Enough for Goose?

[The Flint&Fly Guy]

just wondering how heavy a bow you would recommend for shooting geese. I am thinking about using my 30lb recurve, would that be heavy enough? the shots would be 20 or less yards. Oh, and I can hit a baseball at that range.

[catnthehat]

I have killed gees with a 40 pound recurve , but i was only pulling about 35pounds.
Sharp broadheads will do it.
Cat

[backyard]

I'm sure 40 lbs is min for hunting

[The Flint&Fly Guy]

Originally Posted by rpm360

I'm sure 40 lbs is min for hunting

ya, I wasn't sure if that was all hunting or just big game. i'll check it out. you think broadheads would be the head to choose?

[muzzy]

absolutely broadheads for hunting

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by muzzy

absolutely broadheads for hunting

X2..Some good turkey broadheads work well also...

Neil

[3blade]

heartland bowhunter did a show on geese last year, looked like a great time.

one day i will tag out early enough to try it

[backyard]

Originally Posted by The Flint&Fly Guy

ya, I wasn't sure if that was all hunting or just big game. i'll check it out. you think broadheads would be the head to choose?

did you find out what the min for hunting birds is?

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by rpm360

did you find out what the min for hunting birds is?

as Bird regs read..

"BOWHUNTING

Hunters wishing to hunt game birds with a bow and arrow, other than a cross-bow, require a Bowhunting Permit in addition to the other applicable licences."

AND under normal Bowhunting regs ...

A Bowhunting Permit is required by anyone who hunts big game, game bird, wolf or coyote with a bow and arrow. Bowhunters with appropriate general or special licences may hunt during the general seasons, archery-only seasons and primitive weapon seasons. A Bowhunting Permit is required in combination with a big game licence. In some areas of the province, hunters require special licences to hunt certain species of big game

Persons hunting big game must use an authorized bow and an authorized arrow. An authorized bow is one that is held, drawn and released by muscular power and has a draw weight of not less than 18 kg (40 lb.). This is the number of kilograms (pounds) required to draw an arrow of 71 cm (28 in.) to its head. An authorized arrow is one that is not less than 61 cm (24 in.) in length that has a tip that bears a head that is not intentionally designed to resist being withdrawn after it has penetrated an object. Furthermore, it must either have a solid, sharp cutting head of at least 7/8 inch in width, or a head that, when the arrow impacts, opens to present sharp cutting edges at least 7/8 inch in width.

In short to get a bowhunting permit one MUST have an authorized bow as stated above...

As I have always interpreted this...

Neil

[The Flint&Fly Guy]

okay, I just picked up a 50lb bow so that will be plenty!

[brohymn2]

It only says persons hunting big game must use an authorized bow. Unless I'm missing something. I have been reading electrical code for the past 3 hours so that's a good chance

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by brohymn2

It only says persons hunting big game must use an authorized bow. Unless I'm missing something. I have been reading electrical code for the past 3 hours so that's a good chance

It states... "A Bowhunting Permit is required by anyone who hunts big game, game bird...

To hunt under a Bowhunting permit one must have an "authorized bow" although it doesnt specify Bird Game...

I agree its not specific and should read as so...

Geese are like turkeys..,they are tuff so a 40 lb bow isnt all that much...we have 12 year olds just started shooting this spring already shooting 40 lbs...


Neil

[brohymn2]

Thanks for clearing that up neil

[petew]

Neil. you are adding words that are not there.
It does not say "To hunt under a Bowhunting permit one must have an "authorized bow" it says "Persons hunting big game must use an authorized bow and an authorized arrow"

As for needing an authorized bow to get a Bowhunting permit, you don't need to even have a bow. All you need is cash. To hunt BIG GAME under the authority of a bow hunting permit you need an authorized Bow and arrow as described.

[brohymn2]

That's how I interpreted it

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by petew

Neil. you are adding words that are not there.
It does not say "To hunt under a Bowhunting permit one must have an "authorized bow" it says "Persons hunting big game must use an authorized bow and an authorized arrow"

As for needing an authorized bow to get a Bowhunting permit, you don't need to even have a bow. All you need is cash. To hunt BIG GAME under the authority of a bow hunting permit you need an authorized Bow and arrow as described.

That's the way I read it.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by petew

Neil. you are adding words that are not there.
It does not say "To hunt under a Bowhunting permit one must have an "authorized bow" it says "Persons hunting big game must use an authorized bow and an authorized arrow"

As for needing an authorized bow to get a Bowhunting permit, you don't need to even have a bow. All you need is cash. To hunt BIG GAME under the authority of a bow hunting permit you need an authorized Bow and arrow as described.

You are correct on my opinion on how interpreted it ...but wasnt adding words ...posted exactally how it is printed in the hunting regs...

Also correct on buying a bowhunting permit..anyone can buy one...However it states if hunting big game or bird game with a bow...one must have that bowhunting permit... it states one has to use an authorised bow to hunt big game... and states what an authorised bow is...

The flaw as stated is it leaves out bird game in the bowhunting regs with the
written point "Persons hunting big game must use an authorized bow and an authorized arrow" and goes on to stipulate an authorised bow...

If an authorised bow was different for bird game for example it would most likely mention that fact...

So with what we have for interpretion in the regulations is the authorised bow used for hunting under a bowhunting permit..which is needed for both Big game and bird game...

If anyone needs to hear it from an authority on the hunting regulations...
Information Centre ........ 780-944-0313
Toll Free ..................... 1-877-944-0313
E-mail .............. esrd.info-centre@gov.ab.ca

let us know if it is different!!!


Neil

[walking buffalo]

The Wildlife Act (Not the Hunting Regulation Synopsis) is the source needed to be used for this discussion.

There is no "Flaw" in the wording. It is written as intended. Hunting Game Birds and Migratory Birds does not have the same weapons restrictions as Hunting Big Game. A 30 lb bow is legal to use for Birds....



https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/laws/st...00-c-w-10.html

Schedule
Items Prohibited for Hunting Purposes

Item 1 Items prohibited for hunting all wildlife
1 An arrow equipped with an explosive head.
2 A swivel set or spring gun.
3 A firearm that is capable of firing more than one bullet during one pressure of the trigger or a firearm that can be altered to operate as such. This subitem prevails in the event of any conflict with the exception in subitem 10.
4 A poisonous substance described in section 32(5) or an immobilizing drug.
5 A light.
6 Repealed AR 134/2002 s17.
7 A shotgun of a gauge greater than 10 gauge.
8 A device designed to deaden the sound of the report of a firearm.
9 Recorded wildlife calls or sounds or an electronically operated calling device, except where a person is hunting
(a) migratory game birds with the use of calls or sounds that mimic snow geese, or
(b) crows, magpies, coyotes, red foxes or wolves with the use of calls or sounds that mimic any of these kinds of animal or hares, rabbits or rodents.
10 A handgun, except a restricted firearm or a prohibited firearm of a kind that is a handgun for whose possession the holding of a licence and a registration certificate is required by the Criminal Code (Canada), where a person
(a) uses the handgun to kill an animal caught in a trap, or
(b) is in possession of that handgun only for a purpose incidental to that use or the reasonable expectation of that use.
11 Live wildlife.
[NOTE: In subitem 10, “restricted firearm”, “prohibited firearm”, “licence”, “registration certificate” and “handgun” have the meanings contained in section 84 of the Criminal Code (Canada) (excluding a handgun that is deemed not to be a firearm by subsection 84(3)(b), (c) or (d) of that Code).]

Item 2 Items prohibited for hunting big game
1 Ammunition of less than .23 calibre.
2 Ammunition that contains non‑expanding bullets.
3 An autoloading firearm that has a capacity of more than 5 cartridges in the magazine.
4 A shotgun having a gauge of .410 or less.
5 Any bait consisting of a food attractant, including a mineral and any representation of a food attractant.
6 Any arrow other than an arrow that has a tip that bears a head that
(a) is not intentionally designed to resist being withdrawn after it has penetrated an object, and
(b) is either
(i) a solid, sharp cutting head of at least 7/8 inch in width, or
(ii) a head that, when the arrow impacts, opens to present sharp cutting edges at least 7/8 inch in width.
6.1 Any cross-bow that requires less than 100 pounds of pull to draw the string or cable to its cocked position.
7 Any bow other than
(a) a cross-bow that requires 100 pounds or more of pull to draw the string or cable to its cocked position, or
(b) a bow that
(i) is held, drawn and released by muscular power, and
(ii) requires a pull of at least 40 pounds to draw an arrow 28 inches in length to its head.
8 A muzzle‑loading firearm of less than .44 calibre.
9 Any trap that could be used to hunt big game.

Item 3 Items prohibited for hunting game birds
1 A shotgun that is capable of holding more than 3 shells in the magazine and chamber combined.
2 Any trap that could be used to hunt game birds.
3 Any bait consisting of a food attractant, including a mineral and any representation of a food attractant.

Item 4 Items prohibited for hunting migratory game birds
1 A rifle.
2 A shotgun loaded with shotgun slugs.
3 Any other firearm using ball cartridges.

Item 5 Items prohibited for hunting fur‑bearing animals
1 The parts of game birds or big game that are fit for human consumption.
2 A leg‑hold or foot‑hold trap with a jawspread of 9 inches or more or with toothed jaws.
3 A hook or other similar device designed or used to capture an animal by impaling the animal.

[brohymn2]

Thanks neil

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

The Wildlife Act (Not the Hunting Regulation Synopsis) is the source needed to be used for this discussion.

There is no "Flaw" in the wording. It is written as intended. Hunting Game Birds and Migratory Birds does not have the same weapons restrictions as Hunting Big Game. A 30 lb bow is legal to use for Birds....



https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/laws/st...00-c-w-10.html

Schedule
Items Prohibited for Hunting Purposes

Item 1 Items prohibited for hunting all wildlife
1 An arrow equipped with an explosive head.
2 A swivel set or spring gun.
3 A firearm that is capable of firing more than one bullet during one pressure of the trigger or a firearm that can be altered to operate as such. This subitem prevails in the event of any conflict with the exception in subitem 10.
4 A poisonous substance described in section 32(5) or an immobilizing drug.
5 A light.
6 Repealed AR 134/2002 s17.
7 A shotgun of a gauge greater than 10 gauge.
8 A device designed to deaden the sound of the report of a firearm.
9 Recorded wildlife calls or sounds or an electronically operated calling device, except where a person is hunting
(a) migratory game birds with the use of calls or sounds that mimic snow geese, or
(b) crows, magpies, coyotes, red foxes or wolves with the use of calls or sounds that mimic any of these kinds of animal or hares, rabbits or rodents.
10 A handgun, except a restricted firearm or a prohibited firearm of a kind that is a handgun for whose possession the holding of a licence and a registration certificate is required by the Criminal Code (Canada), where a person
(a) uses the handgun to kill an animal caught in a trap, or
(b) is in possession of that handgun only for a purpose incidental to that use or the reasonable expectation of that use.
11 Live wildlife.
[NOTE: In subitem 10, “restricted firearm”, “prohibited firearm”, “licence”, “registration certificate” and “handgun” have the meanings contained in section 84 of the Criminal Code (Canada) (excluding a handgun that is deemed not to be a firearm by subsection 84(3)(b), (c) or (d) of that Code).]

Item 2 Items prohibited for hunting big game
1 Ammunition of less than .23 calibre.
2 Ammunition that contains non‑expanding bullets.
3 An autoloading firearm that has a capacity of more than 5 cartridges in the magazine.
4 A shotgun having a gauge of .410 or less.
5 Any bait consisting of a food attractant, including a mineral and any representation of a food attractant.
6 Any arrow other than an arrow that has a tip that bears a head that
(a) is not intentionally designed to resist being withdrawn after it has penetrated an object, and
(b) is either
(i) a solid, sharp cutting head of at least 7/8 inch in width, or
(ii) a head that, when the arrow impacts, opens to present sharp cutting edges at least 7/8 inch in width.
6.1 Any cross-bow that requires less than 100 pounds of pull to draw the string or cable to its cocked position.
7 Any bow other than
(a) a cross-bow that requires 100 pounds or more of pull to draw the string or cable to its cocked position, or
(b) a bow that
(i) is held, drawn and released by muscular power, and
(ii) requires a pull of at least 40 pounds to draw an arrow 28 inches in length to its head.
8 A muzzle‑loading firearm of less than .44 calibre.
9 Any trap that could be used to hunt big game.

Item 3 Items prohibited for hunting game birds
1 A shotgun that is capable of holding more than 3 shells in the magazine and chamber combined.
2 Any trap that could be used to hunt game birds.
3 Any bait consisting of a food attractant, including a mineral and any representation of a food attractant.

Item 4 Items prohibited for hunting migratory game birds
1 A rifle.
2 A shotgun loaded with shotgun slugs.
3 Any other firearm using ball cartridges.

Item 5 Items prohibited for hunting fur‑bearing animals
1 The parts of game birds or big game that are fit for human consumption.
2 A leg‑hold or foot‑hold trap with a jawspread of 9 inches or more or with toothed jaws.
3 A hook or other similar device designed or used to capture an animal by impaling the animal.

Ok but where does it say A 30 lb bow is legal to use for Birds.... its doesnt say you cant use dynamite either but I pretty sure its not legal...lol

Not being difficult...just we want to see either way...


Neil

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

Ok but where does it say A 30 lb bow is legal to use for Birds.... its doesnt say you cant use dynamite either but I pretty sure its not legal...lol

Not being difficult...just we want to see either way...


Neil

Yes, you are now just being difficult...

Our regulations state what is illegal, thus the regulations do explicitly state a thirty pound bow is legal for birds by not stating these weapons are illegal.



I'll nibble on the derail bait. Explosives (dynamite) is somewhat controlled under the Wildlife Act through the definition of firearm and other devices, and is thoroughly covered in other provincial and federal legislation, e.g. Firearms Act, Explosives Act. Generally such explosives are illegal to use without permits which explicitly state when, where and how the explosives may be used, and are generally illegal to use for hunting or killing wildlife, (with permitted exceptions for wildlife control such as Beavers) Feel free to search the legislations..... https://www.canlii.org/en/index.html

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Yes, you are now just being difficult...

Our regulations state what is illegal, thus the regulations do explicitly state a thirty pound bow is legal for birds by not stating these weapons are illegal.



I'll nibble on the derail bait. Explosives (dynamite) is somewhat controlled under the Wildlife Act through the definition of firearm and other devices, and is thoroughly covered in other provincial and federal legislation, e.g. Firearms Act, Explosives Act. Generally such explosives are illegal to use without permits which explicitly state when, where and how the explosives may be used, and are generally illegal to use for hunting or killing wildlife, (with permitted exceptions for wildlife control such as Beavers) Feel free to search the legislations..... https://www.canlii.org/en/index.html

lol...I assure you I am not...however to say "Our regulations state what is illegal, thus the regulations do explicitly state a thirty pound bow is legal for birds by not stating these weapons are illegal". ....is borderline Absurd...lol

It doesnt mention tube guns that shoot arrows either or hunt birds with a fieldpoint...or .....a very long list....doesnt mean its legal...Dynamite was a parody

What is does describe is a legal authorized bow...Under Bowhunting...bowhunting birds is bowhunting!!!

I am not saying I am 100% right or your 100% right until we see something in Absolute writting from a F&W authority is all open to interputaion and conjecture!!!

I would like to know also...if its otherwise

Neil

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

lol...I assure you I am not...however to say "Our regulations state what is illegal, thus the regulations do explicitly state a thirty pound bow is legal for birds by not stating these weapons are illegal". ....is borderline Absurd...lol

It doesnt mention tube guns that shoot arrows either...or a very long list....doesnt mean its legal...Dynamite was a parody

What is does describe is a legal authorized bow...Under Bowhunting...bowhunting birds is bowhunting!!!

I am not saying I am 100% right or your 100% right until we see something in Absolute writting from a F&W authority is all open to interputaion and conjecture!!!

I would like to know also...if its otherwise

Neil

Put The Shovel Down!



Just as it is absurd to define a legal arrow by a minimum length for big game when there is no legislation requiring a person to actually draw a minimum length before releasing the arrow at game....


Ugh.... Blowguns/dartguns are covered under the Firearms Act.... even more specifically here.
Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited or Restricted
http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/reg...or-98-462.html


An "Authorized Bow" is defined differently for big game and birds.... As stated in the Wildlife Act.
Care to show me where the term "Authorized Bow" is used in the actual legislation?


A written statement from F&W would not hold anymore weight than a copy the regulations (Wildlife Act, etc.), judges have the final say on interpretation.... However when something is NOT defined as illegal, it is legal. For example, Do you need a law to specifically state is is legal to breathe?


Not good enough for you, Oh well.....

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

lol

Here is bowhunting as posted in Alberta hunting regulations posted on Alberta govement website... in full...

"BOWHUNTING

Note: The following applies to bowhunting other than with a cross-bow. Scroll down for information about hunting with cross-bows.

Except for the hunting of black bear, coyote, cougar or wolf under the circumstances as outlined under Access for Control of Livestock Predation, a Bowhunting Permit is required by anyone who hunts big game, game bird, wolf or coyote with a bow and arrow. Bowhunters with appropriate general or special licences may hunt during the general seasons, archery-only seasons and primitive weapon seasons. A Bowhunting Permit is required in combination with a big game licence. In some areas of the province, hunters require special licences to hunt certain species of big game – see season tables. A bowhunter who obtains an Antlered Moose Special Licence, Antlerless Moose Special Licence, Calf Moose Special Licence, Antlered Mule Deer Special Licence, Antlerless Mule Deer Special Licence, Antlered White-tailed Deer Special Licence, Antlerless White-tailed Deer Special Licence, Antlered Elk Special Licence, Antlerless Elk Special Licence or Landowner Special Licence may, if an early archery season is offered, hunt under the authority of that licence during the archery season but only in the WMU specified on the licence and only for the type and species of animal for which the licence was issued. Holders of a Landowner Special Licence are subject to the terms/conditions of their licence. Bowhunters are reminded that, in some situations, archery-only seasons for some species may be in progress at the same time as primitive weapon and rifle seasons for other species in the same WMU.

Persons hunting big game must use an authorized bow and an authorized arrow. An authorized bow is one that is held, drawn and released by muscular power and has a draw weight of not less than 18 kg (40 lb.). This is the number of kilograms (pounds) required to draw an arrow of 71 cm (28 in.) to its head. An authorized arrow is one that is not less than 61 cm (24 in.) in length that has a tip that bears a head that is not intentionally designed to resist being withdrawn after it has penetrated an object. Furthermore, it must either have a solid, sharp cutting head of at least 7/8 inch in width, or a head that, when the arrow impacts, opens to present sharp cutting edges at least 7/8 inch in width.
Hunters are asked to remove their tree stands at the end of the hunting seasons unless permission has been granted by the landholder to do otherwise."



Ones butt is at least is covered here...

Not good enough for you, Oh well..... lol
Neil

[The Flint&Fly Guy]

but it only says "Persons hunting big game must use an authorized bow" it does not say you need to use an authorized bow to get a bowhunting permit or hunt game birds.
hope you don't mind me joining this debate. it seems to be a good one!

[backyard]

to hunt anything you would need an authorized bow I would say

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

You are both correct...all are welcome...as stated...the flaw is nothing is stated ...as mentioned in Wildlife Act, RSA 2000, c W-10 ...my point is that is should be...regardless...

Just because its not in Wildlife Act, RSA 2000, c W-10 does not make it legal...


Neil

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Let me try to make this clearer ...feel free to correct me if I am wrong...

As I see it it reads...we all agree..."Persons hunting big game must use an authorized bow and an authorized arrow" yes for big game

Then immeadiately following it simply states what a authorized hunting bow is...

An authorized bow is one that is held, drawn and released by muscular power and has a draw weight of not less than 18 kg (40 lb.). This is the number of kilograms (pounds) required to draw an arrow of 71 cm (28 in.) to its head. An authorized arrow is one that is not less than 61 cm (24 in.) in length that has a tip that bears a head that is not intentionally designed to resist being withdrawn after it has penetrated an object. Furthermore, it must either have a solid, sharp cutting head of at least 7/8 inch in width, or a head that, when the arrow impacts, opens to present sharp cutting edges at least 7/8 inch in width.

Its not saying this is ONLY AN AUTHORIZED BOW FOR BIG GAME...it is stating WHAT an AUTHORIZED BOW IS...

[cap letter not intended for screamin but highlighting]

See what I am saying..
As a shop owner selling bows I have to try intruprate what is legal...I say 40 lbs to be safe...but being absurb if a customer came in and said he wanted a 10 lb bow for hunting migratory birds would that be ethical for me to sell that person a 10 lb bow...

Again not an argument or being difficult...I myself want/need to know!!

Neil

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

You are both correct...all are welcome...as stated...the flaw is nothing is stated ...as mentioned in Wildlife Act, RSA 2000, c W-10 ...my point is that is should be...regardless...

Just because its not in Wildlife Act, RSA 2000, c W-10 does not make it legal...


Neil

True, but only if other legislation states something is illegal, such as the use of dynamite or blowguns....

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

Let me try to make this clearer ...feel free to correct me if I am wrong...

As I see it it reads...we all agree..."Persons hunting big game must use an authorized bow and an authorized arrow" yes for big game

Then immeadiately following it simply states what a authorized hunting bow is...

An authorized bow is one that is held, drawn and released by muscular power and has a draw weight of not less than 18 kg (40 lb.). This is the number of kilograms (pounds) required to draw an arrow of 71 cm (28 in.) to its head. An authorized arrow is one that is not less than 61 cm (24 in.) in length that has a tip that bears a head that is not intentionally designed to resist being withdrawn after it has penetrated an object. Furthermore, it must either have a solid, sharp cutting head of at least 7/8 inch in width, or a head that, when the arrow impacts, opens to present sharp cutting edges at least 7/8 inch in width.

Its not saying this is ONLY AN AUTHORIZED BOW FOR BIG GAME...it is stating WHAT an AUTHORIZED BOW IS...

[cap letter not intended for screamin but highlighting]

See what I am saying..
As a shop owner selling bows I have to try intruprate what is legal...I say 40 lbs to be safe...but being absurb if a customer came in and said he wanted a 10 lb bow for hunting migratory birds would that be ethical for me to sell that person a 10 lb bow...

Again not an argument or being difficult...I myself want/need to know!!

Neil

You are wrong....
I see what you are saying, but you are simply wrong in extrapolating legal writings when inferring this description of a legal bow and arrow for big game applies to hunting wildlife other than big game.


"It is not saying this is ONLY AN AUTHORIZED BOW FOR BIG GAME...it is stating WHAT an AUTHORIZED BOW IS..."

NO!!!! Wrong! Wrong wrong wrong wrong......

The quote specifically states it is describing a bow and arrow authorized for the hunting of big game. There are no definitions of a legal bow and arrow for hunting other wildlife....


You darn well know that it is legal to use field points or rubber blunts when bowhunting grouse or gophers. This would be illegal under you interpretation of the definition of an authorized bow and arrow.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Ok doky thanks for your professional legal advise...