30 cal???

[Kurt505]

With the advancement in bullets these days, particularly in the 6.5 and 7mm catergory, extremely high BC's and controlled expansion, more and more I think the 30cal is becoming obsolete in terms of hunting.

Am I wrong in thinking less is becoming more in terms of modern cartridges?

[Nyksta]

most hunting is done at 30 to 200 meters, and BC and all that other stuff has little to do with it. If you are talking about target shooting or the long range hunting that a small percentage of people actually do, then the person behind the gun will have to know what they need for their situation. if someone wanted a special long range gun, they arent going to worry about what ammo everyone else is choosing.

if you are focused entirely on hunting with the long range gun, you still have to deliver enough energy to the hunted animal at whatever distance you are choosing is ethical and within your limits. is that 6.5 caliber 120 grain bullet going to deliver enough energy for your animal for an ethical kill? or should you have a 200 grain 30 caliber bullet doing the job? long range has slower speeds and lower energy.

and lastly, from what I've seen, most of the advancement in bullet construction with the 6.5 and 7mm calibers, has also advanced in the 30 cal bullets. this advancement is doing great things for all bullets, and so there is a great variety to choose from for making the perfect ammunition for whatever job someone chooses.

[cowmanbob]

The four B+ C animals I've used a 30-06 on would beg to differ.

[Flight01]

Originally Posted by cowmanbob

The four B+ C animals I've used a 30-06 on would beg to differ.

Yeah. How many 10's of millions of North American game animals that have fallen to the 30-30, 308,30-06, 300win mag, and other .30 cal

I still like 6.5's don't get me wrong.

But 30 cals are not obsolete , just not the latest craze.

[elkhunter11]

I no longer own a 30 caliber cartridge for big game hunting, because it just isn't necessary to use a bullet with that large of a bore. The 30 caliber cartridges are still effective, but they just aren't required for any big game that can be hunted in Alberta.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I no longer own a 30 caliber cartridge for big game hunting, because it just isn't necessary to use a bullet with that large of a bore. The 30 caliber cartridges are still effective, but they just aren't required for any big game that can be hunted in Alberta.

That's exactly what I'm getting at. I'm not saying a 30 cal is no good, I'm saying it "seems" there is a trend that started out with the long range shooting community and has filtered into the hunting community, that high BC's in the 6-7mm range seems to be where it's at. I know that the 338 is the long range king but it's not very user friendly in a hunting platform.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I no longer own a 30 caliber cartridge for big game hunting, because it just isn't necessary to use a bullet with that large of a bore. The 30 caliber cartridges are still effective, but they just aren't required for any big game that can be hunted in Alberta.

Since we have some time on our hands lets alter my original
post and replace the .35 Whelen with a 30-06. Apparently someone thought I stacked the choice with the .35

The 30-06 will be running a 200 gr NP. The 6.5 will use a bullet of choice. Same scenario.

Wanna play ?

[dogslayer403]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

With the advancement in bullets these days, particularly in the 6.5 and 7mm catergory, extremely high BC's and controlled expansion, more and more I think the 30cal is becoming obsolete in terms of hunting.

Am I wrong in thinking less is becoming more in terms of modern cartridges?

Look at hornady these days im running a 212g eld-x in my 300wm at just over 2800fps g1 of .673.
Pretty hard to get a 6.5 to put that kind of energy down range Id say with modern bullets the 30 is stronger than ever

[ForwardBias]

Originally Posted by dogslayer403

Look at hornady these days im running a 212g eld-x in my 300wm at just over 2800fps g1 of .673.
Pretty hard to get a 6.5 to put that kind of energy down range Id say with modern bullets the 30 is stronger than ever

x2

[Beeman3]

I don't think the 30 cal is obsolete by any means. I see you mention high BC bullets so I am going to reference for long range hunting. As stated most people don't shoot much game beyond 300 yds so BC means nothing to them. Yes the 6.5 is the rage and I own a few 6.5X47. It is an impressive little case driving a 130 Berger at 3000 fps. Shooting steel out to 910 yds is a lot of fun (far as property allows me to shoot). With that said, run the numbers on a 30 cal 215 Berger at 3000 fps and you will start to see the energy advantage. The 215 Berger, H1000 and the 300 WIN MAG are a perfect match for each other. As was mentioned the Hornady ELD-X and ELD-M are another good option. Really depends what you are hunting and how far you want to shoot. If I was going to shoot a deer and no more than 600 yds I'd carry my 6.5X47. Deer out to 1000 it doesn't have the energy, so the 300 Win Mag would be the gun I would choose.

[tikka250]

If they invented a 6.5 bullet that killed, dressed and packed out your game you still couldnt get rid of 30 cal.

[Kurt505]

I'm not saying the 30 cal is going anywhere, I'm saying the smaller calibers are making leaps and bounds with bullet BC's and performance.

A 175gr 7mm bullet Hornady ELD-X has a BC of .689, that bullet propelled out of the same size case as that of a 178gr 30 cal ELD-X bullet with a BC of .552 will kick less and hit harder, even with a 220gr bullet the 30 cal is at .663 BC.

The smaller diameter bullets are getting the job done with less recoil, more penetration, and flatter trajectories with modern bullet design, and because of this I think more and more hunters can see you don't need a big bore, unless you enjoy them for what they are, which I totally understand.

[58thecat]

USA (Averaged 2015 sales rank)

.223 Remington
.308 Winchester
.30-06 Springfield
.30-30 Winchester
.270 Winchester
.243 Winchester
7mm Remington Magnum
.300 Winchester Magnum
7.62x39mm Soviet
.22-250 Remington
Honorable Mention: .300 WSM, 7mm-08 Rem. and .338 Win. Mag.

.30 cal ain't going no where.

[bubba300]

I want another 300 RUM in the future,but might go with the 300 Norma Mag instead.

[skidderman]

I've gone only to 30 cal. BC means nothing to me. What it does to an elk means everything. In fact I had two 7MM mags & sold them both because my 30-06 can do anything the 7mm can in a lot lighter rifle.

[Sashi]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

USA (Averaged 2015 sales rank)

.223 Remington
.308 Winchester
.30-06 Springfield
.30-30 Winchester
.270 Winchester
.243 Winchester
7mm Remington Magnum
.300 Winchester Magnum
7.62x39mm Soviet
.22-250 Remington
Honorable Mention: .300 WSM, 7mm-08 Rem. and .338 Win. Mag.

.30 cal ain't going no where.

O.K. O.K. where is the 6.5anyways?

[Sashi]

I saw some federal blue box 6.5x55 in Canadian Tire the other day, $70.00 per box, so you gotta believe they are just chompin at the heels of the 3006. Never have seen any creedmores etc. Wonder what the price of those would be?

[Puma]

.30 cal obsolete ?

Like the following 100 + year old obsolete cartridges ?

6.5 x 55
303 Brit
.45/70 Govt
.375 H&H

[Alephnaught]

It's interesting to see these conversations where the '_ mm' projectile is regarded as making the .30 obsolete.

Europeans have been using 6mm/6.5mm/8mm for hunting for 120+ years. The 6.5x55 was designed in, what, the late 1880s. The only thing new about the '_ mm' idea is the North American shooter coming to the realization that the .30 isn't as almighty as it's cracked up to be.

[stob]

you are wrong in thinking

[sns2]

Never gonna happen. This is a site for rifle loonies. Most guys buy a 30-06 and use it all their life then pass it to their kids.

[Kevin242]

Most of my life I used a .280 Rem, but just bought a .30-06 last week! Not because I don't like the .280, but because I've always liked the old .30-06 as well!

Also have my grandpa's old Savage 99 in .300 Savage, so it looks like .30 cal will be part of my vocabulary for a bit yet.

[Kurt505]

I have a few 30 cal's in the safe, and that's where they'll stay with the exception of my m70 Featherweight in 308, I'm going to have that one turned into either a 7-08 or 6.5 Creedmoor so I'll actually use it. I have no use for my 30 cal's when I have guns in the 6mm-7mm range that get the job done with efficiency and authority, and are a pleasure to shoot.

[Little red riding hood]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I have a few 30 cal's in the safe, and that's where they'll stay with the exception of my m70 Featherweight in 308, I'm going to have that one turned into either a 7-08 or 6.5 Creedmoor so I'll actually use it. I have no use for my 30 cal's when I have guns in the 6mm-7mm range that get the job done with efficiency and authority, and are a pleasure to shoot.

This site has a buy and sell, if you want to test your theory about them becoming obsolete, stick them on there and see how long they last!

[bearstalker234]

I own an 8mm Mauser. its in the 30.cal range, I just switched to a 7mm mag not because of the power behind the rifle or because of the range you can shoot with it, I made the change simply because its hard to find 8mm Mauser ammo out here. I come from Ontario and its very easy to find my Mauser rounds there, but here in Alberta they are hard to come by and when I do find them they are upwards of $60 bucks a box... I have reload dyes but if I have to buy a box of shells in a pinch its just easier to buy a cheap box of 7mm, even though my 7mm mag. is about 31 years younger and much more powerful than my 8mm Mauser, the Mauser can still deliver a nice punch at 300 yards.
Its not always about following the trends of other hunters or trying to buy the coolest gun on the market. sometimes you just have to be practical... happy hunting

[Mike_W]

BC's don't mean much until you get over 500 yards. Sure a higher BC's will be flatter shooting slightly but if you know your rifle you should know where it shoots at those ranges, but like the difference in ballistics of a 7mm Rem Mag and a 280 Rem shooting the same bullet the ballistics will be different. So all the focus on high BC is a lot of marketing.

I think the quality of bullets has let smaller caliber and lighter bullets be used for larger game applications as they penetrate well however there will always be a want and desire to smack game with huge energy.

30 cal is king and always will be.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

BC's don't mean much until you get over 500 yards. Sure a higher BC's will be flatter shooting slightly but if you know your rifle you should know where it shoots at those ranges, but like the difference in ballistics of a 7mm Rem Mag and a 280 Rem shooting the same bullet the ballistics will be different. So all the focus on high BC is a lot of marketing.

I think the quality of bullets has let smaller caliber and lighter bullets be used for larger game applications as they penetrate well however there will always be a want and desire to smack game with huge energy.

30 cal is king and always will be.

I thought 338 is king? Seems to beat out the 30 cal in hitting power, if hitting power is the measure of who is king.

BC's are nice, and when combined with new bullet technology is where the smaller cal's are shinning. Hopefully my new build will be done before this upcoming season and I'll have a chance to test out what a 6.5 will do to a moose. I have already killed a bull moose with one shot at over 500yds with a 280rem, and that moose didn't go more than 10ft before rearing over backwards.

[Nyksta]

BC has nothing to do with it once the bullet gets to an animal, bullet weight, penetration, and energy is what does the job. If OP is talking about "most" hunting then this list is a good example.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_killing_power_list.htm

[Dean2]

You guys need to get out and do some fishing, shooting or anything else useful and fun. These kinds of arguments are really a waste of time and your good brain power.

Kurt you have at least two guns you should be working up loads for!

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

BC has nothing to do with it once the bullet gets to an animal, bullet weight, penetration, and energy is what does the job. If OP is talking about "most" hunting then this list is a good example.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_killing_power_list.htm

Isn't BC a determining factor in how much energy the bullet retains in flight? A 140gr ELDX bullet out a 260rem at 500yds will have more energy than a 168gr ELDX bullet out of a 308, will be traveling almost 200fps faster, and have much better penetration. Minimum performance speed for most hunting bullets is 1800fps, so by about 565yds, and about 1200ftpd energy the 168gr out of the 308 is done, where the 260rem will make it out to 750yds while having about 1000ftpds of energy. Even though the 260 will have less energy it will still penetrate deeper and have enough speed for the ELDX to perform properly. For reference, at 550yds the 260rem is still traveling at 2025fps and has 1275ftpd of energy, and at 750yds the 308 has about 900ftpd energy and is traveling at about 1550fps. As far as wind drift is concerned, the 6.5 is the clear winner.

Apples to apples the 6.5 stomps the 30cal with less recoil.


Dean, I've got 3 new rifles to develope loads for, I just don't know how bad I want to do it in -20!!!!