Letter to the ministers to reduce draw wait times.

[flyguyd]

Originally Posted by chuck

How is waiting for 15 years to draw a bull Moose tag promoting our sport?

You could always apply up north, 1 or 2 yrs wait

Took me 13 yrs to get drawn , know what , i survived and waited my turn. Even had alot of fun hunting other things inbetween

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by chuck

I'm going to send a letter to the Minister of SRD and Finance in regards to wait times for draws. I have the support of several like minded individuals and will be getting their signatures on the letter. If anyone has a suggestion on any additions let me know. Here are the points I will be making or requesting a change to.

1. Increase draw application fees with a suggestion of $10. This will insure those that feel the need to apply for themselves, their dog, their wife, and their aunt Gertrude just because they can to cover all bases and see what they can draw for will at least think about it first. And maybe they will decide what species they really want to hunt. It will also encourage a bit of research into the tag being applied for.

2. Increase tag fees for special licence "trophy" animals with a suggestion to start at $150. This will also ensure a second thought on what they want to hunt as well. It will also have me personally staggering draws to stay married and solvent. This in and of itself will decrease wait times. Despite the opinion of the 999 detractors. Again, this will also encourage a bit of research into the tag being applied for.

3. Either a mandatory purchase of the tag successfully drawn for within a certain time frame or a mandatory requirement to leave a CC # at the time of application and the automatic purchase upon successful application.

4. The mandatory reporting of harvest or non harvest and use of your tag. You will have to report within 30 days of the close of your season or will automatically forfeit your ability to apply for any draw or purchase of any tag the following year. If you forget, to bad, and you likely won't do it twice.

Feedback for your original post.

1 understands and support.

2 don’t understand.

3 seem to understand and support.

4 do not ageee, if we cannot hold administrators accountable how will making the individual accountable improve the process?

[diamonddave]

I'm not even going to read the three pages of bickering. Chuck your starting to act like Chris, just posting to create a division and a pee'in match. Your right and everybody else is wrong, it's getting old.

[huntingd]

Originally Posted by spoiledsaskhunter

talk about a divisive topic on a forum that is already rife with 'sportsman' (and I use the term loosely) tearing each other up at every opportunity.

do u guys lay awake at night trying to figure out how to raise hell on this forum?

this is one of the dumbest posts I have ever read here, and believe me, I sit at my computer and wonder what planet some of u live on!

poor, poor me! I cannot get drawn as often as I wud like to.......so I think i'll try to figure out a way to screw everyone over and write to my mla with a load of poor me (in the guise of trying to say something intelligent).

i'll probably get banned for this..............but chuck, u need to go for some counselling. why don't u just wait in line until it ur turn? everyone here gets treated the same in the draw system. there r no favourites, so what the h is ur b?

take a pill

Pretty much this ^. Its pretty sad to see. Good luck with the letter chuck.

[JFB]

Could you pls include in your letter to limit non resident Canadian hunting to Whitetail and Black Bear. Anything else should go through an outfitter. That would help out a bit I'm sure.

[bessiedog]

The rest no way.

We really do need to restrict what a 'resident' is.

I'd say a resident must provide 2 years proof of paying alta income taxes.
Plus two years of occupied residency?

Why two years?... Just cuz.

Don't price me and my kids out of an opportunity to hunt a resource that is as much mine as it is yours.

[flyguyd]

Originally Posted by ksteed17

I've yet to pay an access fee or anyone else that I've hunted there with. And I don't live there. Lots of land to hunt

Glad your so lucky. You get access on the Shoderee, the Birdseye or anywhere else next to the park without 1? Except maybe on Wellmans, he was always good about it

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by spoiledsaskhunter

talk about a divisive topic on a forum that is already rife with 'sportsman' (and I use the term loosely) tearing each other up at every opportunity.

do u guys lay awake at night trying to figure out how to raise hell on this forum?

this is one of the dumbest posts I have ever read here, and believe me, I sit at my computer and wonder what planet some of u live on!

poor, poor me! I cannot get drawn as often as I wud like to.......so I think i'll try to figure out a way to screw everyone over and write to my mla with a load of poor me (in the guise of trying to say something intelligent).

i'll probably get banned for this..............but chuck, u need to go for some counselling. why don't u just wait in line until it ur turn? everyone here gets treated the same in the draw system. there r no favourites, so what the h is ur b?

take a pill

This from a guy that can't put a complete sentence together?

[righand14]

What if every zone was put on a draw?
Right now I can hunt every species on a general tag within 2 hours of my house, (with archery equipment) while still applying for every draw. If I had to cash in my priority so I could still hunt those zones no question I would. Why should I get to hunt around my house while still applying for a draw to hunt by yours(down south for example)?
Do this and limit it to 4 draws so you can pick your targeted animal in preferred zone and go with it. I apply for sheep and antelope but really, right now would I be upset if I couldn't, not really.

imo it would clear up the system, everyone can get there desired draws sooner. no increase in price but if you draw it, you bought it.

Thoughts?

[lilsundance]

Well Chuck, Here's my take on it. You are complaining about you having so long between getting drawn. You forget about everyone else who applies in the same WMU as yourself having to wait the same time. Your asking others to pay higher fees so you can get drawn sooner. A lot of people probably may not be able to afford the higher prices. Remember higher prices will also drive up poaching as people will still feel they have a right to healthier meat and will feel the gov't is making hunting a rich mans sport like in the UK. As for limiting the number of times you can use 999 that will mess up a lot of people who do plan. My party of 4 is a prime example of that. We plan it so that 3 use 999 and 1 applies and gets a moose draw. We rotate so that we always have 1 get a draw in our area. Yes I know in time we wil have a skipped year because more are applying each year.
But here is the real reason your plan wont work. Alberta's population is expanding every year, and our game population is remaining fairly constant as a whole. So more people hunting for the same amount of animals is going to mean longer waits between getting drawn.
What we need to do is make SRD change what designates a resident. Take the Yukon as an example, you have to live there as a resident (Yukon Drivers license) for 1 year before you can hunt as a resident. We need to implement a system like that. Instead of stopping non-resident hunters applying for draws perhaps let them apply by themselves but have a set number per species that can be drawn. Lots of people here have family that no longer live in Alberta that like to come back and hunt with their father or brother. Drop guide allocations from 10% to 8% and strictly enforce that percentage. These things I have proposed probably wont help much in the way of draw waiting times in the long term, but it may be sustainable to maintain our hunting heritage before it becomes a rich mans only sport like it seems you want to make it for your own private gain. Of course this is only my opinion.

[ksteed17]

Originally Posted by flyguyd

Glad your so lucky. You get access on the Shoderee, the Birdseye or anywhere else next to the park without 1? Except maybe on Wellmans, he was always good about it

I've seen 2 elk get shot on the Birdseye no money whatsoever exchanged.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by diamonddave

I'm not even going to read the three pages of bickering. Chuck your starting to act like Chris, just posting to create a division and a pee'in match. Your right and everybody else is wrong, it's getting old.

Then you come up with a flipping solution. I have been writing, calling, writing, calling ministers, biologists, F&W, etc for years. Largely alone on many issues. Now I suggest that we start being responsible for what we have and I'm out of line? Sorry, but some of you need to look in the mirror. People can't have their cake and eat it too. I'm sorry

No one and I mean no one can explain to me why forcing people to prioritize themselves is a bad thing. Come on. I'll bet that most if not everyone on this thread pays at least $700 a year for a cell phone that they sure don't need. What about cable TV? Alcohol? Oh right, now everyone is a non drinker. I can probably find three people I know tomorrow who will say they can't afford a $150 tag for a Mule Deer, but guaranteed they will spend that at the bar this weekend.

The argument that we are taking away opportunity is another farce. I mean what a farce. Some of you guys need to look at the pools that are waiting in the wings. I want more opportunity and if someone is not disciplined enough to save $5 a month for a few years so he can by a tag is not that serious about hunting. And I could give a rats behind if he complains about it.

Come up with something better.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by flyguyd

Glad your so lucky. You get access on the Shoderee, the Birdseye or anywhere else next to the park without 1? Except maybe on Wellmans, he was always good about it

You have less than a clue about what you are talking about. At least get your facts straight.

[Speckle55]

Agree

David

Originally Posted by medicmoose

This is nuts there is plenty of opertunity in this province. We cant keep asking for more regulations and rules. Once again this board miss represents alberta and its outdoorsmen. Careful what you wish for.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by lilsundance

Well Chuck, Here's my take on it. You are complaining about you having so long between getting drawn. You forget about everyone else who applies in the same WMU as yourself having to wait the same time. Your asking others to pay higher fees so you can get drawn sooner. A lot of people probably may not be able to afford the higher prices. Remember higher prices will also drive up poaching as people will still feel they have a right to healthier meat and will feel the gov't is making hunting a rich mans sport like in the UK. As for limiting the number of times you can use 999 that will mess up a lot of people who do plan. My party of 4 is a prime example of that. We plan it so that 3 use 999 and 1 applies and gets a moose draw. We rotate so that we always have 1 get a draw in our area. Yes I know in time we wil have a skipped year because more are applying each year.
But here is the real reason your plan wont work. Alberta's population is expanding every year, and our game population is remaining fairly constant as a whole. So more people hunting for the same amount of animals is going to mean longer waits between getting drawn.
What we need to do is make SRD change what designates a resident. Take the Yukon as an example, you have to live there as a resident (Yukon Drivers license) for 1 year before you can hunt as a resident. We need to implement a system like that. Instead of stopping non-resident hunters applying for draws perhaps let them apply by themselves but have a set number per species that can be drawn. Lots of people here have family that no longer live in Alberta that like to come back and hunt with their father or brother. Drop guide allocations from 10% to 8% and strictly enforce that percentage. These things I have proposed probably wont help much in the way of draw waiting times in the long term, but it may be sustainable to maintain our hunting heritage before it becomes a rich mans only sport like it seems you want to make it for your own private gain. Of course this is only my opinion.

I am not complaining. I'm offering a solution. And for the 100th time. Why does a $10 application fee and a $150 licence cost make it a rich mans sport?

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by medicmoose

This is nuts there is plenty of opertunity in this province. We cant keep asking for more regulations and rules. Once again this board miss represents alberta and its outdoorsmen. Careful what you wish for.

I know exactly what I am wishing for.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The sad fact is, that I see no way to fix the situation. Making people pay for the tag if drawn would deter some people from applying, but there will still be people applying for draws that have no clue about the hunt,or even where they have to go to take part in the hunt. Some people are simply too lazy to do a bit of research before applying, and they could certainly care less if someone else that would go, misses out on an opportunity, because they drew the tag instead, and let it go to waste.

This is EXACTLY why increasing the tag and application price is needed. There has to be something that makes a person think at least twice before they apply.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by chuck

Then you come up with a flipping solution. I have been writing, calling, writing, calling ministers, biologists, F&W, etc for years. Largely alone on many issues. Now I suggest that we start being responsible for what we have and I'm out of line? Sorry, but some of you need to look in the mirror. People can't have their cake and eat it too. I'm sorry

No one and I mean no one can explain to me why forcing people to prioritize themselves is a bad thing. Come on. I'll bet that most if not everyone on this thread pays at least $700 a year for a cell phone that they sure don't need. What about cable TV? Alcohol? Oh right, now everyone is a non drinker. I can probably find three people I know tomorrow who will say they can't afford a $150 tag for a Mule Deer, but guaranteed they will spend that at the bar this weekend.

The argument that we are taking away opportunity is another farce. I mean what a farce. Some of you guys need to look at the pools that are waiting in the wings. I want more opportunity and if someone is not disciplined enough to save $5 a month for a few years so he can by a tag is not that serious about hunting. And I could give a rats behind if he complains about it.

Come up with something better.

access for all with out a bias on money. Wildlife is everyones resource. Using science to determine allocations then draws to fairly distribute that number .
No where does serious hunter enter into the conversation. I take a week off work in nov is that serious enough?? I know others that only get the odd weekend so they should have to fork out $$ on the chance to get an animal. What you propose is the beginning of the vicious circle.
I will not support your proposal . Well done on the effort and the though imo misguided.

[achtanelion]

Originally Posted by ksteed17

Will it deter a significant amount of people, I don't know. But if the tag price was increased and you knew you'd be charged either way and the application fee was already $7 more than usual then yes I believe it would make a difference without pricing people out.

How exactly is it supposed to make a difference without pricing people out? Raising the fixed and speculative costs so there are fewer applications would seem to be the very definition of pricing people out, wouldn't it?

[HunterDave]

Dear Minister,

I didn't get my draw this year so I'm writing to complain to you that the current system is broken. In order to ensure that I get drawn more frequently, could you please increase the cost for draws. That way people that cannot afford the increased cost will stop putting in for as many draws and those of us that can afford it will get drawn more frequently.

It's a good plan and I think that it'll work.

Sincerely,

Chuck

[Gagne]

Originally Posted by chuck

I am not complaining. I'm offering a solution. And for the 100th time. Why does a $10 application fee and a $150 licence cost make it a rich mans sport?

How is increasing costs for the reason of excluding people not making it a rich mans sport? You keep bring up people having cell phones, nice truck and so on. How does that mean they have all this extra cash laying around? Should everyone be living in mud huts, driving rusty old beaters, with no social live, just so we can get out and hunt every now and then?

[walking buffalo]

Good grief Chuck!

This concept of eliminating the lower income brackets of society as a way to increase licence availability for others is completely against the sole reason we even have Wildlife as a publically owned and available resource.

Hunting is NOT a "Sport" for many people. Big game are NOT "sport" animals.


While there is merit in having people pay a fair share for the cost of wildlife management and the access to this Publically owned resource, managing hunter numbers through economics only leads to one conclusion, limited access available only for those who can pay the highest price.


So Chuck, How many Minister's Big Horn Special Licences did you buy?

If so many people are so readily willing to pay $100 for the chance to draw a Cadomin tag, why aren't they buying the Raffle tickets? Most years a pile of these tickets are sold to one or two benefactors in order to sell them out. It doesn't add up that people want to pay $25 a shot for a chance when they are passing this opportunity by.

---------------------



There are many much more effective and sound changes to current wildlife management practices that will result in more hunting licences which will result in lowering the priority required to draw a tag. Here's one.



Anybody want a quick easy way to double the number of draw licences available for many of these "trophy" hunts?


GET RID OF THEM!


If we simply got away from this "Trophy" management mentality there would be many more licences available, especially for species such as Mule Deer.

Instead of offering a harvest of 3-5% of the population as is done for a "trophy" Mule deer area, lets issue the 10-15% that the population can biologically withstand thus maximizing the licence availability while reducing the draw wait times.


Yes, I can hear the hard core Antler hunters.....

[coolpete1]

sounds like you should move to a less populated area of the country so you can get your tags quicker, i agree with tightening up the rules on resident status and wouldn't issue non resident draw tags at all , but i see no need for me to pay more because everyone and there dog moved here and now wants to hunt here.

[missingtwo]

Originally Posted by diamonddave

I'm not even going to read the three pages of bickering. Chuck your starting to act like Chris, just posting to create a division and a pee'in match. Your right and everybody else is wrong, it's getting old.

I agree, except I don't know who Chris is.

[normanrd]

Originally Posted by muleyhunter7

I always wondered how a bunch of guys can cry so much and whine. didnt get drawn im emailing mla right now boo hoo. Why does everyone thing the world will change just cause they want it too just for them.

Hit the nail right on the head. IMO if people are whining about a system that allows everyone a fair chance at either drawing a tag or building priority, then they are just being greedy and selfish. If 2 people put in for 12 years and one person pulls a tag every 3 years but the other does not and just builds priority but takes the tag on the 12 th year and the guy who already pulled 3 tags whines about the "999"er, who is the real problem? For sure not the guy who pulled his one opportunity in 12 years! It's the whiner that continually cries "entitlement" and "guaranteed draw" and a snivells about the high priority 999'er.

Just selfishness, that's all.

Chuck, maybe you should spend your money on a new truck instead of offering to throw it away to the government and raise everyone's costs of trying to enjoy a sport in a system that is hard on whiners.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by normanrd

Hit the nail right on the head. IMO if people are whining about a system that allows everyone a fair chance at either drawing a tag or building priority, then they are just being greedy and selfish. If 2 people put in for 12 years and one person pulls a tag every 3 years but the other does not and just builds priority but takes the tag on the 12 th year and the guy who already pulled 3 tags whines about the "999"er, who is the real problem? For sure not the guy who pulled his one opportunity in 12 years! It's the whiner that continually cries "entitlement" and "guaranteed draw" and a snivells about the high priority 999'er.

Just selfishness, that's all.

Well said.

LC

[Doubledown]

You guys are on to something here! Raise the prices of Auto insurance/registration (to many people on the roads), school fees (solve the over crowding). Fishing, lets turn it all into a private enterprise, with massive fees to the government. Were do you DRAW the line with tarrifs and control? Its already nuts out here and your begging for more?

[Gagne]

Originally Posted by normanrd

Hit the nail right on the head. IMO if people are whining about a system that allows everyone a fair chance at either drawing a tag or building priority, then they are just being greedy and selfish. If 2 people put in for 12 years and one person pulls a tag every 3 years but the other does not and just builds priority but takes the tag on the 12 th year and the guy who already pulled 3 tags whines about the "999"er, who is the real problem? For sure not the guy who pulled his one opportunity in 12 years! It's the whiner that continually cries "entitlement" and "guaranteed draw" and a snivells about the high priority 999'er.

Just selfishness, that's all.

Chuck, maybe you should spend your money on a new truck instead of offering to throw it away to the government and raise everyone's costs of trying to enjoy a sport in a system that is hard on whiners.

Very well said.

[Cowtown guy]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

The rest no way.

We really do need to restrict what a 'resident' is.

I'd say a resident must provide 2 years proof of paying alta income taxes.
Plus two years of occupied residency?

Why two years?... Just cuz.

Don't price me and my kids out of an opportunity to hunt a resource that is as much mine as it is yours.

^This.

[PartTimeHunter]

Originally Posted by Doubledown

You guys are on to something here! Raise the prices of Auto insurance/registration (to many people on the roads), school fees (solve the over crowding). Fishing, lets turn it all into a private enterprise, with massive fees to the government. Were do you DRAW the line with tarrifs and control? Its already nuts out here and your begging for more?

Speaking of fishing. I'm thinking that maybe this thread was started by someone wanting to do a little trolling. Maybe?