favour of all proposals.
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Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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02-22-2018, 06:31 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
All hunting stakeholder groups that surveyed their membership voted in favour of all proposals.
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Thanks for that info, wb. If it is true, I may have to reconsider my membership in a couple of those organizations when renewal time comes. Hopefully others will feel the same way.
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02-22-2018, 06:49 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobalong
Have you ever hunted private land or even hunted before? The Landowner tags needed to have sort of limitations put on them but to completely eliminate all Antlered Mule tags for Landowners is a very bad call.
Many many landowners in this area allowed access to their land despite having tags, lots don't even hunt but if this proposal goes through it could be one of the biggest blows to hunter/landowner relations in a very long time. Not just for Mule deer but for all kinds of game and varmint hunting.
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To plagiarize Albertadave's post above, YEP.
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02-22-2018, 07:15 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,634
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02-22-2018, 07:16 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: WMU 108
Posts: 6,308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobalong
Have you ever hunted private land or even hunted before? The Landowner tags needed to have sort of limitations put on them but to completely eliminate all Antlered Mule tags for Landowners is a very bad call.
Many many landowners in this area allowed access to their land despite having tags, lots don't even hunt but if this proposal goes through it could be one of the biggest blows to hunter/landowner relations in a very long time. Not just for Mule deer but for all kinds of game and varmint hunting.
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I agree there needs to be some limits put in place but too cut it out totally will close a pile of land for sure .
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02-22-2018, 07:17 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,634
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Last edited by Duk Dog; 02-22-2018 at 07:25 AM.
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02-22-2018, 09:02 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 54
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A landowner tag already comes with the requirement that the landowner allow access to other hunters.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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02-22-2018, 09:13 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCLightning
I don't think I will either - but that doesn't do much good for the rest of the folks. It isn't all about me.
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I knew that was coming. If landowners are going to close access to hunters because of anything ESRD does, it just shows what type of people they are. They probably don’t allow access anyways.
By me saying I won’t have trouble with access, I mean most People. But, that’s just my opinion.
Landowners that don’t allow access are either anti- hunting, pro hunting for themselves on their land, or want profit for access.
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02-22-2018, 09:14 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snareman
A landowner tag already comes with the requirement that the landowner allow access to other hunters.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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How’s that working??
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02-22-2018, 09:17 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
All hunting stakeholder groups that surveyed their membership voted in favour of all proposals.
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Would it be safe to say the membership didn't understand the implications of some of the recommendations? Its hard to believe that anyone would voluntarily give all that extra harvest to the outfitters willingly for the extra few tags we get in return for ****ing off landowners.
That and this idea that the sheep tags will be standardized across all WMU's.
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02-22-2018, 09:24 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLH
Would it be safe to say the membership didn't understand the implications of some of the recommendations? Its hard to believe that anyone would voluntarily give all that extra harvest to the outfitters willingly for the extra few tags we get in return for ****ing off landowners.
That and this idea that the sheep tags will be standardized across all WMU's.
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In the days of survey this and survey that, people need to read the questions and understand them....at some point a survey you do is actually going to mean something, like this one.
LC
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