Vinyl Tile install concern (Photos added)

[ÜberFly]

Gang,

I wanted to get some opinions on a recent vinyl tile install before I bring it up to the installer to see if my concerns are warranted or my expectations are/were too high...

We just returned from vacation last night and we had 18" commercial vinyl tile installed yesterday while we were away in our basement (plywood subfloor apron 300 sq ft)...

I did a walk through last night upon our return and noticed that the tiles are not consistently butted together (there is the slightest gap between some of the tiles). Is this normal? Or shoddy work? I can post photos if necessary. We have not paid for the work yet and I want to see in my concerns are warranted be fore paying or if my mind is still on vacation.

Thanks,

Peter

[Phshrmn]

Call back to the store and ask the salesman to come look at it. They should be tight. Take your time, engaging them right away so they know you're not satisfied . Every store wants you to be happy so they will fix it. Be clear. Be kind. Be persistent.

Sent from my STH100-1 using Tapatalk

[Kim473]

If some are and some not. I think they should be tight.

[sigma1]

Thats a big tile to keep 100 percent tight. If your floors are uneven at all it is impossible to keep all the edges tight. Sometimes its a trade off between small gaps or a big run out on the match. There should not be gaps on all sides thou.

[RBI]

Originally Posted by ÜberFly

Gang,

I wanted to get some opinions on a recent vinyl tile install before I bring it up to the installer to see if my concerns are warranted or my expectations are/were too high...

We just returned from vacation last night and we had 18" commercial vinyl tile installed yesterday while we were away in our basement (plywood subfloor apron 300 sq ft)...

I did a walk through last night upon our return and noticed that the tiles are not consistently butted together (there is the slightest gap between some of the tiles). Is this normal? Or shoddy work? I can post photos if necessary. We have not paid for the work yet and I want to see in my concerns are warranted be fore paying or if my mind is still on vacation.

Thanks,

Peter

You say " Commercial " vinyl tile , as in .. from a flooring company , vs the likes of Home Depot ? ... not a 59 cent per ft tile .
If the installer was from the flooring company , I would expect that he/she/they would be very good at their job , in which case , that's a sloppy job , that I would expect the company to redo .

If it was from the likes of Home Depot etc , then it was done by a sub contractor , and then it sounds about right .

Now saying that , I'll also say that there certainly are some good quality subs working with the big box stores .

But a fair bit of the work I've see done , from them . ( box stores ) isn't up to the quality standard of the full time flooring stores . ( any type of business that only does one thing )

Full time flooring stores are much smaller companies , and as such , have a tighter control on the install quality .

But even still , if it's through a box store , they too should redo it .

Probably a lot more hassle though .

And as , previously stated , when talking to whom ever is involved ... be firm , but keep calm .

My experience anyway ...

[ÜberFly]

From a flooring company/professional installer!

Originally Posted by RBI

You say " Commercial " vinyl tile , as in .. from a flooring company , vs the likes of Home Depot ? ... not a 59 cent per ft tile .
If the installer was from the flooring company , I would expect that he/she/they would be very good at their job , in which case , that's a sloppy job , that I would expect the company to redo .

If it was from the likes of Home Depot etc , then it was done by a sub contractor , and then it sounds about right .

Now saying that , I'll also say that there certainly are some good quality subs working with the big box stores .

But a fair bit of the work I've see done , from them . ( box stores ) isn't up to the quality standard of the full time flooring stores . ( any type of business that only does one thing )

Full time flooring stores are much smaller companies , and as such , have a tighter control on the install quality .

But even still , if it's through a box store , they too should redo it .

Probably a lot more hassle though .

And as , previously stated , when talking to whom ever is involved ... be firm , but keep calm .

My experience anyway ...

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by ÜberFly

From a flooring company/professional installer!

The company will have a sales rep / installation supervisor. Have them come out and take a look. The joints should be flush and really shouldn't have any gaps. Are we talking the thickness of a razor blade? thickness of a nickel?

Don't feel awkward about it, you paid for a product and a service and there are installation standards that you can reference back to. For ceramic tile I use the TTMAC standards. Haven't had to deal with vinyl so will do some checking.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by sigma1

Thats a big tile to keep 100 percent tight. If your floors are uneven at all it is impossible to keep all the edges tight. Sometimes its a trade off between small gaps or a big run out on the match. There should not be gaps on all sides thou.

This.

But post pictures because we don't know how big the gaps are.

We do all types of vinyl plank and tile and I can say that rarely are we 100% satisfied with gaps / joint tightness due to either floor being uneven or minuscule differences in tile size. (I mean if a tile is out 1/100th of an inch, on 30 ft that can really make things crooked) I have seen VCTiles run out a good 1/8" on 15 ft due to an uneven floor. I have also seen noticeable differences in tile sizes, obviously a manufacturer defect.

[Wrenchface]

We recently had vinyl plank installed throughout the main floor of our house and love it. We previously had carpet mixed with lino so we had to install plywood subfloor where carpet was to make everything level. The installers took great care in leveling/feathering all seems and imperfections by sanding and applying leveling compound before laying a single plank. No gaps and no unevenness at all. It pays to get the job done right, maybe they didn't prep properly...

[ÜberFly]

Here are a few photos of the areas of concern.

This one shows the difference between what I would consider a tight seam, and one that I would say is not...



Kick plate under kitchen cupboard - The installer says he will definitely fix this one




This last one is to show how tight some of the seams are (what I would expect)



Anyway, the installer says based on the substrate (unevenness) and inconstant sizing of the tiles (not exactly the same size), he says this is as good as it will get, if it was a new install on new substrate he could get it consistently tight...

Thoughts?

P

[Who Da Fisherman]

If the installer is blaming the product of "inconstant sizing of the tiles (not exactly the same size)" then have the contractor contact the suppliers rep for a site visit.
WDF

[Newview01]

Was it done in a square pattern or a brick pattern? In my experience a square pattern is more likely to run out. Follow the gaps to the next tile. Was it laid out of place? Or are they truly difference sizes? Do the gaps get consistently worse as you move to the outside of the room?

[Ricki Bobby]

That is unacceptable in my opinion

[Opa]

[QUOTE=Wrenchface;3499343]We recently had vinyl plank installed throughout the main floor of our house and love it. We previously had carpet mixed with lino so we had to install plywood subfloor where carpet was to make everything level. The installers took great care in leveling/feathering all seems and imperfections by sanding and applying leveling compound before laying a single plank. No gaps and no unevenness at all. It pays to get the job done right, maybe they didn't prep properly...[/QUOTE

We had the same thing done, without a new subfloor. The installers used levelling compound and we ended up with superb job!!!! The job was done by a couple of young guys the I knew who specialized in laying flooring.

[ÜberFly]

Brick

Inconsistant gaps. Some are tight others not.

Did not use levelling compound...

Had my neighbour (general contractor) and my sister (just for a look) and they both said I'm making more of a big deal this it's worth...

P

Originally Posted by Newview01

Was it done in a square pattern or a brick pattern? In my experience a square pattern is more likely to run out. Follow the gaps to the next tile. Was it laid out of place? Or are they truly difference sizes? Do the gaps get consistently worse as you move to the outside of the room?

[Hooter]

Originally Posted by ÜberFly

Brick

Inconsistant gaps. Some are tight others not.

Did not use levelling compound...

Had my neighbour (general contractor) and my sister (just for a look) and they both said I'm making more of a big deal this it's worth...

P

Based on your pictures I'd be asking them to redo the job. I'm pretty particular, and that wouldn't pass my test. Perhaps your neighbour and sister have lower standards than you and I.

[Phshrmn]

Originally Posted by ÜberFly

Brick

Inconsistant gaps. Some are tight others not.

Did not use levelling compound...

Had my neighbour (general contractor) and my sister (just for a look) and they both said I'm making more of a big deal this it's worth...

P

I laid my own vinyl and did so because I want it perfect and commercial guys have to make a living and sometimes have to live with imperfections.

When done, I have some seams like yours, and even went back and re-laid a bunch. It still ended up with some gaps like yours despite my ensuring every gap was tight as I went. I concluded that tightening each gap as I went resulted in slight movements of the tile since it is not glued. I tapped tiles to tighten the gaps and loosened old seams as I progressed. It's frustrating but without gluing, I doubt perfect seams are possible. And over time, my tiles shift and the gaps change.

I showed my frustrations to family members too. They all told me to lighten up. It looked good and no one cares about the imperfections.

You're right to ask independent opinions. And you're right to be prepared to live with imperfections. I'd likely live with what the floor layer says is good.

[ÜberFly]

Mine is glued!

Originally Posted by Phshrmn

I laid my own vinyl and did so because I want it perfect and commercial guys have to make a living and sometimes have to live with imperfections.

When done, I have some seams like yours, and even went back and re-laid a bunch. It still ended up with some gaps like yours despite my ensuring every gap was tight as I went. I concluded that tightening each gap as I went resulted in slight movements of the tile since it is not glued. I tapped tiles to tighten the gaps and loosened old seams as I progressed. It's frustrating but without gluing, I doubt perfect seams are possible. And over time, my tiles shift and the gaps change.

I showed my frustrations to family members too. They all told me to lighten up. It looked good and no one cares about the imperfections.

You're right to ask independent opinions. And you're right to be prepared to live with imperfections. I'd likely live with what the floor layer says is good.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by ÜberFly

Did not use levelling compound...

P

50% of the problem.

This is becoming more common. In times past sheet vinyl needed an absolutely perfect substrate otherwise all imperfections would telegraph through. With vinyl plank/tile most minor imperfections do not telegraph, thus the lazier installers are starting to skip this step.

I would make sure the store has noted your complaint, but give it some time, even turn the heat up down there a degree or two. It is surprising how many of those gaps would be filled, and cooler temperatures can compound any problems there are with trying to fit the tiles tight.

What is the brand of tile?

[ÜberFly]

Karndean Commercial

Originally Posted by Newview01

What is the brand of tile?

[The Cook]

Most installers I know use a laser to keep lines straight and all the installers I know will level the floor.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by ÜberFly

Karndean Commercial

Interesting. High end stuff.

Another thing we have had to do to rectify issues where there were different tile / plank sizes was use a colour-matched caulking to fill the gaps. Sounds like butchery but at least water is not an issue, and it doesn't look like a cheap job.

[Grizzly Adams]

Not gonna make a judgement, but vinyl has a high coefficient of expansion, the bigger the tile, the more so.

Grizz

[reddeerguy2015]

We have vinyl plank. Glued. New house (moved in Oct).

We've had the installer (Central Alberta Flooring) come out several times to fix little imperfections like you've mentioned. It takes some time to find them all.

My rule is, if I can feel something with my bare feet when walking across the floor, it needs to be fixed.

So far they've been out about three times, but the floor is nearly perfect now.

So yah - depends i guess how adamant you are on having a perfect floor (my wife would take nothing but perfect for an answer, they know her on a first name basis lol).

Also depends what the installer considers "good". Enough pressure from you, then *perfect* will be "good" for them.

You're paying for a professional - make them live up to it.

[dodger]

Originally Posted by The Cook

Most installers I know use a laser to keep lines straight and all the installers I know will level the floor.

Yep.

Dodger.

[Heyupduck]

If that is high end floor tile, (and only if ) they did a lousy job. I know an installer who laid a room 75ft by 40ft with 12" vinyl tile ( with a pattern in ) who didn't have gaps that size.
The gaps will cause problems when the floor gets wet. Slowly but surely they will lift.

High end floor tile will not be out of size.

And... contact the manufacturer of the tile...ask them what they think the problem is, whether it is acceptable, whether it is their tile, or the installation.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Heyupduck

If that is high end floor tile, (and only if ) they did a lousy job. I know and installer who laid a room 75ft by 40ft with 12" vinyl tile ( with a pattern in ) who didn't have gaps that size.
The gaps will cause problems when the floor gets wet. Slowly but surely they will lift.

High end floor tile will not be out of size.

I've laid a room that size with cheap tile and great success. I've laid a 12x12 room with expensive tile and had issues. The price of the tile most definitely does not determine the consistency of the size.

[eagleflyfisher]

I'm a wood guy but occasionally install some luxury vinyl tile. Usually the commercial grade & Armstrong has been the go to. The product I have used is unbelievably accurate, makes install nice. If you know what your doing , have a keen eye making certain you have zero gaps then no problem.
Typically once you have a gap it will continue to migrate through the install causing nothing but grief & turn the install into a pain in the ass, continually trying to get the floor tight, all starting with that very first piece you left a gap or set slightly crooked.
i haven't used that particular product or seen your job but IMO a below average job.
If a few pieces are left over have a look to see how accurate they are, if perfect then you have answer on the install.

[sigma1]

I make a paste with a floor polish and very fine shavings and rub over the gaps to fill them in to seal so no water or moisture gets in there. Hides them right away. That is a little beyond typical contract installaton thou.

[goosejerky]

Go to Shamrock flooring in Calgary and pick yourself up some 'color rite' color matched filler and fill the gaps with it. It's waterproof and will make the gaps invisible.
A lot of vinyl tiles out there aren't perfect and vary in size ever so slightly, there's very few out there that go together perfectly. Chances are pretry good that the store ypu bought the product from has already had many complaints about the product but neglected to share that tidbit. The installer probably left a box or two of the product at your place (which they should have) take a bunch of the tiles out and lay them down on the floor to see if you could recreate the gaps if you can then you know what the issue is.
A lot of the faux tile products out there were actually produced in order to have a grout laid between them which would negate the issue you are havin because the minor imperfections wouldn't be noticeable.
Finally, as others have mentioned, vinyl plank is very temperature sensative. Any variance of more than a few degrees Celsius is going to leave substantial gaps or cause very noticeable lifting.
I would agree that the toe kick pic that you took is unacceptable. fill the minor gaps with the color rite and be done with it.