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Old 05-24-2020, 08:43 AM
renegadeg2 renegadeg2 is offline
 
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Default Buckled brass???

I Need help or guidance.

I'm relatively new to reloading, but have successfully loaded 223, 3006, 9mm...

Reloading 300wm yesterday,
1f brass.
Ladder load.
Case full length resized, bumping shoulder by 2 thou or so.

Seating a light 150gr bullet (so ignore the cannelure on the pic). Bullet seated 20 thou off the lands.

I prepped my seater with a dummy round before starting my batch of ladder loads. It looked absolutely fine, with correct measurements all over. Seated with crimp, which felt fine at the edge of the neck...(sorry, I dont have that pic). Using hornady equipment.


When I started to seat and crimp the powder-charged rounds (which is only 80% capacity of case)... this is what started to happen:


What gives???

Mind you, it was 2am and I cant identify what went wrong. I followed the hornady instructions exactly.

Please advise me.
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Old 05-24-2020, 08:44 AM
renegadeg2 renegadeg2 is offline
 
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Old 05-24-2020, 08:47 AM
renegadeg2 renegadeg2 is offline
 
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Btw
... any chance of recovering those messed up casings? Can I safely resize them and use them again? (After pulling bullet and dumping power charge ofoourse)
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Old 05-24-2020, 08:52 AM
Roamer Roamer is offline
 
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Are your cases all trimmed to the same length? If not that could definitely cause an issue.

Have your tried setting the die up for seating without a crimp?

I’ve never used the crimp feature of the Hornady dies, I use Lee factory crimp dies if I want to crimp.

I personally would not try to salvage those cases. I would break them down and salvage the components though.

Also, I don’t have any and don’t reload for any belted magnums. But they are different from the other cartridges you have reloaded for in that the belted magnums headspace off of the belt (as opposed to the head). Others with more experience in that arena may have more insight.
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Old 05-24-2020, 08:57 AM
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waldedw waldedw is offline
 
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You didn't say if the bullets were boat tail or flat base, I have had similar results with certain flat based bullets, they don't start into the case very good in the seater die and when you put pressure on them they buckle the shoulder just like in your picture, you may have to inside neck chamfer to get them to start without buckling.
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Old 05-24-2020, 09:00 AM
jeprli jeprli is offline
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You only adjusted seating stem, not the actual die. Take your dummy round, set the die first then adjust for bullet height, you should be good. Roll crimp is problematic if you dont trim your brass.

I've made same mistake when i started with my 3030.
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Old 05-24-2020, 09:08 AM
Tactical Lever Tactical Lever is offline
 
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Just a guess, but to me it looks like when you were doing the seating and crimping in one step, that you might have had your crimp set too early, and you had a good crimp and were still pushing the bullet.
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Old 05-24-2020, 09:16 AM
renegadeg2 renegadeg2 is offline
 
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The bullet was hornady interlock SP. Flat base.

Cases were within max and min specs, and varried by 2 ot 3 thou. That's not enough to cause this, right?

Brass did not need trimming, therefore I did not chamfer the mouth. I will do so and see how that works.
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Old 05-24-2020, 09:21 AM
renegadeg2 renegadeg2 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeprli View Post
You only adjusted seating stem, not the actual die. Take your dummy round, set the die first then adjust for bullet height, you should be good. Roll crimp is problematic if you dont trim your brass.

I've made same mistake when i started with my 3030.
Hornady process for seating with crimp is a blend of both adjustments. So no, I did not only use seating adjustment screw only. Hornady instructions are attached... it is simpler than that apparently long description.

I.e I adjust die so it does not touch case mouth. Adjust seater in increments. That sets the bullet seat depth. Than using that same round... set crimping to desired crimp, and restore seater setting. Than try one more round and double check.
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Old 05-24-2020, 09:30 AM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is offline
 
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Quit seating with a crimp
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Old 05-24-2020, 09:32 AM
Tactical Lever Tactical Lever is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renegadeg2 View Post
The bullet was hornady interlock SP. Flat base.

Cases were within max and min specs, and varried by 2 ot 3 thou. That's not enough to cause this, right?

Brass did not need trimming, therefore I did not chamfer the mouth. I will do so and see how that works.
I don't think that chamfering or lack thereof is an issue, as the bullets made it in the case. If they get hung up before you even get a bullet in, that would be a bit different. I like chamfering and deburring though, and will do that on new or once fired brass, after trimming. It might not need it, on brass that I didn't trim, but I like to clean it up a bit and in my imagination it makes starting bullets easier.

I don't see a need for trimming if it's not needed, although it may be nice for consistency sake after firing it once.
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Old 05-24-2020, 09:43 AM
renegadeg2 renegadeg2 is offline
 
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Thank you all. I will try seating only (without crimp). I heard that crimping improves performance so bullet does not leave case until pressure builds up... but that's a question for another thread
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Old 05-24-2020, 09:44 AM
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The crimp setting on your dies is what is causing this, no two ways about it. You have it set way wrong.

First off, you don't need a crimp, spin the seating die up, run a case to top of stroke, screw seating die down till it contacts the case mouth, back die out 1/2 turn. Use seater stem to adjust seating depth of bullet.

If you must have a crimp for some reason get a Lee crimp die and do it as a final step. If you want to use the Hornady die, you must have every case trimmed to EXACTLY the same length. Do above procedure, screw die down till it stops on the case mouth. set seating stem so bullet seats 1/100th longer than final, now lift the ram to move the case with seated bullet out of the way and turn the die down 1/8 of a turn. Run case with seated bullet back into the die and check how much crimp you get and COAL, go down a 1/16th turn at a time till you get the right amount of crimp. Do final COAL setting, longer or shorter with seater stem.

Yes you can resize those and reuse them with no problem.
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Old 05-24-2020, 09:46 AM
renegadeg2 renegadeg2 is offline
 
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Thanks dean.
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Old 05-24-2020, 09:51 AM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
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When you set it up you screwed the die body too far down, the bullet got crimped by the die body before you'd reached seating depth, and then the seating stem pushed the whole works down. Cases are now garbage when they've been folded like that, most likely wouldn't chamber anyway. If you are worried about neck tension, use a smaller expander button in the sizing die to increase tension, or a separate mandrel to expand. Crimps are for bigbore size cartridges and straight walls, not needed for that cartridge. Far easier ways to do it other than crimping.
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Old 05-24-2020, 10:01 AM
renegadeg2 renegadeg2 is offline
 
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Thank you all
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Old 05-24-2020, 10:08 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renegadeg2 View Post
Thank you all. I will try seating only (without crimp). I heard that crimping improves performance so bullet does not leave case until pressure builds up... but that's a question for another thread
Some people use a crimp as a bandaid, for not having proper neck tension. Forget the crimp, if the neck tension is not adequate, deal with that issue.
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Old 05-24-2020, 10:17 AM
303 Epps 303 Epps is offline
 
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I buckled some shoulders when I was using RCBS dies for my 303 Epps brass, once. What the issue was me trying to put a roll crimp and seat at the same time, with slightly inconsistent brass. It was all undersized, but varied by a few thou from case to case. Whereas I set the die to crimp on a shorter case, those that were a few thou longer were buckled.
I was able to resize them and reload after I figured out my error. I seat with the RCBS die and crimp with the Lee Factory Crimp die now.
I note that you were full length sizing, it is also an issue when neck sizing with Lee dies that an improper adjustment of the die and press will result in a buckled shoulder.
I can't post the pic of the instructions, but in the link below open the Collet die instructions and see the "buckled shoulder" section, it may be applicable in this case.

https://leeprecision.com/instructions.html
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Old 05-24-2020, 10:30 AM
blackburbot blackburbot is offline
 
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I noticed on my Hornady 300wsm seater it does the same. Noticed that the block inside that contacts your bullet doesn’t always slide and gets jammed somehow. Took the die apart and tried figuring it out. My Redding and Widden dies never do this.

I usually just tickle the block with a finger before each seating. Sure it adds time and effort, but too cheap/stubborn/Ukrainian to get a better set
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Old 05-24-2020, 01:48 PM
renegadeg2 renegadeg2 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackburbot View Post
I noticed on my Hornady 300wsm seater it does the same. Noticed that the block inside that contacts your bullet doesn’t always slide and gets jammed somehow. Took the die apart and tried figuring it out. My Redding and Widden dies never do this.



I usually just tickle the block with a finger before each seating. Sure it adds time and effort, but too cheap/stubborn/Ukrainian to get a better set
I confirm that this did happen in my setup.
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Old 05-24-2020, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackburbot View Post
I noticed on my Hornady 300wsm seater it does the same. Noticed that the block inside that contacts your bullet doesn’t always slide and gets jammed somehow. Took the die apart and tried figuring it out. My Redding and Widden dies never do this.

I usually just tickle the block with a finger before each seating. Sure it adds time and effort, but too cheap/stubborn/Ukrainian to get a better set
Well, the guide sleeve not sliding up properly would definitely do that too. Have a couple of sets of Hornady dies but have never had that issue with them. Good to know for future reference. Thanks.
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Old 05-24-2020, 03:42 PM
Tactical Lever Tactical Lever is offline
 
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I like crimping for the peace of mind, and all the reasons in the sales brochure...

I also prefer the Lee Factory Crimper. Easier to use, and I believe easier on brass than a roll crimp.
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Old 05-24-2020, 04:47 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactical Lever View Post
I like crimping for the peace of mind, and all the reasons in the sales brochure...

I also prefer the Lee Factory Crimper. Easier to use, and I believe easier on brass than a roll crimp.
The best peace of mind comes from measuring the case neck OD before and after seating a bullet, so you know that you have adequate neck tension. Many people have no idea how much neck tension their loads have.
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Old 05-24-2020, 07:23 PM
buckman buckman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Quit seating with a crimp
You said it 100% right.
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Old 05-24-2020, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
The best peace of mind comes from measuring the case neck OD before and after seating a bullet, so you know that you have adequate neck tension. Many people have no idea how much neck tension their loads have.
I doubt that many reloaders that are loading for “accuracy“ are running much more than .002” neck tension (measured as per Elk’s description). I would never even think of crimping unless loading for a tube magazine.
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Old 05-24-2020, 10:39 PM
Tactical Lever Tactical Lever is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
The best peace of mind comes from measuring the case neck OD before and after seating a bullet, so you know that you have adequate neck tension. Many people have no idea how much neck tension their loads have.
Maybe. I load a round, so that it withstands whatever poor handling and multiple loadings I inflict upon it.

I'll defer to your experience in tailoring very accurate custom loads however. What kind of difference in accuracy in your opinion does crimping make?
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