Federal Hunting and Fishing Advisory Panel - some thoughts

[avb3]

Recently, the Harper government advised they would make changes to the Fisheries Act, obstentially to facilitate the construction of pipelines and other resource development projects.

There was also a presumption that Canada's Fish and Game and Wildlife Associations would be silent on the issue as most hunters and anglers supported the Conservative's.

To this point, most, including the AFGA, have issued letters of disapproval with teh move. We are not sure how vociferous the opposition has been beyond those press releases and letters, but at least it is a step.

Now, Harper has announced a national hunting and fishing advisory panel.

Here is the Government's news release, which really doesn't give much detail.

This was part of the Conservative's election platform, so it is not a huge surprise.

My question is, how the heck does this advisory panel square up with the disastrous changes in the protection of fish habitat?

You can listen to a report here:

http://www.cbc.ca/video/watch/News/P.../ID=2240999544

[sikwhiskey]

Originally Posted by avb3

My question is, how the heck does this advisory panel square up with the disastrous changes in the protection of fish habitat?

http://www.cbc.ca/video/watch/News/P.../ID=2240999544

What disastrous changes to fish Habitat?
An advisory panel that reports directly to the minister, made up of actual hunters and anglers, is a good thing.http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum...d.php?t=759334

[avb3]

Originally Posted by sikwhiskey

What disastrous changes to fish Habitat?
An advisory panel that reports directly to the minister, made up of actual hunters and anglers, is a good thing.http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum...d.php?t=759334

Agreed, panel is good, however, changes to Fisheries Act is not. Even former Conservative Fisheries/Environment ministers say so, and a ton of scientists.

[Lonnie]

Originally Posted by avb3

Agreed, panel is good, however, changes to Fisheries Act is not. Even former Conservative Fisheries/Environment ministers say so, and a ton of scientists.

why do they need a panel for hunting & fishing they are controled by the provinces. look at what happened to the commercial fisherman after Ottawa took over the fisheries, they make stupid laws that are supose to help the east and screwed over the west and laws that screwed the east when they were trying to fix the west.they need someone to pacify the hunters and recreational fishermen, why? = cuase we the public are going to get screwed over.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Lonnie

why do they need a panel for hunting & fishing they are controled by the provinces. look at what happened to the commercal fisherman after ottowa took over the fisheries, they make stupid laws that are supose to help the east and screwed over the west and laws that scewed the east when they were trying to fix the west.they need someone to passify the hunters and recreational fishermen, why? = cuase we the public are going to get screwed over.

Fishing regs need to be approved by the feds and are reviewed every 2 years, so are joint provincial/federal jurisdiction. Migratory birds are covered by the Migratory Bird Convention Act subject to the 1918 Treaty with the U.S. and are federal jurisdiction. Only big game is exclusively provincial jurisdiction.

One has to look at the big picture.

[Lonnie]

then there should be 2 reps for every province & territory in the cuontry as each area has its own problems that need to be dealt with central goverment does not work. whats good for one is not good for all and how is this board going to be chosen I hope not by political appointment

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Lonnie

then there should be 2 reps for every province & territory in the cuontry as each area has its own problems that need to be dealt with central goverment does not work. whats good for one is not good for all and how is this board going to be chosen I hope not by political appointment

The link I provide in the OP (the government news release) outlines which groups will be on the panel. Take a look, I think you will approve.

[whitefish]

Originally Posted by avb3

What disastrous changes to fish Habitat?
An advisory panel that reports directly to the minister, made up of actual hunters and anglers, is a good thing.

What we have to remember here is changes to the Fisheries Act (and not just to habitat, but also to other sections that deal with contaminants and fish passage), are broader than just hunting and fishing. It speaks (to some extent) to how we manage our waterways in Canada. Hunters and fisheries (I'm one of each) have a say in this, but so do cottagers, farmers, industry, conservationists,......pretty much every Canadian.

My fear is that the panel is a diversion - sort of like getting rid of the penny or lets change our national symbol to the polar bear.

[walking buffalo]

I spent a couple hours on the phone this morning with one of the National Fish and Wildlife Conservation Congress lead organizers.

http://www.nfwcc.com/



This is where Harper made his speech introducing the advisory panel.


The fereral governments intends to completely dismantle science based environmental and human health protection, in the name of economic prosperity.

This advisory panel is lip service. Nothing but a cruel joke. Don't fall for the bait!


In a very short time details will start to come out regarding the specific legislative changes in the works. Nothing will be safe if it means potentially making a buck.


As an example, new legislation is being introduced that will make it ILLEGAL to publically report a Federally Reportable disease!

Anyone other than a government official publically announcing the existance of a Reportable disease will face jail time (two years) and a $75,000 fine.


CWD - Can't report it.
Viruses in Farmed Fish - Speak and swim with the fishes.
Tuberculosos - Didn't happen or your off to jail.
Bird Flue - Keep your beak shut.
Mad Cow - Talk and face government imposed SSS.



Harper is turning out to be a very dangerous man.

[sikwhiskey]

[QUOTE=walking buffalo;1468442]I spent a couple hours on the phone this morning with one of the National Fish and Wildlife Conservation Congress lead organizers.

http://www.nfwcc.com/



This is where Harper made his speech introducing the advisory panel.


The fereral governments intends to completely dismantle science based environmental and human health protection, in the name of economic prosperity.

In a very short time details will start to come out regarding the specific legislative changes in the works. Nothing will be safe if it means potentially making a buck.
QUOTE]

The Fereral Govt? Is that a typo? It fits lol, I think I'll wait to see the writen legislative changes before jumping to conclusions. Completely dismantling eviromental and human health protection is insanity.

[boku]

I too am concerned with how far the present Conservative governments, both federal and provincial, seems prepared to go to conserve business interests' rights to maximum profits.

As was noted in the AO magazine most of the funds proposed for environmental protection in the recent Provincial budget were defacto subsidies to the oil companies - using our tax dollars to clean up their mess so they can make their profit while they raise the price of gas at the pumps.

As a small-c conservative I am concerned with the implications of this budget bill and have been emailing my local MP.

[whitefish]

Originally Posted by boku

As a small-c conservative I am concerned with the implications of this budget bill and have been emailing my local MP.

Thats a very good point. We all should sit down with our local MP's, whatever political stripe and voice our concerns. Quoting someone in the media, we should put our Starbucks/Timmys down long enough to get involved.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Could be good...could be bad.

The feds have a way of screwing up and assuming that panel will be in Ottawa it'll probably be pretty heavy handed and ignorant of regional issues.

This could turn out like the LGR or maybe the Wheat Board...or be the best way to deal with poachers. Who knows?

Just seems like every time an advisory panel is brought together...it includes too many do-gooders with their own agenda.

So, how will I be represented?

I'm sure that the guides and outfitters will have a seat.
So will the animal rights groups and maybe some hunting groups from Ontario but how will that play out in the end?
Will PETA get a seat?
Green Peace?
Industry?


Will they decide that anyone that wants to hunt will need to join a group?
Will we have to hire guides?
Will they make all hunting licenses national?
Will the west be flooded with out of province hunters competing for the same tags and animals we already have too few of?

I'm hopeful that we will get better anti-poaching laws but I'm very cautious about involving other special interest groups and nameless faceless people elsewhere in my business here.
I'm pretty sure that handing off provincial prerogative to the Feds will be something we end up regretting later because that always seem to be the way it works out.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

I spent a couple hours on the phone this morning with one of the National Fish and Wildlife Conservation Congress lead organizers.

http://www.nfwcc.com/



This is where Harper made his speech introducing the advisory panel.


The fereral governments intends to completely dismantle science based environmental and human health protection, in the name of economic prosperity.

This advisory panel is lip service. Nothing but a cruel joke. Don't fall for the bait!


In a very short time details will start to come out regarding the specific legislative changes in the works. Nothing will be safe if it means potentially making a buck.


As an example, new legislation is being introduced that will make it ILLEGAL to publically report a Federally Reportable disease!

Anyone other than a government official publically announcing the existance of a Reportable disease will face jail time (two years) and a $75,000 fine.


CWD - Can't report it.
Viruses in Farmed Fish - Speak and swim with the fishes.
Tuberculosos - Didn't happen or your off to jail.
Bird Flue - Keep your beak shut.
Mad Cow - Talk and face government imposed SSS.



Harper is turning out to be a very dangerous man.

Hard as it is to believe... one guy with lose lips and having no clue what he is talking about can cause quite a panic and cost us a lot.

Those diseases are and should be reported through the proper channels and by responsible authorities.

When people scoop the system they can create such a mess that it can not be properly investigated.

It is better to allow credible verification or educated judgement to take the lead...and then develop a proper announcement than to have some guy beak off and panic people along with confusing the situation.

Trust me...the Medical Officers of Heath are NOT going to withhold information that endangers the public.
They care about people and take that responsibility very seriously.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by pesky672

Could be good...could be bad.

The feds have a way of screwing up and assuming that panel will be in Ottawa it'll probably be pretty heavy handed and ignorant of regional issues.

This could turn out like the LGR or maybe the Wheat Board...or be the best way to deal with poachers. Who knows?

Just seems like every time an advisory panel is brought together...it includes too many do-gooders with their own agenda.

So, how will I be represented?

I'm sure that the guides and outfitters will have a seat.
So will the animal rights groups and maybe some hunting groups from Ontario but how will that play out in the end?
Will PETA get a seat?
Green Peace?
Industry?


Will they decide that anyone that wants to hunt will need to join a group?
Will we have to hire guides?
Will they make all hunting licenses national?
Will the west be flooded with out of province hunters competing for the same tags and animals we already have too few of?

I'm hopeful that we will get better anti-poaching laws but I'm very cautious about involving other special interest groups and nameless faceless people elsewhere in my business here.
I'm pretty sure that handing off provincial prerogative to the Feds will be something we end up regretting later because that always seem to be the way it works out.

I gave the link in the OP as to who was on it. Here it is again.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by avb3

I gave the link in the OP as to who was on it. Here it is again.

Thanks...
What do you want to bet it ends with those federation morphing into a bunch of full time jobs and all of us having to join them to hunt?
Thats what Wendy C did...
I know they had to pick someone and the federations are made up of all sorts of stand-up regular rank and file members but any organization has their zealots and they always seem to be able to claw and browbeat there way to the top.

They do not represent all hunters.... and they have made overtures in the past that I was not exactly in love with.

This advisory panel might just become a bit of a frankenstein monster before we know it is even happening.

I'd rather they polled all hunters.

[Mekanik]

what was the quote i read in another thread:

"put all hunters in a room to figure out hunting regs and when they came out, hunting would be banned"

a few of those groups you can join and start putting your ideas forth and make sure your voice is heard. It's a matter of getting involved and speaking your mind until people listen.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by sikwhiskey

The Fereral Govt? Is that a typo? It fits lol, I think I'll wait to see the writen legislative changes before jumping to conclusions. Completely dismantling eviromental and human health protection is insanity.

Just a punch drunk typo. People who care about nature and the environment, and especially Nature and the Environment are taking a shyt-kicking right now at the hands of our Federal Government.

Originally Posted by pesky672

Hard as it is to believe... one guy with lose lips and having no clue what he is talking about can cause quite a panic and cost us a lot.

Those diseases are and should be reported through the proper channels and by responsible authorities.

When people scoop the system they can create such a mess that it can not be properly investigated.

It is better to allow credible verification or educated judgement to take the lead...and then develop a proper announcement than to have some guy beak off and panic people along with confusing the situation.

Trust me...the Medical Officers of Heath are NOT going to withhold information that endangers the public.
They care about people and take that responsibility very seriously.

Medical officers may choose to break the law, and I hope they will if neccessary, But they will be breaking the law soon if the feds follow through with their proposed legislative changes.


BC gov is ready to pass the lead up to the Fed legislation.


Here is the BC Bill.

BILL 37 — 2012
ANIMAL HEALTH ACT
http://www.leg.bc.ca/39th4th/1st_read/gov37-1.htm



An article on Bill 37

http://www.writersunion.ca/news/twuc...animal-disease

The Writers’ Union of Canada deplores government restrictions on communication of vital information
– Vancouver meeting of Canada’s writers calls for removal of muzzling clause –

Vancouver, May 30, 2012 – Buried within British Columbia’s proposed new Animal Health Act (Bill 37-2012) is a fresh attack on free expression in Canada.

If passed by the BC legislature at the end of this week, Bill 37-2012 will make it an offence for anyone to disclose the presence of a reportable animal disease in that province. The proposed act would provide for various penalties including a fine of up to $75,000 and/or a prison term of up to 2 years. Most alarmingly, the disclosure prohibitions and confidentiality requirements of this act would override the province's Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act.

"In addition to putting at risk the health of Canadians if animal disease goes unreported, this act infringes the freedom of expression including freedom of the press that is guaranteed by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and would have the effect of putting writers at risk," says Merilyn Simonds, newly elected Chair of The Writers’ Union of Canada (TWUC). "It's a particularly egregious example of the muzzling of both the press and public discourse, an alarming trend that is occurring across Canada in both federal and provincial jurisdictions."

She cites as another example, the Government of Canada's recent embargo on federally employed scientists, who may no longer talk to the media regarding their findings without permission. Earlier this spring, the Canadian Science Writers’ Association, the World Federation of Science Journalists, and several other groups sent an open letter to Prime Minister Harper, calling on him to unmuzzle federal scientists.

"We are disdainful of governments that limit public information and freedom of expression in repressive regimes around the world," Simonds points out, "and yet here in Canada, we see some of our governments pursuing similar policies."

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Medical officers may choose to break the law, and I hope they will if neccessary, But they will be breaking the law soon if the feds follow through with their proposed legislative changes.

Medical Officers of Health are protected within the Public Health Act and...have a direct line to thgeir federal counterparts.

For instance in Edmonton we have federal and provincial authorities concerned with Public Health and animal health.

If It has long been a matter of practice among professionals to report to the applicable agencies and let them decide how and when to make an announcement because they have a better overview of the situation and they may need toime to tie one positive case to others....before people have time to cover their tracks .

Yes... hard to believe but when this stuff comes up...people will try to foul the investigation with false info or by cooking the books.

Just look at what this lady did....

http://www.northumberlandnews.com/ne...-hastings-farm

[Mekanik]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Here is the BC Bill.

BILL 37 — 2012
ANIMAL HEALTH ACT
http://www.leg.bc.ca/39th4th/1st_read/gov37-1.htm



An article on Bill 37

http://www.writersunion.ca/news/twuc...animal-disease

well, now that's interesting. Perhaps they want to protect farmers from falsely reported madcow or aqua-culture scares that get markets shut down. Seems to be a poor way of doing it though.

[Ianhntr]

I was beginning to think that I was alone until I read this. Very well read man and right smack on. I would only add that this started before the current conservatives and is more deep rooted. By 2000 there was moves on to destroy dismantle environmental laws designed to protect everyone. Harper is just the man to allow everything through.
Wake up boys, everyone needs to get together. The current support that is being given to Harper and some of the provincial boys through some of the GFA's will cost us all big time in the long run.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Ianhntr

I was beginning to think that I was alone until I read this. Very well read man and right smack on. I would only add that this started before the current conservatives and is more deep rooted. By 2000 there was moves on to destroy dismantle environmental laws designed to protect everyone. Harper is just the man to allow everything through.
Wake up boys, everyone needs to get together. The current support that is being given to Harper and some of the provincial boys through some of the GFA's will cost us all big time in the long run.

Theres no doubt that Bill is chalk full of the stuff that dictatorships are made of.... the problem is... there are some good ideasin tghere to.

We need to get them to break it down and then start participating in politics beyond simply voting every few years.

Politicians in general are far to confident about their job security.
It's to the point now that we don't really have a democracy anymore.

Instead we have a series of short term dictatorships punctuated by a semblance of democracy every few years when we vote.

That's why it's more correctly called a democratic process and not a democracy per se.

Write letters... make em nervous and don't play party politics.... they ALL need a kick in the pants from time to time.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

People who care about nature and the environment, and especially Nature and the Environment are taking a shyt-kicking right now at the hands of our Federal Government.

I think you need to get out more.

This panel might not be a perfect approach, but I'd rather see them at the table than not. Bureaucrats don't do well if they are left to sort anything out on their own.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by pesky672

Yes... hard to believe but when this stuff comes up...people will try to foul the investigation with false info or by cooking the books.

Of course, they do. We've seen it. A committed granola warrior or other eco-zealot thinks they are doing a public service by fear-mongering at every opportunity. Facts are optional, it is only the ideology that matters.

That bigotry causes real injury to real people. It should be stepped on.

[sjd]

There's some seriously awful stuff buried in that Bill C-38 that rolls back conservation and environnmental protection in Canada by decades and barely a squeak on this board?

Fisheries Act (currently requires protection/mitigation for all habitat - will be replaced by "commercially important" fisheries only. Goodbye to protection for 90% of streams in Canada.

The environmental assessment stuff is also designed to shut down any opposition - the only people allowed to speak must be "directly affected" which means, if you don't own land next to a project, tough luck. Your favourite hunting and fishing spots get developed - sorry, thats not "directly affected" - you now get no say.

You've got former Conservative fisheries ministers saying this is outrageous and now former Red Deer Conservative MP Bob Mills saying Harper doesn't care about the environment.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle4239474/

And our silence has been bought by a spot on a hunting/fishing panel?

If the panel members have any integrity, the first thing they should do is resign en masse until Harper drops all the anti-conservation stuff he is trying to force through.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

Of course, they do. We've seen it. A committed granola warrior or other eco-zealot thinks they are doing a public service by fear-mongering at every opportunity. Facts are optional, it is only the ideology that matters.

That bigotry causes real injury to real people. It should be stepped on.

It's usually someone on the other end of things....trying to hide the problem but...it sure can cut both ways.

You want to see people panic?

Just mention asbestos around the workplace or a housing project.

Of course it is there... we all encounter dozens of products daily that contain asbestos in some form but... mention it and watch folks go into a spin because in their mind asbestos equals bad... regardless of the form or where it is used.

Mention BSE and the cattle industry would have a similar problem if... it runs away before credible authorities can get ahead of it... establish the facts... deal with it and then let folks know what happened.

If word gets out too fast... it benefits no one and the public begin to doubt the information that eventually trickles out because they expect instant answers...even though that isn't possible.

[Lonnie]

Originally Posted by pesky672

It's usually someone on the other end of things....trying to hide the problem but...it sure can cut both ways.

You want to see people panic?

Just mention asbestos around the workplace or a housing project.

Of course it is there... we all encounter dozens of products daily that contain asbestos in some form but... mention it and watch folks go into a spin because in their mind asbestos equals bad... regardless of the form or where it is used.

Mention BSE and the cattle industry would have a similar problem if... it runs away before credible authorities can get ahead of it... establish the facts... deal with it and then let folks know what happened.

If word gets out too fast... it benefits no one and the public begin to doubt the information that eventually trickles out because they expect instant answers...even though that isn't possible.

like I would trussed the goverment to.... establish the facts..... not going to happen whistleblowers are the thing that keeps governments and big business sort of honest

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by pesky672

You want to see people panic?

Just mention asbestos around the workplace or a housing project.

Yup.

And not a single one of them knows that there are various kinds of asbestos and white asbestos has never been more dangerous than fiberglass batt insulation. A lot of money was made on hype, though.

Some time we might talk about DDT....

There's things that pollute and/or don't biodegrade and those things need to be regulated and policed. No doubt about that. One the other hand, there's the propaganda from people with a very different agenda. It can get hard to tell who's who in the zoo without a lineup list.

I am sick and tired of bored billionaires from the U.S. and NGO's with a secret agenda trumpeting around Canada pretending they are friends of the Earth and those who build pipelines are trolls. Like Hugo Chavez, for example, sending an enviro-cover to oppose the Northern Gateway. Why do you suppose he wants to keep AB oil off the world market? Because Venezuela wants to protect it's own markets, d'ya think?

Zealots never look a gift horse in the mouth. I wish they all worked for a living instead of being paid to protest.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

I think you need to get out more.

This panel might not be a perfect approach, but I'd rather see them at the table than not. Bureaucrats don't do well if they are left to sort anything out on their own.

Just got back in. Where have you been lately?


The panel is irrelevant. A feel good gesture, like being given a piece of gum after the bully stole the whole pack from you.


Just one point of error of many about this advisory panel. It is impossible to have a valid national Hunting and Fishing panel without Aboriginal representation. The Charter demands it. The Aboriginal community was not invited to be on this Panel, on purpose. Any decisions made will automatically end up in court, due to a lack of 'consultation'.


This is just Harper style Trotsky Two Steppin'.



Pesky, you have missed the ramifications of the intended legislation. This is not about false reports. Confirmed reports will not be reportable to the public without Ministerial authorization.



That beer sure looks good!

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Just got back in. Where have you been lately?


The panel is irrelevant. A feel good gesture, like being given a piece of gum after the bully stole the whole pack from you.


Just one point of error of many about this advisory panel. It is impossible to have a valid national Hunting and Fishing panel without Aboriginal representation. The Charter demands it. The Aboriginal community was not invited to be on this Panel, on purpose. Any decisions made will automatically end up in court, due to a lack of 'consultation'.

No offence, but we have way too much aboriginal "consultation" on this, that and everything else already. The Charter does not demand it at all. The last thing we need on a panel like this is another agenda.

If you could put down that drum for a while, WB, I reckon you'd have a lot to offer on a panel like this. I've certainly read many posts from you that fit with my experience as someone who grew up in the bush. I think you know a lot more than most, regardless of heritage, and your instincts are good. But this panel was not formed to promote "aboriginal rights", whether hunting or something else, and I, for one, am glad of it. That's an issue for another day.

And where the heck did you find a graphic like that?