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Old 07-10-2018, 09:23 AM
Screamrider Screamrider is offline
 
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Default Archery Elk in the 400s

Looking for a few general thoughts reference archery elk hunting in the mountain WMUs.

Bottom line, I'm heading out second week of September for a 8 day backpack hunt. I'm focused on the 400s as taking part in a remote mountain hunt means as much to me as filling my tag. I'm going to stick to archery only, but unfortunately I'm away for work and will only be flying back the day before my hunt starts....so any scouting will be during my few precious hunting days. For some background, I've been chasing elk for 7 years now throughout western Canada and the US, and I've followed both the Elk101 Elk University course and all of Elk Nut's DVDs, so my calling is at least reasonable....so I hope at least, haha.

I'm leaning towards 400 and 402, but I've read a lot about high hunting pressure in these WMUs. First question I have is how bad are the crowds during the archery only season? I also typically hike in at least 10km from any roads with the tipi and spike out from there, so I'm hoping the effort separates me from the masses if there is a lot of pressure.

Also, in terms of elk numbers, how are 400 and 402? I've heard the populations have declined in recent years, but looking at historical harvest reports there still seems to be a number of elk taken each year, albeit with rather low success rates. I'm wondering if the low success rates are a product of folks trying to road hunt the area with little success - meaning that those who work a little harder actually have decent success?

I'm looking at 426, 432 and 434 as well, realizing they have a 6 point limit vice the 3 point in 400 and 402. The stats show only 6 elk taken in each of those WMUs last year, but high success rates - are that few people actually hunting those zones? It's also impossible to decipher success from archery only versus general season, unless I'm missing something?

That's all for now, appreciate any feedback, or other ideas where to look. These WMUs are just where my research lead me to date - but I'm not stuck on them.
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:40 PM
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Not specific to your region but I've found since I began backpack hunting if I go just further than day hunters but not as far as horse hunters I have the area mostly if not completely to myself. I know when I go just for the day once I'm 5-8km from the truck I usually begin hunting my way back to the truck/trailhead. So I backpack in 5-8km depending on the area set up camp and hunt from there. Very few people hunt very far off trail anymore it seems. Probably due to the aging babyboomers not being able to pack out those heavy loads anymore(I know my dad and his buddies never gave it a thought about shooting a moose pretty much anywhere but now that they're all in their 70's without a family to feed they gotten more selective).
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Old 07-10-2018, 06:42 PM
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Don’t worry to much about the harvest stats. Would you report a 6 point if you had the area to yourself? Most guys won’t even give you a compass direction regarding their elk spots, let alone a wmu, and certainly not a report to a government agency that has done a pizz poor job of management.

Yes, the bears and wolves have done a number on the mountain elk herds, and made them somewhat quiet and very alert. There are still elk in all of those zones, and lots of pressure in any area you can walk to/is open enough to hunt effectively. Hiking and shooting a bow is no longer uncommon, nor is internet scouting.

Long and short of it is, you just have to go and put your skills against the mountain.

Be aware that the southern elk herds can and frequently do migrate in and out of the parks/BC.
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Old 07-10-2018, 07:07 PM
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Don’t worry to much about the harvest stats. Would you report a 6 point if you had the area to yourself? Most guys won’t even give you a compass direction regarding their elk spots, let alone a wmu, and certainly not a report to a government agency that has done a pizz poor job of management.



Yes, the bears and wolves have done a number on the mountain elk herds, and made them somewhat quiet and very alert. There are still elk in all of those zones, and lots of pressure in any area you can walk to/is open enough to hunt effectively. Hiking and shooting a bow is no longer uncommon, nor is internet scouting.



Long and short of it is, you just have to go and put your skills against the mountain.



Be aware that the southern elk herds can and frequently do migrate in and out of the parks/BC.


Good point on the stats, and I plan to do exactly as you suggest in terms of just heading out and giving it my best crack!


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Old 07-10-2018, 07:59 PM
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Almost no elk left in 426, 432 and 434. You'll never get an elk out of 432 on foot. 434, nice scenery no elk, just a few feral horses in there.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by fatboyz View Post
Almost no elk left in 426, 432 and 434. You'll never get an elk out of 432 on foot. 434, nice scenery no elk, just a few feral horses in there.


Good to know, thanks. Looking hard at 404, 406, 408 and 410 as well.


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Old 07-10-2018, 09:32 PM
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Almost no elk left in 426, 432 and 434. You'll never get an elk out of 432 on foot. 434, nice scenery no elk, just a few feral horses in there.
They all headed East, that's where the best elk hunting is these days.

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Old 07-11-2018, 02:14 AM
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without doing any previous scouting or hunting with someone that knows the area id say your chances aren't great. the elk here aren't like the elk you see on youtube the population density is pretty low except for a few pockets within certain units and the elk in those are mostly silent. between the grizz, wolves, and every elk hunter with a primos bugal tube thinking they're Cory Jacobson the elk are wary at the best of times with bugles. you could get lucky and stumble into a rut fest over a hot cow. im not trying to rain on your parade but that is what ive found hunting elk in alberta especially if you are targeting a mature 6 point bull they are sneaky smart and very rarely will they broadcast their location. lots of times they will take 5-6 cows and disappear into the thickest brush they can find only to come out after last light and are headed to bed hours before legal shooting light. id say your best bet would be to take a few days off and set up some trail cameras if possible or maybe a friend in the area you plan to hunt ask them to set up some for you. all of my success has been from knowing an area intimately where the elk live eat & sleep what trails they take the wallows they use etc....
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:41 AM
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without doing any previous scouting or hunting with someone that knows the area id say your chances aren't great. the elk here aren't like the elk you see on youtube the population density is pretty low except for a few pockets within certain units and the elk in those are mostly silent. between the grizz, wolves, and every elk hunter with a primos bugal tube thinking they're Cory Jacobson the elk are wary at the best of times with bugles. you could get lucky and stumble into a rut fest over a hot cow. im not trying to rain on your parade but that is what ive found hunting elk in alberta especially if you are targeting a mature 6 point bull they are sneaky smart and very rarely will they broadcast their location. lots of times they will take 5-6 cows and disappear into the thickest brush they can find only to come out after last light and are headed to bed hours before legal shooting light. id say your best bet would be to take a few days off and set up some trail cameras if possible or maybe a friend in the area you plan to hunt ask them to set up some for you. all of my success has been from knowing an area intimately where the elk live eat & sleep what trails they take the wallows they use etc....


While not encouraging, I appreciate your honest feedback. I didn’t realize the elk were that hard to come by, this being my first year hunting them in Alberta.

And for the record I’m not expecting YouTube bulls that come running into calls. I’ve been at this long enough to know what’s realistic I’m treating the whole 8 day hunt as more of a scouting trip, in hopes that I can find somewhere to return to in subsequent years. Just trying to narrow down a wmu to commit to.


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Old 07-11-2018, 05:12 AM
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Always some elk in Dutch creek in 402. Hunt sugarloaf mountain you should see some elk. Now that the ATVs are not allowed up the trail the pressure should be reduced.
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Old 07-11-2018, 06:35 AM
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I've hunted 404 for the last few years, it's a tough go, especially given it's a 6 pt zone. A lot of the mature bulls I'm seeing these days are 5 pts and the elk #'s seem to be way down.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:35 AM
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Maybe I've missed it, but where are you located? I'd choose the zone you can scout the most, this summer.

Are you hunting solo?

I would pay attention to LKILR...they are one of the rare guys that hand out pretty generous elk info.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:47 AM
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Maybe I've missed it, but where are you located? I'd choose the zone you can scout the most, this summer.

Are you hunting solo?

I would pay attention to LKILR...they are one of the rare guys that hand out pretty generous elk info.
Blairmore, but currently out east for work and won't be back until my hunt.

I have one buddy committed, and another maybe.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:40 AM
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Everyone and their dog hunts Sugarloaf. Have fun with that.. Dutch creek is a quadders paradise... so that shoves the elk into the thick stuff and makes them real quiet. If your gonna hint that spot, put the bugle away and just use the cow reed.

I hope you like grizz.... cause he’ll like you. Lots o them around.
If you do bugle, be prepared to attract other hunters... 4 legged and two legged.

During rifle season, I unfortunately bugle more hunters in than anything else if it’s a thurs to Sunday ...


Having said that..... bugling in an elk can be done in 400 and 402.

Frenchman’s creek is pretty good.

Those two zones are stupid busy. Everyone wants the romanticized ‘mountain elk’ encounter.

Edson area is waayyyyyy easier to poke a bull.... but I live too far away.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:23 PM
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I did quite a bit of hunting and killed a small 4x4 bull in 402 8 years ago and will agree with a previous posts that its not an easy hunt and you should be ready for a grizzly bear showing up after a gun shot and also need to think in advance how to get an elk out from the mountains in the case you got it.
Its a big and heavy animal...
Tough area to hunt ,all what I can say.
Good luck!
S12
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:33 AM
Screamrider Screamrider is offline
 
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I did quite a bit of hunting and killed a small 4x4 bull in 402 8 years ago and will agree with a previous posts that its not an easy hunt and you should be ready for a grizzly bear showing up after a gun shot and also need to think in advance how to get an elk out from the mountains in the case you got it.

Its a big and heavy animal...

Tough area to hunt ,all what I can say.

Good luck!

S12

Thanks for the input on 402.

Strictly archery so not worried about gun shots

Also, while I appreciate your concern, I’m familiar with the size of an elk and this is not my first hunt - I’m fully prepared in terms of getting one out.


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Old 07-12-2018, 05:17 AM
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Everyone and their dog hunts Sugarloaf. Have fun with that.. Dutch creek is a quadders paradise... so that shoves the elk into the thick stuff and makes them real quiet. If your gonna hint that spot, put the bugle away and just use the cow reed.

I hope you like grizz.... cause he’ll like you. Lots o them around.
If you do bugle, be prepared to attract other hunters... 4 legged and two legged.

During rifle season, I unfortunately bugle more hunters in than anything else if it’s a thurs to Sunday ...


Having said that..... bugling in an elk can be done in 400 and 402.

Frenchman’s creek is pretty good.

Those two zones are stupid busy. Everyone wants the romanticized ‘mountain elk’ encounter.

Edson area is waayyyyyy easier to poke a bull.... but I live too far away.
Sorry if I gave your secret spot away. Your negative response tells me you don’t want any friendly competition. I doubt the mountain will be busy this year due to ATV restrictions. Only a few guys like you and me will actually take on sugarloaf on foot. There are elk up there and you know it. Trying to scare other people away with threats of grizz is ridiculous. I’ve packed out over a dozen bulls from 402 and never had an encounter with a grizz while dealing with the meat. I have left six bulls dead on the ground over nite out there and never had a bear touch them. Sugarloaf is a good place to start out for a newbie to the area. Lots of land can be scouted just by glassing from up there.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:20 AM
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Sorry if I gave your secret spot away. Your negative response tells me you don’t want any friendly competition. I doubt the mountain will be busy this year due to ATV restrictions. Only a few guys like you and me will actually take on sugarloaf on foot. There are elk up there and you know it. Trying to scare other people away with threats of grizz is ridiculous. I’ve packed out over a dozen bulls from 402 and never had an encounter with a grizz while dealing with the meat. I have left six bulls dead on the ground over nite out there and never had a bear touch them. Sugarloaf is a good place to start out for a newbie to the area. Lots of land can be scouted just by glassing from up there.


Always refreshing to get a helping hand and a few leads, really appreciate it - and I will absolutely pay it forward!

Thanks again LKILR!


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Old 07-12-2018, 10:09 AM
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While not encouraging, I appreciate your honest feedback. I didn’t realize the elk were that hard to come by, this being my first year hunting them in Alberta.

And for the record I’m not expecting YouTube bulls that come running into calls. I’ve been at this long enough to know what’s realistic I’m treating the whole 8 day hunt as more of a scouting trip, in hopes that I can find somewhere to return to in subsequent years. Just trying to narrow down a wmu to commit to.


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I’ve been chasing elk for 6 years and have not connected with a Bull. I’ve seen em, but connecting is another thing. They are smart, quiet and friggen sneaky. Hike in deep and get up high and glass glass glass. Luck will surely help.

Also, I’ve hunted deep in 400 and trust me... the rumors of a grizz in every valley are true. If you are spending a week hiking in the back country down there you will almost surley bump into one. Be prepared.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:33 AM
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Trying to scare other people away with threats of grizz is ridiculous. I’ve packed out over a dozen bulls from 402 and never had an encounter with a grizz while dealing with the meat. I have left six bulls dead on the ground over nite out there and never had a bear touch them. Sugarloaf is a good place to start out for a newbie to the area. Lots of land can be scouted just by glassing from up there.[/QUOTE]

Not trying to start a grizzly bear debate ,but we a had quite different experience in the past .
Bear arrived very soon after the gun kill and I don't want to say we were scared but a bit uncomfortable for sure
It was in November and probably not the case with a bow and arrow, but still its a lot of them there.
Be aware
S12
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by LKILR View Post
Sorry if I gave your secret spot away. Your negative response tells me you don’t want any friendly competition. I doubt the mountain will be busy this year due to ATV restrictions. Only a few guys like you and me will actually take on sugarloaf on foot. There are elk up there and you know it. Trying to scare other people away with threats of grizz is ridiculous. I’ve packed out over a dozen bulls from 402 and never had an encounter with a grizz while dealing with the meat. I have left six bulls dead on the ground over nite out there and never had a bear touch them. Sugarloaf is a good place to start out for a newbie to the area. Lots of land can be scouted just by glassing from up there.
That sure isn’t a secret spot. It’s had locals in and around it since the 1950’s.

My response is indicative of the following attitude.

Haunting is about getting out and learning an area, learning the quarry, learning their habits....... my impression of internet elk hunters tends to be that they are more about the result than the process.

If a guy hunts elk lots and is fit. One day of scouting will give him a good idea bout where to go.

Sorry..... you earn your elk and that’s unfortunately how I feel.

The process is possibly more valuable than the end result.


..... having said that..... I’m cooking elk steaks tonight and they’s Dang yummy!
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:13 PM
Screamrider Screamrider is offline
 
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That sure isn’t a secret spot. It’s had locals in and around it since the 1950’s.



My response is indicative of the following attitude.



Haunting is about getting out and learning an area, learning the quarry, learning their habits....... my impression of internet elk hunters tends to be that they are more about the result than the process.



If a guy hunts elk lots and is fit. One day of scouting will give him a good idea bout where to go.



Sorry..... you earn your elk and that’s unfortunately how I feel.



The process is possibly more valuable than the end result.





..... having said that..... I’m cooking elk steaks tonight and they’s Dang yummy!


Then why bother even chiming in? I’’m no less of an elk hunter than you as a result of looking for some general info on a new area I’ have never hunted.

And I wager a guess you spend way more time on the internet worrying about these things than I do.

Enjoy your steaks.


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Old 07-12-2018, 05:52 PM
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Nowhere did I say you were less of a hunter.

And I offered an alternate opinion about an area and about hunting goals.

I’m sorry if offering you an alternate opinion about an area and about hunting hurts peoples feels............


And no. I suuure don’t sweat stuff here on this interweb thing.


LKILR....... I think boasting about your lack of griz encounters is interesting.

I’m betting a lot more people have experienced different.

But that’s a thread derail.

Dinners on.
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Screamrider View Post
Then why bother even chiming in? I’’m no less of an elk hunter than you as a result of looking for some general info on a new area I’ have never hunted.

And I wager a guess you spend way more time on the internet worrying about these things than I do.

Enjoy your steaks.


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Chill dude.... Bessie has given me tips and offered help before. He only means well. Good AO for sure.

All he’s sayin is get out and check out some ground.

I feel like all one needs to do in 400 and 402 is find some high ground and scout/glass... sooner or later the odds will turn (at least I hope so)...
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bessiedog View Post
That sure isn’t a secret spot. It’s had locals in and around it since the 1950’s.

My response is indicative of the following attitude.

Haunting is about getting out and learning an area, learning the quarry, learning their habits....... my impression of internet elk hunters tends to be that they are more about the result than the process.

If a guy hunts elk lots and is fit. One day of scouting will give him a good idea bout where to go.

Sorry..... you earn your elk and that’s unfortunately how I feel.

The process is possibly more valuable than the end result.


..... having said that..... I’m cooking elk steaks tonight and they’s Dang yummy!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bessiedog View Post
Nowhere did I say you were less of a hunter.

And I offered an alternate opinion about an area and about hunting goals.

I’m sorry if offering you an alternate opinion about an area and about hunting hurts peoples feels............


And no. I suuure don’t sweat stuff here on this interweb thing.


LKILR....... I think boasting about your lack of griz encounters is interesting.

I’m betting a lot more people have experienced different.

But that’s a thread derail.

Dinners on.
I’m not boasting. Just putting out facts. I don’t mind helping the keyboard warriors because most don’t have the gumption to getter done in the mountains when it comes to bagging an elk. But I feel that Scream and Wiz have it. Pointing them in the right direction can’t hurt me😀😀. I’m confident enough to know my freezer will be full no matter how many other hunters on in the mountain. Can’t let some silly fear of big bad grizz keep me or some others from venturing into the mountains. Keep you head on a swivel don’t sleep on the trails. And ALWAYS carry some kind of firearm even if your confident bow hunter hope this is common sense. Good luck to all!!
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:01 PM
Screamrider Screamrider is offline
 
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Chill dude.... Bessie has given me tips and offered help before. He only means well. Good AO for sure.



All he’s sayin is get out and check out some ground.



I feel like all one needs to do in 400 and 402 is find some high ground and scout/glass... sooner or later the odds will turn (at least I hope so)...


While this may be true, the negativity just isn’t required. Really zero value added in doing so, that’s all. Anyway, not a big deal, and seems the norm on most forums these days.

That’s my plan for 400/402. The whole point of the thread was just to get some general info, which has happened, so thanks to all who pitched in.

Hopefully a successful trip report will follow in a couple months.




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Old 07-12-2018, 09:08 PM
shooter12 shooter12 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by Screamrider View Post
While this may be true, the negativity just isn’t required. Really zero value added in doing so, that’s all. Anyway, not a big deal, and seems the norm on most forums these days.

That’s my plan for 400/402. The whole point of the thread was just to get some general info, which has happened, so thanks to all who pitched in.

Hopefully a successful trip report will follow in a couple months.




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Don't forget to update this thread when time comes!
My friend just called me and looks like we are gonna spend some time in 404 .
He has a bull moose and cow elk draws .So , we will be hunting not far away from you!
Have fun Guys!
S12
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  #28  
Old 07-12-2018, 09:42 PM
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There's lots of uphill/downhill in 404. Try to be in the best shape possible. Good glass will find bulls that you can get to with a bunch of work, then close enough for the sharp stick is on you Good luck!!
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:58 PM
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also be aware that 404 was just logged so your e-scouting will likely be outdated. Just a heads up for when you get boots on the ground.
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Screamrider View Post
While this may be true, the negativity just isn’t required. Really zero value added in doing so, that’s all. Anyway, not a big deal, and seems the norm on most forums these days.

That’s my plan for 400/402. The whole point of the thread was just to get some general info, which has happened, so thanks to all who pitched in.

Hopefully a successful trip report will follow in a couple months.




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I’m scouting 402 in the next couple weeks. We can share notes
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