Another school shooting in the States

[sns2]

Originally Posted by chickensashimi

I know parents teachers who called the rc's on the parents for spanking kids, and the kid, he more than deserved it!
Kids need learnins, weather it's the open palm to the rear or principals in our daily affairs, we are the enabler society, now these kids push the limits further and further, with little to no consequence.

Not at all saying this didn't happen, but I wonder what the kid told the teacher in the case you mention? I've had to call Social Services based on what a student said about her Dad. They removed the children from the home. Turned out to be a total load of BS the girl was spinning. She was mad at her Dad so thought shed get back at him. Sickening, but I was bound by law to report. I see the mother in a store I frequent quite often. Thankfully, she never held it against me and knew I was just doing my job.

[SlimChance]

Originally Posted by sns2

I wonder if these declining crime rates are due to declining conviction rates and cops tired of wasting their time to see criminals get off? Just a thought.

I'm certainly no expert on the matter but it doesn't appear so. StatsCanada shows a steady decline in crimes reported to police and a correlating decline in homicide/violent crime (which wouldn't necessarily have to be reported to be noted by police). The US (and most of the West) shows the same thing, more or less.

If it was related to police indifference the drop in reported crime shouldn't change. If it was due to the public not reporting crimes, the homicide rate shouldn't decline alongside.

While I don't think a decline in morals is the answer, I do think exploring the difference in how people think or look at the world now vs. in the past could lead somewhere. Whether that's in relation to media exposure to other killings or inability to deal with adversity/rejection or something else.

[sns2]

Who knows? We are all just spitballing.

[elkhunter11]

If the statistics show a decrease in crime, I have to wonder if it is simply less people reporting crime, or less charges from the prosecutors, because people are realizing that our legal system is so pathetic, that reporting these crimes is just a waste of time and money?

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by 32-40win

Hard to say what is truth or fiction on a published part of the story I saw today, but, apparently he was rejected by one of the girls he shot, he kept asking her out, she kept saying no.

He should probably have left her alone after the first "no", or two.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by SlimChance

While I don't think a decline in morals is the answer, I do think exploring the difference in how people think or look at the world now vs. in the past could lead somewhere. Whether that's in relation to media exposure to other killings or inability to deal with adversity/rejection or something else.

We have a different society than we had in the past. In the past people were expected to conform to a standard of social normality. Anything falling outside of that spectrum was discouraged. After several decades of social change where everything and anything is encouraged we have created a selfish society where there is little conformity. Everything seems centered around individual rights as opposed to a unified social direction. It is leading to a fractured society where individuals and groups who don't get their way take it out on the rest of society or the individual who they perceive has infringed on whatever they feel they are entitled to. It's only going to get worse.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

We have a different society than we had in the past. In the past people were expected to conform to a standard of social normality. Anything falling outside of that spectrum was discouraged. After several decades of social change where everything and anything is encouraged we have created a selfish society where there is little conformity. Everything seems centered around individual rights as opposed to a unified social direction. It is leading to a fractured society where individuals and groups who don't get their way take it out on the rest of society or the individual who they perceive has infringed on whatever they feel they are entitled to. It's only going to get worse.

Great post. So true.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

We have a different society than we had in the past. In the past people were expected to conform to a standard of social normality. Anything falling outside of that spectrum was discouraged. After several decades of social change where everything and anything is encouraged we have created a selfish society where there is little conformity. Everything seems centered around individual rights as opposed to a unified social direction. It is leading to a fractured society where individuals and groups who don't get their way take it out on the rest of society or the individual who they perceive has infringed on whatever they feel they are entitled to. It's only going to get worse.

With our own governments refusing to deal with people illegally entering our country, and encouraging division among the various races religions and social groups, what else would we expect? Diversity has led to division, which just weakens society. When a person's very first action on Canadian soil, is to enter our country illegally, why would you expect that person to become a law abiding citizen? When our police stand by watching protestors assault people, and they do nothing, what kind of example does that set? When our own P.M. openly violates our laws, why would we expect the citizens to obey our laws? If we expect our citizens to obey our laws, our leaders, and our police, need to lead by example.

[covey ridge]

I think that thoughts are things and not all thoughts are harmless things. It seems right that thoughts are the private property of those who keep them. An imagination is a good and healthy thing as long as one imagines good things. For the most part we are all left alone with our thoughts and we are all left on our own as to how we manage our thoughts.

Pleasant thoughts can be a source of pleasure and evil thoughts can also also be a source of pleasure. Both types of thoughts can grow depending on how often they are visited and how they are fed. It is probably fun to imagine knocking the ball out of the park in front of an audience including friends and relatives and for some it may give pleasure to see the look of terror on the faces of those about to be slaughtered, especially for those who have not been kind.

The ancients used to teach that one should guard the heart or mind with all diligence for out of the heart or mind springs the issues of life. Some also also teach the discipline of removing all thought as in meditation. Some encouraged keeping only lovely, good and wholesome thoughts. Some taught not to go to sleep angry. Thought control or though discipline.

My point is I think there are more than a few people out there who are entertaining and feeding some really ugly thoughts and they are fed so often that they grow to a size that they want to bust out and become reality instead of just imagination. I do not think anyone will buy into thought management classes for everyone but I think some parents might spend a bit more time with their children and attempt to keep an eye on their child's thought process.

For sure thought police would not be popular, but I think there should be consideration to teaching skills as to how to manage thoughts and how to feed good thoughts and starve evil thoughts.

I do believe that nothing either good or bad can be done without the mind giving consent. One either controls their thoughts or the thoughts are in control.

[vcmm]

"
With our own governments refusing to deal with people illegally entering our country, and encouraging division among the various races religions and social groups, what else would we expect? Diversity has led to division, which just weakens society. When a person's very first action on Canadian soil, is to enter our country illegally, why would you expect that person to become a law abiding citizen? When our police stand by watching protestors assault people, and they do nothing, what kind of example does that set? When our own P.M. openly violates our laws, why would we expect the citizens to obey our laws? If we expect our citizens to obey our laws, our leaders, and our police, need to lead by example."
_____


^^^This is where respect for the most of the government and law goes out the window. If the so called powers that be won't follow the law ,why should the rest of the country. Look how crooked the US is. I don't even want to know how bad Canada is.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

With our own governments refusing to deal with people illegally entering our country, and encouraging division among the various races religions and social groups, what else would we expect? Diversity has led to division, which just weakens society. When a person's very first action on Canadian soil, is to enter our country illegally, why would you expect that person to become a law abiding citizen? When our police stand by watching protestors assault people, and they do nothing, what kind of example does that set? When our own P.M. openly violates our laws, why would we expect the citizens to obey our laws? If we expect our citizens to obey our laws, our leaders, and our police, need to lead by example.

Unfortunately it is a gov't sponsored breakdown of society supported by special interest groups who have no allegiance to anything. A society pointed in every direction with no central focus point. We are becoming a social anarchy directed by oligarchs.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I think that thoughts are things and not all thoughts are harmless things. It seems right that thoughts are the private property of those who keep them. An imagination is a good and healthy thing as long as one imagines good things. For the most part we are all left alone with our thoughts and we are all left on our own as to how we manage our thoughts.

Pleasant thoughts can be a source of pleasure and evil thoughts can also also be a source of pleasure. Both types of thoughts can grow depending on how often they are visited and how they are fed. It is probably fun to imagine knocking the ball out of the park in front of an audience including friends and relatives and for some it may give pleasure to see the look of terror on the faces of those about to be slaughtered, especially for those who have not been kind.

The ancients used to teach that one should guard the heart or mind with all diligence for out of the heart or mind springs the issues of life. Some also also teach the discipline of removing all thought as in meditation. Some encouraged keeping only lovely, good and wholesome thoughts. Some taught not to go to sleep angry. Thought control or though discipline.

My point is I think there are more than a few people out there who are entertaining and feeding some really ugly thoughts and they are fed so often that they grow to a size that they want to bust out and become reality instead of just imagination. I do not think anyone will buy into thought management classes for everyone but I think some parents might spend a bit more time with their children and attempt to keep an eye on their child's thought process.

For sure thought police would not be popular, but I think there should be consideration to teaching skills as to how to manage thoughts and how to feed good thoughts and starve evil thoughts.

I do believe that nothing either good or bad can be done without the mind giving consent. One either controls their thoughts or the thoughts are in control.

Spot on. The internet has allowed those with sick thoughts to find each other, and normalize their thought patterns.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Unfortunately it is a gov't sponsored breakdown of society supported by special interest groups who have no allegiance to anything. A society pointed in every direction with no central focus point. We are becoming a social anarchy directed by oligarchs.

We are the victims of social engineering. But it is our fault, since we elect leaders knowing full well what their agendas are. A party that openly resists this social engineering agenda would never get elected in Canada.

[SlimChance]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If the statistics show a decrease in crime, I have to wonder if it is simply less people reporting crime, or less charges from the prosecutors, because people are realizing that our legal system is so pathetic, that reporting these crimes is just a waste of time and money?

Likely not underreporting as non-reported crimes (like homicide) have fallen alongside crimes that need to be reported.

Definitely not on the prosecution end as the stats track reported crime and not convictions.

Originally Posted by Bushrat

After several decades of social change where everything and anything is encouraged we have created a selfish society where there is little conformity. Everything seems centered around individual rights as opposed to a unified social direction.

This is a really interesting idea. It kind of echoes sns2's morality idea but rather than individual morals we've lost a sense of social responsibility.

I'm not sure that you need conformity but I think you're on to something with the focus on the individual.

Originally Posted by covey ridge

My point is I think there are more than a few people out there who are entertaining and feeding some really ugly thoughts and they are fed so often that they grow to a size that they want to bust out and become reality instead of just imagination. I do not think anyone will buy into thought management classes for everyone but I think some parents might spend a bit more time with their children and attempt to keep an eye on their child's thought process.

For sure thought police would not be popular, but I think there should be consideration to teaching skills as to how to manage thoughts and how to feed good thoughts and starve evil thoughts.

I do believe that nothing either good or bad can be done without the mind giving consent. One either controls their thoughts or the thoughts are in control.

Another really intriguing idea. Makes me think of the intrusive thoughts that are associated with OCD etc. and how patients are taught to manage them.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by SlimChance

Likely not underreporting as non-reported crimes (like homicide) have fallen alongside crimes that need to be reported.

Definitely not on the prosecution end as the stats track reported crime and not convictions.



This is a really interesting idea. It kind of echoes sns2's morality idea but rather than individual morals we've lost a sense of social responsibility.

I'm not sure that you need conformity but I think you're on to something with the focus on the individual.




Another really intriguing idea. Makes me think of the intrusive thoughts that are associated with OCD etc. and how patients are taught to manage them.

One other explanation for crime rates supposedly falling would be how the government chooses to categorize and report crime. Every time a person illegally enters our country, they commit a crime. Every person that illegally protests, is committing a crime, but are these offenses being considered as crimes? Will May being charged be counted? When a protestor assaults someone, but is not arrested, the crime is likely not reported in the statistics. Those types of crimes are occurring at ever increasing rates, but they are likely not being considered in the statistics.

[Bushrat]

Another reason for low crime stats we see every day in court is criminals charged with numerous offences over time going to court and convicted of only a small portion of the crimes they committed. They might have committed 4 assaults, 9 break and enters and 7 auto thefts yet are convicted on only one to three of the charges. The other charges are dropped, in effect they didn't happen as far as crime stats are tallied, it all depends on how crime stats are tallied. Add to that the many people who don't bother to report crimes like assaults, thefts, frauds etc.

[SlimChance]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

One other explanation for crime rates supposedly falling would be how the government chooses to categorize and report crime.

That would mean that every Western government has redefined violent and property crime in the past 30 years and no statistical agency has realized it.

Every time a person illegally enters our country, they commit a crime. Every person that illegally protests, is committing a crime, but are these offenses being considered as crimes? Will May being charged be counted? When a protestor assaults someone, but is not arrested, the crime is likely not reported in the statistics. Those types of crimes are occurring at ever increasing rates, but they are likely not being considered in the statistics.

Illegal immigration is not a substitute for property/violent crime. Delinquent youth are not abandoning street crime in favour of illegal immigration.

Any property damage/violence/incident that is either reported to police or is witnessed by police is counted. There's certainly some that gets missed but if you're going to argue for including that you have to include the crime that got missed during, say, the Rodney King riots.

I'm honestly not sure how you're linking illegal immigration to mass killings carried out by native born citizens.

[SlimChance]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Another reason for low crime stats we see every day in court is criminals charged with numerous offences over time going to court and convicted of only a small portion of the crimes they committed. They might have committed 4 assaults, 9 break and enters and 7 auto thefts yet are convicted on only one to three of the charges. The other charges are dropped, in effect they didn't happen as far as crime stats are tallied, it all depends on how crime stats are tallied. Add to that the many people who don't bother to report crimes like assaults, thefts, frauds etc.

Again, crime stats are based on crimes reported or witnessed. Not charges. Not convictions.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by SlimChance

That would mean that every Western government has redefined violent and property crime in the past 30 years and no statistical agency has realized it.



Illegal immigration is not a substitute for property/violent crime. Delinquent youth are not abandoning street crime in favour of illegal immigration.

Any property damage/violence/incident that is either reported to police or is witnessed by police is counted. There's certainly some that gets missed but if you're going to argue for including that you have to include the crime that got missed during, say, the Rodney King riots.

I'm honestly not sure how you're linking illegal immigration to mass killings carried out by native born citizens.

Crime is crime, whether you are illegally crossing borders, or illegally protesting, or stealing, or committing murder or assault. The point is that society is more tolerant of crime, and the emphasis has shifted to protecting the criminals, rather than protecting society. And then the government will use skewed stats to claim that they are reducing crime, when the truth is, that more crime is occurring. This is all part of the social engineering that our governments are forcing upon us.

[SlimChance]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Crime is crime, whether you are illegally crossing borders, or illegally protesting, or stealing, or committing murder or assault. The point is that society is more tolerant of crime, and the emphasis has shifted to protecting the criminals, rather than protecting society. And then the government will use skewed stats to claim that they are reducing crime, when the truth is, that more crime is occurring. This is all part of the social engineering rhat our governments are forcing upon us.

Crime isn't just crime.

A Canadian citizen could go out tomorrow and:
- Commit a property crime
- Commit a violent crime
- Not commit any crime

A Canadian citizen could not go out tomorrow and:
- illegally immigrate into Canada.

If property crime and violent crime are falling, it cannot be because people are choosing illegal immigration as a replacement crime.

Either a) crime rates are actually falling or b) every state, provincial and national government in the West, every police department, every independent statistical agency and every academic involved in criminology is involved in a vast conspiracy to hide the real data.

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Crime is crime, whether you are illegally crossing borders, or illegally protesting, or stealing, or committing murder or assault. The point is that society is more tolerant of crime, and the emphasis has shifted to protecting the criminals, rather than protecting society. And then the government will use skewed stats to claim that they are reducing crime, when the truth is, that more crime is occurring. This is all part of the social engineering that our governments are forcing upon us.

Obviously, you haven't bothered to do any of your own research. Crime stats are broken down by type of crime, with downward trends in pretty much all areas.

Look it up for yourself, if you want.

[wildbill]

Originally Posted by sns2

Not at all saying this didn't happen, but I wonder what the kid told the teacher in the case you mention? I've had to call Social Services based on what a student said about her Dad. They removed the children from the home. Turned out to be a total load of BS the girl was spinning. She was mad at her Dad so thought shed get back at him. Sickening, but I was bound by law to report. I see the mother in a store I frequent quite often. Thankfully, she never held it against me and knew I was just doing my job.

Kids are like dogs, they only know what they are taught, and every so often they need need the fear of god put into them to remind them there are consequences.
My voice does more than any spoon or hand, rarely do I have to yell, it's the lecture that really gets them and explaining the consequences and asking them, is this where you want to end up?

[skidderman]

In the 50's, 60's & 70's my dads guns hung on a wall & he had no key to lock the house. Keys were left in vehicles even when parked in town. Never thought about theft much. Kids got bullied at school but we dealt with it each in our own way. We didn't die from it. And oh by the way we as kids played with toy guns & had great fun.

Something has drastically changed since & the guns didn't change.

Something, likely many things have fallen off the wagon since. Society either can't figure it out or doesn't want to be honest about the real issues. So sad!!!

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

Obviously, you haven't bothered to do any of your own research. Crime stats are broken down by type of crime, with downward trends in pretty much all areas.

Look it up for yourself, if you want.

Have you looked at the stats for the last three years? Which direction did the crime severity index go in 2015 and 2016?

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Have you looked at the stats for the last three years?

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/12-581-...00/cri-eng.htm

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/12-581-...00/cri-eng.htm

Exactly; after a steady decline for many years it increased in 2015, and then again in 2016.

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Exactly; after a steady decline for many years it increased in 2015, and then again in 2016.

What could possibly have influenced that?

Did morals decay suddenly? Was there a nationwide re-classification? Or was there an economic downturn?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

What could possibly have influenced that?

Did morals decay suddenly? Was there a nationwide re-classification? Or was there an economic downturn?

What happened to the economy in 2008? Why no rise in crime then? We also had a change in our government in 2015

[SlimChance]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And then the government will use skewed stats to claim that they are reducing crime, when the truth is, that more crime is occurring.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Exactly; after a steady decline for many years it increased in 2015, and then again in 2016.

How are you managing to argue that the crime rate has simultaneously increased and decreased over the past 30 years?

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

What happened to the economy in 2008? Why no rise in crime then? We also had a change in our government in 2015

So, it's the government's fault, and not a temporary fluctuation in a long term trend?

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-630-...015001-eng.htm