Notley in Pincher 11:00 AM tomorrow for Castle announcement??

[BG2016]

Closing the area gov. turned into a Prov.Park

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

You got it. Me first, best way to have it. More power to you.

Way better when you can have that AND take something away from someone else at the same time. Sweet.

The left wing nuts have perfected the art of divide and conquer...doing it with the outdoors fraternity is child's play for them...we do the heavy lifting ourselves...

[walking buffalo]

Do helmets block the view of the accumulated damage that OHV's inflict on the landscape?


Sorry guys, but the increase in OHV use has caused problems.
There are places where it needs to be curtailed, the Castle is such an area.

This does not make me anti-OHV.


There should be concern for just how far the government goes in regulating restricted use of the Castle area for motorized use, hunting, camping....
The PC's eliminated vast areas from OHVs and hunting, the NDP might be just as bad.

The Minister is sympathetic to the preservationists, not so much for the conservationist. Do your best to influence the final plan, it is not too late.

[silver lab]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Do helmets block the view of the accumulated damage that OHV's inflict on the landscape?


Sorry guys, but the increase in OHV use has caused problems.
There are places where it needs to be curtailed, the Castle is such an area.

This does not make me anti-OHV.


There should be concern for just how far the government goes in regulating restricted use of the Castle area for motorized use, hunting, camping....
The PC's eliminated vast areas from OHVs and hunting, the NDP might be just as bad.

The Minister is sympathetic to the preservationists, not so much for the conservationist. Do your best to influence the final plan, it is not too late.

Lol. Does long buffalo hair block the view of whats really going to happen?
This has a lot more problems than atv use.
Iam of the belief that all users of the castle can use our public land, that would be from gas, logging, camping, hunting, fishing, skiing, firewood cutting and atv use.

[Buckhorn2]

I hunt, I fish, I hike, i tent, camp, quad sled and bike. Alone and with my young kids. Why cant we leave the already designated and even the trails that are in place for quad and bike access? Instead of kicking the ohv out. Couldnt the money be better spent on enforcement? As in hiring more officers? Have officers assigned to a certain park/rec area? This would provide more jobs to the province. So is government turning this area into paid camping sites? What are their plans that would put money back into economy? That doesnt restrict a certain group of users that have been using this area for years. A ski hill? That not only destroys a large chunk of habitat but is something that we would have to pay to use?


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[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by silver lab

Lol. Does long buffalo hair block the view of whats really going to happen?
This has a lot more problems than atv use.
Iam of the belief that all users of the castle can use our public land, that would be from gas, logging, camping, hunting, fishing, skiing, firewood cutting and atv use.

Other than the hair comment, I agree.

And that is what I said.

[dshaw]

Originally Posted by Buckhorn2

I hunt, I fish, I hike, i tent, camp, quad sled and bike. Alone and with my young kids. Why cant we leave the already designated and even the trails that are in place for quad and bike access? Instead of kicking the ohv out. Couldnt the money be better spent on enforcement? As in hiring more officers? Have officers assigned to a certain park/rec area? This would provide more jobs to the province. So is government turning this area into paid camping sites? What are their plans that would put money back into economy? That doesnt restrict a certain group of users that have been using this area for years. A ski hill? That not only destroys a large chunk of habitat but is something that we would have to pay to use?


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x2! a little policing would have been all that was needed.

[KBF]

Originally Posted by dshaw

x2! a little policing would have been all that was needed.

Yes, instead what they did was hire a bunch of college kids for the summer, bought a bunch of new vehicle and put Alberta Parks sticker on them and had them drive around all summer. They made passes through the campgrounds and toured the back roads. Not sure what they were actually supposed to be doing. Never talked to them or see them talk to anyone. Probably at least 6 different vehicles doing this in several trips up this summer. Sometimes 2 different vehicles come through same campground within minutes of each other. Sure hope that Carbon tax don't hurt them at the pumps next summer.

[CNP]

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...89842127702245

As the President of the CNP QUAD SQUAD,I wish to express my embarrassment that some people showed our represented Government such irresponsible behavior at the Parks Management Announcement in Pincher Creek. This type of behavior in no way is condoned by the Quad Squad and serves absolutely no purpose. We urge all members to follow protocol and flood the government via the proper channels, by completing the on line public input, via mail or email to your local MLA, or direct to the Minister's Office. Give constructive criticism with your ideas on how OHV use can work in the Park under controlled and safe conditions. This is simply a draft plan and can be changed. It is not yet legislated. The Quad Squad will continue to lobby the Government along with support from the Alberta Off Highway Vehicle Association. Everyone is welcome to post their thoughts, but please do not post any malicious or threatening posts on our Face Book. We respect you. Please respect us.
Gary Clark
President of the CNP Quad Squad.

[Trailguy]

Originally Posted by CNP

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...89842127702245

Thanks will do

[MugEye]

Originally Posted by Buckhorn2

I hunt, I fish, I hike, i tent, camp, quad sled and bike. Alone and with my young kids. Why cant we leave the already designated and even the trails that are in place for quad and bike access? Instead of kicking the ohv out. Couldnt the money be better spent on enforcement? As in hiring more officers? Have officers assigned to a certain park/rec area? This would provide more jobs to the province. So is government turning this area into paid camping sites? What are their plans that would put money back into economy? That doesnt restrict a certain group of users that have been using this area for years. A ski hill? That not only destroys a large chunk of habitat but is something that we would have to pay to use?


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I agree . I think this is a problem for all alberta , the lack of authority in the bush . More respect is needed

[crawfy]

Originally Posted by JimPS

I'd be very happy to see exactly the same things and activities you want preserved, controlled but not eliminated because they are exactly the activities I have done both north and south of the Pass for a long time.

I'd maybe go one step further and say I'd support watershed protection, enhancement and management - because without that, you won't have the recreation values you and I both appreciate.

So when you say water shed protection does that mean you are saying that all ranchers should also not be able to free range thier cattle in there also

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by crawfy

So when you say water shed protection does that mean you are saying that all ranchers should also not be able to free range thier cattle in there also

[slickwilly]

Originally Posted by crawfy

So when you say water shed protection does that mean you are saying that all ranchers should also not be able to free range thier cattle in there also

Designating an area a wilderness park will definitely allow for re-evaluating grazing.
Not sure how much you have dealt with the province's range management people, but I've dealt with them some and been very impressed. They are stuck between a rock (trying to honour the deals they signed with ranchers years ago, based on outdated science) and a hard place (trying to preserve the ecology of an area while still keeping the land "working" for the public and making revenue).

This isn't an easy balance to strike.

[artie]

Gary Clarke might think he is going to get somewhere by sucking up to her but I doubt it. How many people were against the carbon tax but did it do any good. We fight among our selves and say lots of things on our forums that the public never hears or reads. The only way is to show public displeasure much like some guys who took the time to go and stand up for us. Filling out a form is not going to do you much good with this government.

[Myles]

This was the mentality of some OHV users in the Castle. Pics are from Lynx Creek.

Sign is supposed to look like:



After it was vandalized:

[KBF]

So they want to keep cattle off the alpine areas, off creeks, streams and river beds. So I guess that would mean a fence has to be built. Also raises the question who are the poor souls that are gonna have to do the work to do that? Fencing is hard enough work on flat ground and straight lines, never mind this terrain. I'm sure the idea of a fence also does not completely gonna sit well with animal groups on how it will affect wildlife and its travels.(yes I know there are fences up there, but very poor ones at that, and wildlife get by with them)

Seems to be a snowball effect. All sorts little things and costs they don't think of.

And they are gonna maintain trails and open new trail systems outside the park to take pressure off this area, who are they kidding, that won't happen.

They say that want to add water and power to existing campgrounds, how do you do that without putting in power and water without either trenching or power poles. Not to mention $$$$. I guess camping fees will have to jump dramatically from the 18-25$ a night to offset these costs.

Not sure how a happy medium can be achieved for all users

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by KBF

So they want to keep cattle off the alpine areas, off creeks, streams and river beds. So I guess that would mean a fence has to be built. Also raises the question who are the poor souls that are gonna have to do the work to do that? Fencing is hard enough work on flat ground and straight lines, never mind this terrain. I'm sure the idea of a fence also does not completely gonna sit well with animal groups on how it will affect wildlife and its travels.(yes I know there are fences up there, but very poor ones at that, and wildlife get by with them)

Seems to be a snowball effect. All sorts little things and costs they don't think of.

And they are gonna maintain trails and open new trail systems outside the park to take pressure off this area, who are they kidding, that won't happen.

They say that want to add water and power to existing campgrounds, how do you do that without putting in power and water without either trenching or power poles. Not to mention $$$$. I guess camping fees will have to jump dramatically from the 18-25$ a night to offset these costs.

Not sure how a happy medium can be achieved for all users

They should leave it as is.

Who asked for this new park system besides a group of people that probably won't use it anyways?

[KBF]

Originally Posted by Newview01

They should leave it as is.

Who asked for this new park system besides a group of people that probably won't use it anyways?

That's what I'm getting at. Enforcement would go a long ways. Besides if it weren't for the atv trails, where would the Bear study group put up their hair snares. Trail system seems to make great highways for bears.

[Joe Black]

In one news release Rachel said 22 new jobs would be created due to this. Funny how she can find reasources now to enforce her plan, but couldn't find them in the past when OHV's were part of the plan.


As for the quad group, I'm afraid he's wearing rose coloured classes if he thinks this is not a done deal. He even admitted that they did a 180 turn from the draft in September. What does that tell you? They will listen to concerns in good faith?

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by Myles

This was the mentality of some OHV users in the Castle. Pics are from Lynx Creek.

Sign is supposed to look like:



After it was vandalized:

Hey, at least they didn't shoot it full of holes like hunters do.

[Joe Black]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Hey, at least they didn't shoot it full of holes like hunters do.

Was a hunter. One shot from the side.

[JimPS]

Originally Posted by crawfy

So when you say water shed protection does that mean you are saying that all ranchers should also not be able to free range thier cattle in there also

"Free ranging" sounds like a term from an era when Alberta was part of the North West Territories.

It's not quite "free" for ranchers that graze public land anymore. The government and the public have a say in how management is accomplished and the primary goal for any development seems to be watershed management. It's not quite free anymore for random camping and "free ranging" OHV use either. Designated trails and camping areas are now the new plan.

The group Cows and Fish is a group that supports community based action for managing riparian areas and watersheds.

They've had very good success stories working with people, on "all sides of the fence" so to speak, protecting, enhancing and managing riparian areas and watersheds.

That's probably the water management science of the future - here with us now.

[Jadham]

Read/skimmed through most of the PDF.

The areas north, K-country in particular, are already a patchwork of Prov Parks, Wildland PP, crown, and designated OHV areas. Reading through, this seems to be the vision for here as well (OHV designated area not yet assigned according to the draft). Hunting is "congruent" with Wildland PP (their wording) so I think the fear of hunting disappearing is overblown.

I like 406, so I would be interested to see how this all pans out over the next 5 years. OHV and non-OHV are like oil and water ... they don't mix well. Things seem to be ok in 406 with MacLean Creek as the primary designated OHV area.

[Joe Black]

Your reference to Kananaskis is a good one. I agree that they are going to that model.

As for hunting, areas of kananaskis have no hunting areas, and some general seasons left(sheep i think), and the rest is on draw. Guides do well with allocations. For those who think the "general hunting" for the joe shmo Alberta hunter will not be affected, you are mistaken. it will be restricted.

[Newview01]

There is a poll on this subject at www.lethbridgeherald.ca

Take the time to vote.

[Klondike]

This is posted on the Crowsnest atv club fb page.


More bad News!!!!!
Okay, so here is the latest blow. Doug Cox (crowsnow riders) applied for a TFA for the poker run this weekend. It was to run from McGillvary Staging area to spoon valley. (Only trail out of McGillvary heading north) It was denied because of the Highland Parks, which is everything over 6,000 feet as at the top of spoon valley the elevation is over 6000 feet. We therefore have to go up Atlas Road. This will include OHV use in the summer, so our season opener will now have to be moved as that trail will be closed when you hit the 6000 foot mark, turn around and come back. Race Horse Pass will be closed as it is over 6000 feet along with many others such as window mountain etc. Not much consultation or information coming on this Park but it is expected to be legislated shortly. Where does this end?



So when did anything terrain over 6000 ft become a park?

[bessiedog]

Old news

They made the Enduro change their course a couple times to avoid the over 6000ft thing.

This was last summer. It's was pretty controversial as the designated fish and wildlife guy was supposedly not terribly cooperative I think.

[Joe Black]

See below. On the crowsnest Pass Quad Squad Face book/website. Make it if you can, and get in touch with them if you can help/have ideas to stop these changes.

Town hall meeting please pass on the word!!!!!!!!!!! Wade has set up a town hall meeting at Cowley community center on Feb 7th, 2017 at 7:00 at which time MLA Pat Stier will be in attendance. This is our chance for everyone to come out and voice their opinions. We are also trying to see if our MP John Barlow can also attend.


bessiedog, you want to car pool?

[Klondike]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

All I want are the ATVs restricted to pullling out critters or putting in camps.

Enforce random camping stays.... keep hunting and fishing... keep logging small scale... reduce oil and gas exploration.... and I'm good.

Do this and I figure there'll be plenty of critters for my kids.

I ask again.... what do you want to see?

WOW! I just want to take a moment to thank you for taking this position. At 1st I viewed your comment as very self and delusional. Like really, their goal seems to be to ban the atvs and restrict camping to a few small designated campgrounds. And yet here is this guy that thinks he should be able to use a atv within his narrow view of acceptable use to not only retrieve game but to set up a random camp that is getting restricted.

I started giving this more thought and reached an epiphany. If you can't beat em, join em. What would it really take. I already plan on grouse hunting this fall anyways. I just need to throw a few more things in the back of the side by side over and above what I carry now. A tarp and an old coffee can for a stove and I can use these very forums to show there are numerous threads on how fantastic and well this works. Pick up an old 30/30 or whatever old used rife I can get on the cheap. Pick up a few tags for whatever tags I can spread over the season and I good to go.

We all know that you don't run into fish 'n feathers all that often. When I do happen across them in the back country, depending on my direction I am either moving my camp in, out or to a different location. How can they prove otherwise.

Now you won't have to worry about being alone back there in case you get injured or anything. Since they will be limiting atv access in this area to the hunting season, I'm sure there will be a huge influx of "new hunters" to help you out.

I'm just feeling stoked right now. I'll be exploiting the ever loving crap out of this opportunity. I'll be sure to spread the word as well. I'd bet the quad squad along with a few other atv groups would jump at this. You might want to give the regional fire arms safety instructor a heads up that there could be a renewed interest in hunting this coming fall. Maybe pick up a bunch of old crap rifles that could net you a tidy profit should your wishes come to fruition.

I can hardly wait. I sure hope you do get your way on restricting access. Now be sure to let us know where you're set up. We will drop by on our way to wink, wink, nudge, nudge moving in our camp to thank you for your effort.

Now get busy on pushing your agenda because you will have the whole quadding community behind you!