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Old 06-26-2015, 10:41 AM
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Default Shoulder Issue's -Shooting & treatments?

Shoulder Issue's -Shooting & treatments?

For those ...and I know there are a few that have/had shoulder issues what was the symtoms, how did it effect shooting and what was the treatment , excercise or precautions...

Warm up before shooting is a good idea...did a post covering that...
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=208397

However due to an injury this spring has been brutal for shooting for myself...

The injury...a caution in itself was due to removing a tree stand by myself...another bowhunter was in it the night before and heavier weight has sank a ladder rail deep into soft ground...I went to remove ladder stand as done as litterly hundreds of times before by myself...I was on ladder well below seat when I released main cargo/tension strap and in short ladder stand took off from tree...my feet were only 10 feet from ground and I tried to bail out and do parachute landing roll...which worked except for the old shoulder took a beating...


I walked away seemingly just fine...but months later it acted up..than more regular over the years...

I am asuming I did damage to my shoulder rotator cuff ...and as I age it comes and goes with issues...

This spring has been nasty to me...with an old back surgery combined with the shoulder issues...I believe arthritis is finding all my old injuries of our reckless generation with so many new toys.

Im not concerned with hunting as with warm up the first half doz arrows are fine...the second half dozen and Im wearing a lifting back brace...so a dozen arrows are Max for most days..

Again no problem thats all one needs ...however to shoot a round of target or more importantly a round of 3D like the ABA Hunter Challange...its not going to be possible to shoot a round of 20....let alone two rounds in one day the way things are...

Not going to surgery..painkillers are out...been down that road with back...
SO any suggestions on Therapy, excercises, treatment?

Thanks
Neil
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Old 06-26-2015, 10:46 AM
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not sure not a physiotherapist but I would say turn down your bow even more for target
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Old 06-26-2015, 11:07 AM
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not sure not a physiotherapist but I would say turn down your bow even more for target
That being also my obvious solution and my future I am sure... present bow is @66lbs and solo cam..drawing bow and holding,shot doesnt seem to be an issue...follow thru is quicker as I am not holding bow arm up as long...

Crazy thing is if I take a break it acts up way/days before I shoot and can feel great before, during and after...

The back compounds things and I know there is no fix...arthritis is there...I was hoping to slow the shoulder issue...without dropping bow poundage a lot right now...

Neil
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Old 06-26-2015, 11:15 AM
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my thinking is that a lower poundage will just get your strength back up in the shoulder and if it persists at the lower poundage you will need advice from a doctor
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Old 06-26-2015, 11:32 AM
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my thinking is that a lower poundage will just get your strength back up in the shoulder and if it persists at the lower poundage you will need advice from a doctor
Agreed
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Old 06-26-2015, 11:58 AM
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Stick bow.
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Old 06-26-2015, 12:05 PM
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Sorry to hear this...

You need a referral to an ortho surgeon. MRI will tell them what tissue is the problem, cartilage vs bone vs ligament vs muscle. The treatments for each vary widely, from simple elastic band physio exercises, meds, supplements etc to full shoulder replacement. I've been through it, glad I did, stronger and shooting better than ever. I still do shoulder physio with every upper body workout (about 3x per week)

archery is an asymmetrical movement. Interesting side note: archeologists can tell which Mongol remains belonged to archers, due to the physiological changes caused by repeatedly drawing a bow. So realistically, to avoid problems you have to be strong enough that shooting a bow is below the threshold that would cause a stimulus for adaptation. MUCH easier said than done and it's difficult to tell when you have reached that level, because shooting will always fatigue different muscles on each side, at different rates.

Lots of different back and shoulder exercises with good form, building up slowly. Took me a year to go from difficult 65 lbs draw to comfortable at 70 (I think we were talking about this on tues)

Fix the problem, things get better. Leave it, things get worse and eventually there is no fix.
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Old 06-26-2015, 12:18 PM
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Stick bow.
...I dont even want to know what a Hernia with arthritis feels like...ha ha

Neil
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Old 06-26-2015, 12:22 PM
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Sorry to hear this...

You need a referral to an ortho surgeon. MRI will tell them what tissue is the problem, cartilage vs bone vs ligament vs muscle. The treatments for each vary widely, from simple elastic band physio exercises, meds, supplements etc to full shoulder replacement. I've been through it, glad I did, stronger and shooting better than ever. I still do shoulder physio with every upper body workout (about 3x per week)

archery is an asymmetrical movement. Interesting side note: archeologists can tell which Mongol remains belonged to archers, due to the physiological changes caused by repeatedly drawing a bow. So realistically, to avoid problems you have to be strong enough that shooting a bow is below the threshold that would cause a stimulus for adaptation. MUCH easier said than done and it's difficult to tell when you have reached that level, because shooting will always fatigue different muscles on each side, at different rates.

Lots of different back and shoulder exercises with good form, building up slowly. Took me a year to go from difficult 65 lbs draw to comfortable at 70 (I think we were talking about this on tues)

Fix the problem, things get better. Leave it, things get worse and eventually there is no fix.
Outstanding advise for those with those ongoing injurys....

Neil
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Old 06-26-2015, 12:45 PM
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Thanks for the advise...but my bad i made this clear like mud...

Crazy as it sounds its NOT the injurys that are the problem...

Its arthritis in those injurys... my back for example...two disks and a vertabra spur removed...worked like a charm ...walking next day... weight lifting weight in a month...strong like bull for 20 years...

Than a thing called age happened and anothor thing called arthritis hit...spreading thru every injury or part of my body that has been opened for any reason...surgery, cuts, breaks and plaine ole wear n tear

I live with a day to day pain that would send most to hospital or just plain cry...lol

The shoulder injury is healed its the arthritis in that injury that is the issue...

But there are treatments, excercises and things people do with these injurys that could help...

I got a PM for a treatment...mind drug free that just may be the answer...researched and made Doc appointment... Outstanding and thanks again...

However keep the info coming ...good stuff

Neil
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Old 06-26-2015, 01:04 PM
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Neil there is a natural product called Sierra Sil joint formula, London drugs sells it and health food stores, it has helped me out with arthritic pain, It worth giving it try, lots of ex athletes us it, it is the # 1 selling product in health stores.
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Old 06-26-2015, 01:08 PM
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Neil there is a natural product called Sierra Sil joint formula, London drugs sells it and health food stores, it has helped me out with arthritic pain, It worth giving it try, lots of ex athletes us it, it is the # 1 selling product in health stores.
Thanks ....noted and appreciated!!!

Neil
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Old 06-26-2015, 01:10 PM
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I got t-boned by a car in the summer of 2013 while I was cycling home in Edmonton. I went over the top of the car and came down on the spoiler and then into the road head and left shoulder first. I came out pretty ok. (road rash, helmet split but no brain/spine injury) I did however completely separate my left AC joint. Basically my arm and shoulder blade are attached to each other, but no longer to my collar bone. So my shoulder sort of "free floats" on my back and its only the musculature that holds it together.

It took me until November of that year to be able to pull my bow again and it wasn't until the following year I could get out and hunt with it. I have been working through strength, flexibility, and mobility in the shoulder ever since the injury. Today I can take my 70lb bow to the range and shoot it steady for 2 to 3 hours before my shoulder gets tired and I start shooting less well.

What helped me to the most was getting mobility back in the joint and building the muscles back up. Not only the main shoulder muscles (delts, traps, lats, pecs, etc) but the smaller control muscles as well including the rotator cuff.

If anyone is suffering with tight, weak, painful, or otherwise problematic shoulder feel free to PM me and we can chat about exercises and drills that help open the shoulder back up and get things moving again.
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Old 06-26-2015, 07:05 PM
albertabighorn albertabighorn is offline
 
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I know alot of guys with that injury being in the fight game a long time. Don't over do it, maybe even turn down that bow a little. Here's some easy exercises and a read on it. The guys use to do some of these and it helped them overall.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/sclark71.htm
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Old 06-26-2015, 08:08 PM
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I was born in 1958 if your my age I expect your elbow and shoulder is about
as worn out as mine.

Year ago I took a hit to my shoulder around Aug. and still haunt's me.
Think you know what I mean.

I can still shoot my bow ok out to 25 to 40 yards and its ok. I can still
see that far.

But if I raise my right elbow to like 90 degrees it feels like i'm holdin' on
to an electicric fence. Nerve thing i guess.

something broke a while back and still gets the pintch today.

Yea I know what you mean.


I understand.

Growin old is just old.

Young folks will never understand just how old getting old is.
It's very old.
Until your old you will never understand it.

So I guess what i'm saying is "dang" you have
got to get old!"

Or you can't understand it;

Then again a younger man can reply all about how it could be done.

Please feel free to respond. Younger men... dot dot dot.

Last edited by Bonescreek; 06-26-2015 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 06-26-2015, 08:40 PM
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Seriously some of us members here have been shooting for a
long time. some of us me anyway are getting on.

Many here have much to offer to help others and when we
are gone only the advertisers will be left. so now is the time
to ask questions.



As long as we are here we'll be more than happy to help.
Just ask.
That's what this site was all about when I first found it.

Last edited by Bonescreek; 06-26-2015 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 06-26-2015, 09:45 PM
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Hi Neil,I had a shoulder injury several years ago,had an operation and it seemed to be fine after it healed.However about 5yrs ago it started acting up again,I went to a Dr he gave me a cortisone shot.That lasted about 4 days than I was right back in pain again.This time I went to my family Dr and he sat me down and with a pen marked each spot on the front and back of my shoulder.He then injected each spot with cortisone.That was about 5yrs ago and its been fine ever scince.Maybe it will work for you too,easy fix if it does.Goodluck.Wilf.
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Old 06-27-2015, 08:03 AM
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Hello Neil
What worked for me was shockwave therapy. It breaks Down the scar tissue and then promotes healing. After partially tearing a tendon in my left shoulder, I had physio, cortisone shots, everything seemed to help some but only ended up with about 90% range. shockwave treatment have me the other 10% back. If your interested I will send u the contact info, he's in Edmonton. Let me know if u find anything for the age factor.lol
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Old 06-27-2015, 09:51 AM
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Try to get an appointment with Dr.Justin Leblanc at South Calgary hospital.
He recently did shoulder and bicep surgery on me. After 37 years of being a butcher shoulder was shot. Tore bicep tendon right off the forearm. He fixed both at the same time.
Before and after pictures were amazing. I am still heeling. But what a difference.
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Old 06-27-2015, 10:33 AM
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I feel for you......my horrible shoulder came from playing baseball and what my surgeon said was the worst sleeping habit (arm behind the head). I had cortisone shots that did make things feel great but only masked the problem. 1st thing you should do is go to a specialist and get diagnosed properly, next if your gonna keep shooting turn that thing down....i went from 70 down to 60 and that still is probably too much weight but im kinda hard headed. Hope it all works out for you !!!!
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Old 06-27-2015, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHOOCH View Post
I feel for you......my horrible shoulder came from playing baseball and what my surgeon said was the worst sleeping habit (arm behind the head). I had cortisone shots that did make things feel great but only masked the problem. 1st thing you should do is go to a specialist and get diagnosed properly, next if your gonna keep shooting turn that thing down....i went from 70 down to 60 and that still is probably too much weight but im kinda hard headed. Hope it all works out for you !!!!
I did the same,turned my bow down from 70-60 and shoot less arrows at a time.Seems to work well for me as well.
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Old 06-27-2015, 03:26 PM
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Some years back I had a rotator cuff injury. Other than opting for surgery, I was directed to have acupuncture. Only had to go once. Never had a problem after that. Since it was 30 years since I last pulled a bow, I decided to take it easy. I had the shop turn down my pull weight to 50 lbs.
Havent had a problem yet, but then I only shoot in sets of 5 with a max of 30 any given outing (sometimes less). I usually allow 10 min between sets. I've started lifting weights to strengthen my shoulders and arms. This I noticed sure helps.
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Old 06-27-2015, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow View Post
Thanks for the advise...but my bad i made this clear like mud...

Crazy as it sounds its NOT the injurys that are the problem...

Its arthritis in those injurys... my back for example...two disks and a vertabra spur removed...worked like a charm ...walking next day... weight lifting weight in a month...strong like bull for 20 years...

Than a thing called age happened and anothor thing called arthritis hit...spreading thru every injury or part of my body that has been opened for any reason...surgery, cuts, breaks and plaine ole wear n tear

I live with a day to day pain that would send most to hospital or just plain cry...lol

The shoulder injury is healed its the arthritis in that injury that is the issue...

But there are treatments, excercises and things people do with these injurys that could help...

I got a PM for a treatment...mind drug free that just may be the answer...researched and made Doc appointment... Outstanding and thanks again...

However keep the info coming ...good stuff

Neil
Kind of...you still have to know what tissue is causing the problem...acute/chronic/degenerative may change the options/timeline for therapy but different tissues require different strategy. Ex: you may think its joint degenerative arthritis, but the MRI may show a tendon that partially ruptured and healed incorrectly...left alone this can cause arthritis and more. Often diagnosis is made based on symptoms that can be caused by multiple issues, and then we hear stories of "tried that, waste of money, quack" etc. So i don't recommend a solution until the problem is known.

I know you will hate this, but....nicotine constricts the small blood vessels that feed all tissue. effectively stops healing. many ortho surgeons wont do surgery on smokers until they quit for months. also stresses the immune system. im not judging (i do plenty that aint good for me...mostly blondes ) ...just putting it out there.
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Old 06-28-2015, 07:07 AM
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A different perspective

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...tis-drugs.aspx
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Old 06-28-2015, 01:34 PM
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Though we are not, so far as I know, discussing autoimmune disorders.... many of the recommendations in that article (clean eating, getting proper nutrition, avoiding causes of inflammation etc) are certainly worth following.

The pharmacological (medication) advice is not applicable to the OP.
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Old 06-29-2015, 09:49 AM
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Wow ...a diversified ammount of things to look into...Made the Doc appointment to discuss some of the options and suggestions here...

Thanks for the info...

Meanwhile I am doing rotator cuff and shoulder Excercise program...

I cant believe how just #1 "pendulum swing" excercise helps...
from>>>
http://www.orthoinfo.aaos.org/PDFs/Rehab_Shoulder_5.pdf

Neil
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Old 06-29-2015, 11:16 AM
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Hope you get better Neil.

I suppose if worst came to worst you could always use a crossbow. LOL.
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Old 06-29-2015, 11:17 AM
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Hope you get better Neil.

I suppose if worst came to worst you could always use a crossbow. LOL.
LOL oh no you did....INT
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Old 06-29-2015, 11:32 AM
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LOL oh no you did....INT
Hopefully it doesn't come to that. Get well.
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Old 06-29-2015, 11:37 AM
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Hopefully it doesn't come to that. Get well.
lol...all I need is five shots...thats all the tags I will have at most...lol
That I will...thanks...appeciate it!!!

Neil
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