Notley in Pincher 11:00 AM tomorrow for Castle announcement??

[Joe Black]

You got it. Me first, best way to have it. More power to you.

Way better when you can have that AND take something away from someone else at the same time. Sweet.

[artie]

Well lets go all the way. Take out all the fancy houses around the ski hill. The government would not let them build houses around Fortress Ski Hill hence its downfall and maybe Mike Judd should not be able to operate his guiding business out of the park

[Huevos]

quads are used by a huge portion of hunters, hikers, recreation user, biologists, law enforcement, all for access more than a half mile off the main roads. Or do hikers walk 30 kms back into go south castle to do a day hike? Every time someone wants to go to Gargantua, they will need to pack in at least overnight to use the caves for recreation. Seems like only people able to commit to multiple day excursions will be able to enjoy the park. Just seems like Albertan's won't be able to use it to its full potential.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by silver lab

Please fill it out. Use the comments box to vent.
Not that it really make a diff now anyway. To many tree huggin city people have too much say.

X2

[Joe Black]

That is what gets me. With this are focusing on eliminating one user group only, and they assume quad users are the only problems there. What about the riparian damage caused by cattle/grazing? Not even on the radar. Such a blatant attack against a certain group of Albertans.

Why not have designated trails along with foot only areas? has worked elsewhere and allows for all users to enjoy the reasource.

ANd you can kiss all quad dealers south of red deer goodbye in the next few years.

Huge fail Rachel.

[rugatika]

Hope nobody is surprised when hunting gets banned next.

[LJalberta]

I also was thoroughly disappointed, but not surprised by not only the wording in the public consultation, but also the wording surrounding the use of hunting as a conservation tool only. Yes it's a tool for conservation, but it's also incredibly important as part of many Albertan's lives. I would hope hunting would never be cut-out as a large and integral part of these two new parks, but they've opened the door to it now. Truly disappointed in the designation of these parks thus far, but again, not surprised. And, as others have mentioned, without increased trails, and even more importantly, increased enforcement of OHV use, they're only pushing the problem elsewhere.

[Phshrmn]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

That is what gets me. With this are focusing on eliminating one user group only, and they assume quad users are the only problems there. What about the riparian damage caused by cattle/grazing? Not even on the radar. Such a blatant attack against a certain group of Albertans.

Why not have designated trails along with foot only areas? has worked elsewhere and allows for all users to enjoy the reasource.

ANd you can kiss all quad dealers south of red deer goodbye in the next few years.

Huge fail Rachel.

FYI if you read the draft plan you will find this to be untrue. Grazing is on the radar for a number of reasons and riparian damage is high on the list.

OHV use is a problem. This is a fact. There are numerous trails in the Castle that ought not to be used yet are traveled heavily. Riders wash quads in the creeks and rivers. Bikers ride on very delicate terrain where they shouldn't ride.

Enforcement has been almost absent, except when I stopped my truck and trailer on the Castle Falls road to wait for others (told me to move). And I have been asked for my fishing license, which is always good. But I never saw enforcement out on the trails when riding.

I'm not sure they ever investigated other means of enforcement, as in training volunteers and giving them authority to record violations and write official warnings.

But the area needs protection.

Hunting is unlikely to be banned or otherwise limited. But if OHV use is eliminated, there will be huge areas for the elk to hide where I'll be unwilling to hike because it's too hard to haul out.

The sky is not falling. Random camping is going to be severely curtailed or eliminated. I'll miss it. OHV access is certainly ending. Shannon has huge influence and is known to want OHVs gone.

North of the Pass will be so crowded, something will be done there eventually.

I sold my bike when they were elected. This is a government of zealots and none of this is surprising.

Make a donation to the right leaning party of your preference so they can prepare for the next election. This is not the government we are going to influence.

Sent from my STH100-1 using Tapatalk

[Joe Black]

its good to see others can see where this may go.(loss of hunting). My guess is draw system with more allocations to guides, if not shut down completely.

But as long as anti quad users in our circles get what they want right now, they are happy.

Don't look for sympathy from your fellow outdoors enthusiasts when(if) you feel the pain in the future.

The plan may have comments re cattle damage, I did not read all 165 pages yet. One thing I do know is I did not see any comments like "immediate removal of any cattle with the remainder of cattle removed in three to five years" or type action like the Decision made with OHV's. Seems to me OHV removal was the sole purpose of this new plan.

[gbart]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

That is what gets me. With this are focusing on eliminating one user group only, and they assume quad users are the only problems there. What about the riparian damage caused by cattle/grazing? Not even on the radar. Such a blatant attack against a certain group of Albertans.

Why not have designated trails along with foot only areas? has worked elsewhere and allows for all users to enjoy the reasource.

ANd you can kiss all quad dealers south of red deer goodbye in the next few years.

Huge fail Rachel.

This is just a beginning. Simple research will show the extent of the hardcore radical environmentalist control of this government.

The government needs to be changed and the applicable departments fully and completely purged. Any sensible protection or balanced approach to users is long gone.

Don't worry...the anti quad guys on here love this now. They will soon be coming for the cattlemen, other industry, anglers, hunters, hikers, horses....etc...etc. And coming to a part of your Alberta real soon

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by gbart

This is just a beginning. Simple research will show the extent of the hardcore radical environmentalist control of this government.

The government needs to be changed and the applicable departments fully and completely purged. Any sensible protection or balanced approach to users is long gone.

Don't worry...the anti quad guys on here love this now. They will soon be coming for the cattlemen, other industry, anglers, hunters, hikers, horses....etc...etc. And coming to a part of your Alberta real soon

X2 just wait and see what the wildlife act revisions have in store. The writing is on the wall.

[Joe Black]

How hard is it to immigrate to the states? They seem to be going in the right direction now.

[JustBen]

I really don't know what they were thinking

North of highway 3 will turn into a war zone.

The root of the problem was a lack of enforcement. Now a few bad apples have ruined it for the rest of us.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by JimPS

Various conservation groups and "outdoorsman" groups have lobbied government(s) to to protect the Castle and create a "wilderness area" since 1965. Think Ghost, Siffluer, White Goat Wilderness Areas.

Now, because of the cumulative impact of decades of petroleum development, logging, indiscriminate off-road vehicle use, commercial development and government mismanagement, the Castle region can no longer even be considered to be a wilderness area anymore.

The primary goal now for the management of the Castle area will be restoration rather than the protection of the original pristine wilderness it once was. There's been plenty of time and opportunity for stakeholders to get involved with the long on-going "management" planning and discussion processes.

Difficult decisions no doubt have already been made and I applaud a government for finally having the guts and determination to manage and protect whats left, and to do what the majority of Albertans want done in the region.

Trying to disrupt or upstage an announcement event, even if there is one, will just be perceived by the media and the general public as another group of special interest whiners.

If you're perceived as not part of the solution - you're now part of the problem.

They have right government in place to make all these changes. Little miss Phillips is a green peacer and would like to close down all hunting and fishing in this province, and with no opposition she will likely get her way. And it will be hard to restore the wilderness with what the fire of 2003 did.

[GET"R"DUN]

Below is a link to contact information to some of the folks engaged in managing these places in addition to Premier Notley and Minister Phillips.

https://www.alberta.ca/albertaFiles/...varExpandID=-0

I think they deserve a more personal message from residents of Alberta and how we feel about these processes and decisions. Send some emails and make some calls folks.

Has anyone seen any statements or media interviews from any of the ATV/snowmobile associations and clubs (Alberta Off Highway Vehicle Association) or any of the other hunting, fishing, trapping groups, clubs, organizations (Wild Sheep, Trout Unlimited, Alberta Fish and Game, Rocky Mountain Elk, Wild Turkey, Ducks Unlimited, Alberta Bow Hunters, APOS, etc.).
We need to keep a media presence on this topic and keep the heat on them to be accountable to all residents of Alberta.

The media is where the power is...

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Phshrmn

FYI if you read the draft plan you will find this to be untrue. Grazing is on the radar for a number of reasons and riparian damage is high on the list.

OHV use is a problem. This is a fact. There are numerous trails in the Castle that ought not to be used yet are traveled heavily. Riders wash quads in the creeks and rivers. Bikers ride on very delicate terrain where they shouldn't ride.

Enforcement has been almost absent, except when I stopped my truck and trailer on the Castle Falls road to wait for others (told me to move). And I have been asked for my fishing license, which is always good. But I never saw enforcement out on the trails when riding.

I'm not sure they ever investigated other means of enforcement, as in training volunteers and giving them authority to record violations and write official warnings.

But the area needs protection.

Hunting is unlikely to be banned or otherwise limited. But if OHV use is eliminated, there will be huge areas for the elk to hide where I'll be unwilling to hike because it's too hard to haul out.

The sky is not falling. Random camping is going to be severely curtailed or eliminated. I'll miss it. OHV access is certainly ending. Shannon has huge influence and is known to want OHVs gone.

North of the Pass will be so crowded, something will be done there eventually.

I sold my bike when they were elected. This is a government of zealots and none of this is surprising.

Make a donation to the right leaning party of your preference so they can prepare for the next election. This is not the government we are going to influence.

Sent from my STH100-1 using Tapatalk

So in other words "ya'll got what you had coming for ya"?

It's too bad you are willing to give up other people's rights.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

How hard is it to immigrate to the states? They seem to be going in the right direction now.

Depends on your ethnicity

[lead chucker]

Thankyou dumb !@# shannon Philips for referring to pincher creek as treaty#7 lands....last I thought pincher and the castle wasn't a reserve!!!!.

[GET"R"DUN]

Sorry, it was noted I should have named a few more so folks would maybe push their organizations to get in the media and drum up some conversation on the topic. This is not just about ATV access this is about our whole province and how our public land is managed for the people. So a few more that could assist us all might be:

Safari club International
Boone & Crocket
Pope And young

And some of our own homegrown:

Alberta Conservation Association
Alberta Hunter Education Instructors Association
Alberta Outdoorsmen

I see it did not take long for Y2Y to post a statement on the topic...
https://y2y.net/news/media-releases/...tion-milestone

[New Hunter Okotoks]

Just the tip...

[Phshrmn]

Originally Posted by Newview01

So in other words "ya'll got what you had coming for ya"?

It's too bad you are willing to give up other people's rights.

I don't think that's a correct summary of my comments.

Here are the facts the report claims with which I agree:
1. OHV damage is severe and increasing. (All regular riders out there are aware of this.) Over the last 20 years it has worsened.
2. This damage is interfering with the delicate ecological balance there and the Castle is a special area.

Then we have the fact that this government is led by zealots and specifically Phillips. This outcome was predictable.

While we will not know for sure what would have happened with a conservative government, people like me who random camp with OHV users (and I sold mine simply because I saw this coming) and hunt and fish in the Castle, would have expected the conservative government to improve the management of the area because it is being misused and the misuse is increasing. There is a limit to what the wilderness can absorb. I think the limit was exceeded. I would have been advocating (and have been in the past) for limits on the abuses of OHVs as well as the squatters who took their RVs into the area in spring and tied up camping areas until October.

Other's "rights" are not without effect on my rights. More than once my fishing was affected by OHVs driving in the river and turning up so much sediment, I was unable to fish. Random camping spots were often filled by the same RVs for months and made it impossible for me to have rights to that spot.

I detest this government. I think the solutions they have chosen are more extreme than needed. I agree with those who say public pressure needs to be organized and coordinated to oppose some of the plans of this government.

There are real benefits to creating a provincial park and there are real costs to me and others who use the area frequently. it's irrational to have expected that environmental pressures would not have forced every government into action to protect the area. It's been progressing towards protection for decades.

But the minister is a well known zealot and her support in the public fully endorses her plans. Her government has a solid majority and the opposition is wimpy at best.

Our hope is to elect a new government. The two parties who might help us need money - lots of it. I think electing a new government ought to be our collective priority. Right now it doesn't matter which party because they both look like losers. But if one of them gets their act together, they will need our money. $25 makes a difference. donate. yearly. Donors affect the party's policies. Money talks and if the hunting community is a significant voting donor group for a party, they know it.

[GET"R"DUN]

Yup, as you said... "just the tip"

Funny how Bob Creek was only to be closed until the end of December and is now indefinitely closed. I fully expect that is also a square on the monopoly board that is planned to get linked to the rest of Livingston/Oldman in the very near future if they can swing it before they are ousted. Don't get me wrong I am all for protecting these areas but can we please take into consideration one of the largest and most intimate user groups in these areas (outdoorsmen) and also perhaps find a way to enforce some of the laws already in place as a starting point.

[Joe Black]

Yah, funny yet not funny.

Welcome to the new boss. Nowhere near like the old boss.

And I though the old boss was fornicating us badly.

[Tom Pullings]

Oh so it's not gonna sound like a motocross race in there anymore? That's a shame.

[silver lab]

Originally Posted by Tom Pullings

Oh so it's not gonna sound like a motocross race in there anymore? That's a shame.

Well since you wont be camping anywhere but the couple little camp grounds (that atvs were never a problem). Ya i guess your good.

[Newview01]

Such unity among us outdoorsmen. Everyone willing to give up someone else's rights.

If you didn't like ATVs, there are plenty of areas where ATVs are not allowed.

[BG2016]

Just Read M H News closed with in 5 Years

[rcmc]

Originally Posted by BG2016

Just Read M H News closed with in 5 Years

What's closed?

[super7mag]

The clip on TV they played mentioned Yellowstone to Yukon , this was one step in furthering that.. don't expect to be hunting the eastern slopes in the future.
We really need one of these conservative parties step up and start making a viable option for voters or Notley will have this province so far over the barrel it can never be remedied.

[urban rednek]

Just in case anyone is unclear about their short term goals, this is taken directly from the Jan. 20 Y2Y press release:
“Alberta has committed to achieving the international milestone of protecting 17 per cent of its landscapes by 2020,” says Morrison.

“There’s still important work to be done. We hope to work with Albertans and the government to achieve this important goal for protecting nature.”
“Albertans support the creation of new parks to protect our headwaters and to create jobs and stimulate new business opportunities,” says Legault.

“We’re glad that Premier Notley is showing real leadership and that her government takes the protection of nature seriously.”

I don't feel like doing the geographical math, but I would guess that 17% of Alberta's landmass will equal a lot more territory than is currently designated as "Protected".
It won't be long before the only people using the Eastern Slopes backcountry will be on foot or horseback.