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03-27-2014, 09:48 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lizard Lake, SK.
Posts: 2,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schmedlap
One is a livestock farmer. One acquires (lease or own) land that has a "predator" population, and puts one's livestock out there with little or no surveillance or "guards" against said predators (who were there first?). Then one wants a) Mommy government (i.e., me the taxpayer?) to compensate one when said predators do the thing one knows they will do, and b) Mommy government to require one component of the surveillors/guards to pay me for the privilege of their assistance. It all makes perfect sense (???). I guess I shouldn't have "forced" you to go into the business (which is what it is? - it is not a social program? - well, except at tax time it certainly is...?). Give me a break!!
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I would venture to say ranchers pay a fair amount more land tax than you do.
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03-27-2014, 09:54 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,236
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Quote:
read in alberta outdoorsmen magazine alberta beef producers proposing pay to play to recover wildlife losses.you think we would be welcomed on the land to hunt and take care of over population instead they want to charge us to help.
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So the idea is to charge the people that can help to reduce crop damage, to help pay for crop damage? That doesn't make a lot of sense now, does it?
Using that reasoning, if my house catches fire, I should charge the firefighters for trying to put it out.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
Last edited by elkhunter11; 03-27-2014 at 09:59 PM.
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03-27-2014, 09:54 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,408
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So problem animals aren't taken care of by F&W or a trapper?
I'm very confused as what is being discussed after reading WB's post.
If I have a bee problem in my shed and Beeguy wants the Bee's, shouldn't I be paying him to deal with my problem?
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03-27-2014, 09:56 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stony Plain
Posts: 6,659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expmler
Far from it, I have 13 quarters of prime hunting land that I run a cattle and grain operation on. I hunt and I allow access to 99% of those who ask. I have a herd of Elk on my land that destroy hay bales in the winter. I could easily eliminate this herd if I didn't have gov't standing in my way. The gov't is trying to build and sustain the herd to allow more opportunities for hunters by only allowing a very small harvest.
So I am the only one who pays while every body else benefits.
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Actually according to your location in the top right corner ,you are in Saskatchewan so you really have no skin in this game anyway.I feel your pain though being the only one who pays while we all get a free ride
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03-27-2014, 09:58 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gust
So problem animals aren't taken care of by F&W or a trapper?
I'm very confused as what is being discussed after reading WB's post.
If I have a bee problem in my shed and Beeguy wants the Bee's, shouldn't I be paying him to deal with my problem?
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Winning!!!!! This makes sense kinda how the world revolves in common sense land
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No wonder some of the ABA crowd find it so hard to become proficient with a spear, they are throwing them backwards.
The lack of feathers must confuse some of them
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03-27-2014, 09:59 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jungleboy
Oil companies pay for access so they can build facilities and access roads . Wandering around during one or 2 months of the year hunting is a completely different story. Apples and oranges as it were
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Oil companies pay for access to wander around and just survey, never build a thing sometimes that's apples to apples.
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03-27-2014, 10:01 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landowner
Oil companies pay for access to wander around and just survey, never build a thing sometimes that's apples to apples.
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They are not paying to take care of an issue that you are having they are paying to scout for future income, orange!
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No wonder some of the ABA crowd find it so hard to become proficient with a spear, they are throwing them backwards.
The lack of feathers must confuse some of them
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03-27-2014, 10:03 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lizard Lake, SK.
Posts: 2,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gust
So problem animals aren't taken care of by F&W or a trapper?
I'm very confused as what is being discussed after reading WB's post.
If I have a bee problem in my shed and Beeguy wants the Bee's, shouldn't I be paying him to deal with my problem?
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You shouldn't have gov't and hunter groups standing in the way of eradicating the problem yourself either.
As with my Elk problem I can solve the problem quite easily on my own. Gov't says no because hunters want hunting opportunities.
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03-27-2014, 10:07 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lizard Lake, SK.
Posts: 2,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhguy
They are not paying to take care of an issue that you are having they are paying to scout for future income, orange!
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They are paying for access to maybe find oil which is a benefit to them.
Hunters want that same access to benefit themselves, but they want the access for free.
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03-27-2014, 10:08 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,236
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Quote:
Hunters want that same access to benefit themselves, but they want the access for free.
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Every elk a hunter shoots, reduces your problem, so you benefit as well.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
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03-27-2014, 10:12 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lizard Lake, SK.
Posts: 2,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
Every elk a hunter shoots, reduces your problem, so you benefit as well.
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I am still the only one paying. As I said if it wasn't for the gov't and hunters wanting opportunities I could eliminate the problem.
So hunters\gov't actually contribute to my problem by not letting me eliminate it.
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03-27-2014, 10:14 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expmler
They are paying for access to maybe find oil which is a benefit to them.
Hunters want that same access to benefit themselves, but they want the access for free.
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You are benefiting just as much if not way more then the hunter. Your crop or stock are in better shape after the harvest therefore fiscally benefiting you...why should you make money off both ends , especially for a hunter harvesting a resource you don't own , while offering free protection for what you do.
We should start a livestock protection service and charge farmers to hunt...wait that is stupid too
__________________
No wonder some of the ABA crowd find it so hard to become proficient with a spear, they are throwing them backwards.
The lack of feathers must confuse some of them
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03-27-2014, 10:20 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,236
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Quote:
I am still the only one paying.
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Really, after paying for his licenses, fuel, gun, ammunition etc, much do you think every pound of meat costs a hunter?
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
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03-27-2014, 10:21 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expmler
You shouldn't have gov't and hunter groups standing in the way of eradicating the problem yourself either.
As with my Elk problem I can solve the problem quite easily on my own. Gov't says no because hunters want hunting opportunities.
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Between me you and the fencepost (which in Internet world means millions of others),, have you ever accepted a gratuity from hunters or put out word to come hunt your land without a gratuity?
For the record: the tax I pay a year to live in Calgary is equal to the tax I would pay in Saskatchewan for 300 hectares of prime black soil farmland. Sadly, the drive to go fish is too far.
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03-27-2014, 10:23 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lizard Lake, SK.
Posts: 2,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhguy
You are benefiting just as much if not way more then the hunter. Your crop or stock are in better shape after the harvest therefore fiscally benefiting you...why should you make money off both ends , especially for a hunter harvesting a resource you don't own , while offering free protection for what you do.
We should start a livestock protection service and charge farmers to hunt...wait that is stupid too
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So tell me again how a herd of elk eating the flowers off of my canola and eating tonnes of alfalfa before I can bale it improves the yield.
If a herd of elk eat 10 tonnes of hay and 50 bushels of grain how does that not cost me money.
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03-27-2014, 10:24 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expmler
I am still the only one paying. As I said if it wasn't for the gov't and hunters wanting opportunities I could eliminate the problem.
So hunters\gov't actually contribute to my problem by not letting me eliminate it.
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stalking cougar recordings and a new design for ungulate-free cattle feeders.
Ta-Dahhhhhhhhh
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03-27-2014, 10:25 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: south of Edm
Posts: 517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expmler
I am still the only one paying. As I said if it wasn't for the gov't and hunters wanting opportunities I could eliminate the problem.
So hunters\gov't actually contribute to my problem by not letting me eliminate it.
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Do you mean the gov't that gives beef producers taxpayers money to bail them out every time they might lose some money.
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03-27-2014, 10:25 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expmler
So tell me again how a herd of elk eating the flowers off of my canola and eating tonnes of alfalfa before I can bale it improves the yield.
If a herd of elk eat 10 tonnes of hay and 50 bushels of grain how does that not cost me money.
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taller fences.
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03-27-2014, 10:26 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,236
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Quote:
If a herd of elk eat 10 tonnes of hay and 50 bushels of grain how does that not cost me money.
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If hunters killed half of your elk, it would save you 5 tonnes of hay, and 25 bushels of grain. Think of how much that would save you.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
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03-27-2014, 10:27 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expmler
So tell me again how a herd of elk eating the flowers off of my canola and eating tonnes of alfalfa before I can bale it improves the yield.
If a herd of elk eat 10 tonnes of hay and 50 bushels of grain how does that not cost me money.
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But if I remove them the issue is time is it not? Why would I expect a guy to come on my land to help me out and pay?? Take hunting out of it and say you have a bug issue destroying your crop, would you expect a pest guy to pay you?
So are you anti hunter and anti animal?you don't get to have it both ways
__________________
No wonder some of the ABA crowd find it so hard to become proficient with a spear, they are throwing them backwards.
The lack of feathers must confuse some of them
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03-27-2014, 10:31 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lizard Lake, SK.
Posts: 2,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
Really, after paying for his licenses, fuel, gun, ammunition etc, much do you think every pound of meat costs a hunter?
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What do you think seed, fertilizer, fuel etc cost to grow a crop.
At least you have some elk meat, I get elk dung.
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03-27-2014, 10:35 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expmler
What do you think seed, fertilizer, fuel etc cost to grow a crop.
At least you have some elk meat, I get elk dung.
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I will personally drive to your land, follow every expectation you set out and harvest any legal pests I can. I am offering a legitimate solution, why would I pay you, we both benefit.
As farmer we have options to pursue like crop insurance, methods of scaring animals off...we get far from nothing, and we have to expect some loss every year like any business in existence
__________________
No wonder some of the ABA crowd find it so hard to become proficient with a spear, they are throwing them backwards.
The lack of feathers must confuse some of them
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03-27-2014, 10:36 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stony Plain
Posts: 6,659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expmler
You shouldn't have gov't and hunter groups standing in the way of eradicating the problem yourself either.
As with my Elk problem I can solve the problem quite easily on my own. Gov't says no because hunters want hunting opportunities.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expmler
They are paying for access to maybe find oil which is a benefit to them.
Hunters want that same access to benefit themselves, but they want the access for free.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expmler
What do you think seed, fertilizer, fuel etc cost to grow a crop.
At least you have some elk meat, I get elk dung.
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OMG we get it already you are the downtrodden farmer. I understand that everyone is out to get you . I hope that some how some way you can find some small bit of happiness in this awful awful world that you live in.
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03-27-2014, 10:43 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lizard Lake, SK.
Posts: 2,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhguy
But if I remove them the issue is time is it not? Why would I expect a guy to come on my land to help me out and pay?? Take hunting out of it and say you have a bug issue destroying your crop, would you expect a pest guy to pay you?
So are you anti hunter and anti animal?you don't get to have it both ways
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I don't expect you to solve my problem. I can do that myself. It is gov't interest in providing hunting opportunities for you that stand in my way.
If I have a bug problem I can solve it myself, gov't does not tell me it is illegal to eradicate the bugs.
I am neither, I allow hunting on my land but that does not solve my problem. Hunters can come this fall and take all they are allowed. Then I would like to be able to take the rest and donate them to the food bank.
As long as I am not allowed to do that I will have an ongoing problem and hunters will have a free benefit.
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03-27-2014, 10:45 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lizard Lake, SK.
Posts: 2,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jungleboy
OMG we get it already you are the downtrodden farmer. I understand that everyone is out to get you . I hope that some how some way you can find some small bit of happiness in this awful awful world that you live in.
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Typical, can't support your position so you resort to name calling and mockery.
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03-27-2014, 10:51 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,236
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Quote:
What do you think seed, fertilizer, fuel etc cost to grow a crop.
At least you have some elk meat, I get elk dung.
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Unless you are doing something very wrong, you should get a crop, even if the elk do eat some of it.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
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03-27-2014, 10:52 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expmler
I don't expect you to solve my problem. I can do that myself. It is gov't interest in providing hunting opportunities for you that stand in my way.
If I have a bug problem I can solve it myself, gov't does not tell me it is illegal to eradicate the bugs.
I am neither, I allow hunting on my land but that does not solve my problem. Hunters can come this fall and take all they are allowed. Then I would like to be able to take the rest and donate them to the food bank.
As long as I am not allowed to do that I will have an ongoing problem and hunters will have a free benefit.
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From my experience food banks won't take it, its unregulated. While you may be logical on this last post to allow anyone to kill off any remaining wildlife is nonsence, we could loose most of our natural food source in a single season. If all of us who have land had the same concept we would not need a forum, we couldn't hunt.
I guess I look at owning a farm as a hard earned privilege, and all that goes with it. I don't feel I have the right to remove the parts of nature that don't coincide with my plans for the piece of nature I own
__________________
No wonder some of the ABA crowd find it so hard to become proficient with a spear, they are throwing them backwards.
The lack of feathers must confuse some of them
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03-27-2014, 10:52 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lizard Lake, SK.
Posts: 2,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
If hunters killed half of your elk, it would save you 5 tonnes of hay, and 25 bushels of grain. Think of how much that would save you.
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And if each hunter paid me $50.00 it might make up for the rest. I would be more than happy to have elk on my land if we could do that deal.
Hunters benefit from guaranteed access and I don't suffer any loss.
WIN\WIN
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03-27-2014, 10:54 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,236
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Quote:
And if each hunter paid me $50.00 it might make up for the rest. I would be more than happy to have elk on my land if we could do that deal.
WIN\WIN
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It's illegal, we both get charged. LOSE/LOSE.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
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03-27-2014, 10:55 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Spruce Grove, AB
Posts: 3,045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brownbomber
It's tough to sympathize with lost livestock when there is no access, or elk or deer eating feed with no access. But I know a guy who complains about both and complains about getting no access and doesn't give any lol
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It is their land. They pay the taxes, they own it. End of story. Does anyone tell you what they can or can't do on your property? To think that any of us can force permission on another person's property is just not right. If I was a farmer, (I'm not) and someone came on my land with that attitude they would not have a single chance of ever hunting on it. If we as a hunting community continue to disrespect farmers then we will truly lose that priviledge forever. Most farmers that don't give permission, don't for one reason. That is that some idiots thought it was a right to do whatever they wanted. If this is the kind of attitude we have in our hunting community I pity us all!!!
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