Why the 223 Rem should be a legal big game round

[Pathfinder76]

Anyone can shoot it accurately.

[Grizzly Adams]

If you use that argument, the .22 LR should be too.

Grizz

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

If you use that argument, the .22 LR should be too.

Grizz

Has taken many big game animals since its introduction.


The little 243 with a small pill is deadly too

[elkhunter11]

And with the right bullet, some of the .204" cartridges would work fine on pronghorn and deer.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

If you use that argument, the .22 LR should be too.

Grizz

In the first picture my daughter is hitting a 12” target repeatedly at 550 yds.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by chuck

In the first picture my daughter is hitting a 12” target repeatedly at 550 yds.

Would you shoot big game at 550 yards with that rifle/load? If not, it proves nothing about the cartridges capabilities as a big game cartridge.

[bessiedog]

Chuck.... you’re raisin em right!

Keep it up! Very nice to see young shooters.

Make sure they get their willow Valley memberships. Put them in for the pheasant shoot ok?

I’ll be there.

[bat119]

You might have to hunt in Sask. they changed the regs this year used to be any caliber over .23


Changes to Allowed Firearms for Big Game Hunting Recent amendments now allow most common centre fire rifle cartridges to be used to hunt big game. This regulation recognizes that advances in cartridge design have justified allowing smaller calibre firearms for hunting big game species. However, the ministry recommends that cartridges larger than .23 calibre continue to be used for game species such as moose, elk and black bear


It is illegal hunt big game with: > any cartridge with an empty cartridge case length of less than 32 mm (this includes most handgun cartridges and all rimfire cartridges). > any centre fire rifle cartridge of .17 calibre. > or any of the following cartridges: .22 Hornet, .22 KHornet, .218 Bee, .25-20 Winchester, .30 Carbine, .32-20 Winchester, .357 Magnum, .41 Remington Magnum, .44-40 Winchester or .45 Colt. > full metal-jacketed, hardpoint, non-expanding bullets. > a pneumatic firearm or device propelling arrows, crossbow bolts or projectiles by compressed air, nitrogen, carbon dioxide or any other gas. This includes devices such as the air bow or large calibre air rifles. > a slingbow or similar elastic powered devices. > a pistol or revolver.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Would you shoot big game at 550 yards with that rifle/load? If not, it proves nothing about the cartridges capabilities as a big game cartridge.

It proves that hitting a deer at 250 for her would be a cake walk. It proves that an 11 year old girl can master a rifle that won’t kick her into next week. That’s what it proves. That is the point. It will also start her out not being afraid of center fire rifles. Is a HUGE confidence builder etc.

I offered the rifle to grown men to shoot the same target. All but a young teenage kid refused Why? Because they had shot before and firmly believed they couldn’t do it. And if an 11 year old girl can and they can’t, well that’s a blow to the ego. Which of course isn’t true, but it’s in their head and tough to get rid of.

[Lefty-Canuck]

When you only take heads shots...the .223 works just fine

...but seriously that’s why I like the 260rem or 260imp in “smaller” cartridges , it’s a little bit vanilla but dang does it work well and it’s a treat for anyone to shoot.



LC

[catnthehat]

I am in the group that says that the .22 Center fires are excrkkebgbdeer cartridges when used within proper parameters .
Many States and several Provinces allow them and they are used with great effect when legally used.
I personally know a person who has killed several moose with a .222 Remington , one at just over 100 paces .
Cat

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by chuck

It proves that hitting a deer at 250 for her would be a cake walk. It proves that an 11 year old girl can master a rifle that won’t kick her into next week. That’s what it proves. That is the point. It will also start her out not being afraid of center fire rifles. Is a HUGE confidence builder etc.

I offered the rifle to grown men to shoot the same target. All but a young teenage kid refused Why? Because they had shot before and firmly believed they couldn’t do it. And if an 11 year old girl can and they can’t, well that’s a blow to the ego. Which of course isn’t true, but it’s in their head and tough to get rid of.

And an 11 year old could easily hit big game in the vitals at over 300 yards with my 17 hornet, with virtually no recoil, and less noise , but I wouldn't hunt big game with my 17 hornet. I personally am not in favor of allowing all centerfire cartridges to be used for big game, as some jurisdictions allow. However, perhaps a minimum bullet weight and energy level that would allow the 223rem to be used, would work.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And an 11 year old could easily hit big game in the vitals at over 300 yards with my 17 hornet, with virtually no recoil, and less noise , but I wouldn't hunt big game with my 17 hornet. Yes the 223rem will work fine for some big game applications, but it wold be a poor choice for other applications.

There is a lot of things in life like that. That’s we we have a brain.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by chuck

There is a lot of things in life like that. That’s we we have a brain.

If everyone used their brain, there would be no need for any cartridge restrictions at all.

[Don_Parsons]

The world record largest Grizzly Bear was taken in Alberta in 1953 with a single shot 22 long rifle.

I think BB Guns would make great big game rifle as well.

https://www.ammoland.com/2014/11/wha...izzly-in-1953/

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If everyone used their brain, there would be no need for any cartridge restrictions at all.

Most laws are made through politics and emotion, Moreso than other factors .
The spear and atlatl restrictions are only two that come to mind
Ontario has done tediculous cartridge restrictions that make no sense at all .
Cat

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Don_Parsons

The world record largest Grizzly Bear was taken in Alberta in 1953 with a single shot 22 long rifle.

I think BB Guns would make great big game rifle as well.

https://www.ammoland.com/2014/11/wha...izzly-in-1953/

There was more than one shot fired at that bear IIRC ,one was lethal
Cat

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Most laws are made through politics and emotion, Moreso than other factors .
The spear and atlatl restrictions are only two that come to mind
Ontario has done tediculous cartridge restrictions that make no sense at all .
Cat

It’s the left way.

[last minute]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

If you use that argument, the .22 LR should be too.

Grizz

agreed

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by chuck

In the first picture my daughter is hitting a 12” target repeatedly at 550 yds.

That's some fine shooting for sure, great time in The field with the kids, simply awesome, keep it up.

[Don_Parsons]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

There was more than one shot fired at that bear IIRC ,one was lethal
Cat

Yes, but the first one put it down, that give her time to single feed the rest that made sure it wasn't going to make a mess in its kitchen. Ha.

Lots of Deer have been taken over the years with small caliber rifles, not my kind of thing since I like the heavy weights of lead.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by chuck

It’s the left way.

Not just the left. And I'm with elk11!

[Smokinyotes]

At one time the empty cartridge needed to be 1.75” min length and min .23 caliber. The .223 would be a fine deer gun with proper shot placement, problem is there are many hunters who don’t have the skill for putting bullets in the right place. I don’t think the 223 would do much to a big bull moose shot in the shoulder at 300 yards.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

Not just the left. And I'm with elk11!

So which is better? A 12 year old kid who has put 200-500 223 rounds on target and can darn well hit a deers lungs with it on command, or a 12 year old kid that shoots a deer in the guts with his 270 cause he’s closing his eyes and jerking the trigger? And you can apply that to an adult as well.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by chuck

So which is better? A 12 year old kid who has put 200-500 223 rounds on target and can darn well hit a deers lungs with it on command, or a 12 year old kid that shoots a deer in the guts with his 270 cause he’s closing his eyes and jerking the trigger? And you can apply that to an adult as well.

I see a 12 year old/adult that needs more bench time before committing. Take a gander through the chuck hawk recoil table and you'll see plenty of larger calibers that don't kick as bad as assumed. And that goes without getting complicated and adjusting loads.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by chuck

So which is better? A 12 year old kid who has put 200-500 223 rounds on target and can darn well hit a deers lungs with it on command, or a 12 year old kid that shoots a deer in the guts with his 270 cause he’s closing his eyes and jerking the trigger? And you can apply that to an adult as well.

With proper bullets, a 223rem will work well for deer sized game, but our regulations consider all big game together, they don't separate them. For moose or elk, I would much prefer a 243win, and most 12 year olds can handle a 243win just fine. But when it comes right down to it, if people use common sense, cartridge restrictions would not be necessary.

[last minute]

So which is better? A 12 year old kid who has put 200-500 223 rounds on target and can darn well hit a deers lungs with it on command, or a 12 year old kid that with his 270 shoots a deer in the guts cause he’s closing his eyes and jerking the trigger?

well that a loaded question who’s to say the 12 year old wouldn’t make the same mistake as the 12 year old who shoots "His" 270 as you put it in the guts of the deer cause "He "closes his eyes to me it’s a week analogue I don’t buy it try again.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

At one time the empty cartridge needed to be 1.75” min length and min .23 caliber. The .223 would be a fine deer gun with proper shot placement, problem is there are many hunters who don’t have the skill for putting bullets in the right place. I don’t think the 223 would do much to a big bull moose shot in the shoulder at 300 yards.

So there are a good many hunters out there who have put the bullet in the exact right place every single time throughout their entire hunting career?

[Smokinyotes]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

So there are a good many hunters out there who have put the bullet in the exact right place every single time throughout their entire hunting career?

Sure but not everybody can. Personally I have no problem with some one hunting deer with a 223, but I would like to see a min 264 cal for moose and elk.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

At one time the empty cartridge needed to be 1.75” min length and min .23 caliber. The .223 would be a fine deer gun with proper shot placement, problem is there are many hunters who don’t have the skill for putting bullets in the right place. I don’t think the 223 would do much to a big bull moose shot in the shoulder at 300 yards.

I don’t know how people make these leaps.