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Old 07-15-2018, 11:08 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Default Factory Load Velocities

I have found that factory loads have improved over the years, to the point where most are reasonably consistent velocity wise. Yet on another thread, a poster is reporting over 500fps velocity variation with one load, and over 400fps velocity variation with a different load. To those people that have chronographed factory loads, what are your findings with factory loads?
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Old 07-15-2018, 05:16 PM
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i have a few boxes of factory ammo leftover from before i started handloading.

ill shoot them over a chrono and report back my findings.
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Old 07-15-2018, 05:20 PM
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There are literally hundreds of different kinds of factory ammunition. How can we possibly lump them together?
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Old 07-15-2018, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
I have found that factory loads have improved over the years, to the point where most are reasonably consistent velocity wise. Yet on another thread, a poster is reporting over 500fps velocity variation with one load, and over 400fps velocity variation with a different load. To those people that have chronographed factory loads, what are your findings with factory loads?
People that use factory ammo usually don't bother with chronograph ,for the simple reason that they don't have/need one..
S12
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Old 07-15-2018, 05:59 PM
Smokinyotes Smokinyotes is offline
 
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I have chronoed factory ammo that is almost 300 FPS slower than what is written on the box. All of it was Nosler trophy grade. Velocity was confirmed with both my shooting chrony and magnetospeed
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Old 07-15-2018, 06:14 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
There are literally hundreds of different kinds of factory ammunition. How can we possibly lump them together?
Yes there are hundreds of loads, but what have you noticed from your testing? Have any of those loads varied by 500fps from one round to another from the same box? How about 300fps?

Quote:
I have chronoed factory ammo that is almost 300 FPS slower than what is written on the box. All of it was Nosler trophy grade. Velocity was confirmed with both my shooting chrony and magnetospee
I am more concerned with consistency from shot to shot, than with the actual velocity. I have seen loads produce more than 200fps less than listed on the box, but the velocity varied no more than 70fps or so, from shot to shot.
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Old 07-15-2018, 06:17 PM
Bushleague Bushleague is offline
 
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I don't have a chronograph, but for what its worth I have on several occasions had my POI change by a couple inches at 100 yards when switching between boxes of identical Remington ammunition. To me that indicates a fairly noticeable velocity change, though I don't have the means of verifying this. This variation was from box to box, not round to round.

I have never witnessed the same thing with Federal or Winchester brand ammunition. For what its worth.
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Old 07-15-2018, 06:31 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushleague View Post
I don't have a chronograph, but for what its worth I have on several occasions had my POI change by a couple inches at 100 yards when switching between boxes of identical Remington ammunition. To me that indicates a fairly noticeable velocity change, though I don't have the means of verifying this. This variation was from box to box, not round to round.

I have never witnessed the same thing with Federal or Winchester brand ammunition. For what its worth.
Box to box is not the same as round to round. Different boxes, may be from different lot numbers, the lot number is usually stamped somewhere on the box. All ammunition in the same box, should be from the same lot number. The variation from lot to lot usually isn't great, but I have seen significant differences in some cases, which is why I would purchase several boxes from the same lot number, if I was to use factory ammunition.
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Old 07-15-2018, 06:49 PM
Nyksta Nyksta is online now
 
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30 to 40 fps spread with Rem corelokt 180 gr psp 308 win. 2590 fps average in multiple 22 inch barrels

Is a bit slow for the potential, but always right around that speed.

Last edited by Nyksta; 07-15-2018 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 07-15-2018, 06:49 PM
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what Is the concern here?
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Old 07-15-2018, 06:59 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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what Is the concern here?
Just trying to see if anyone else is seeing 400fps to 500fps variations from shot to shot within the same box of factory loads. From what I have seen, factory loads have been a great deal more consistent than that, and even 100fps is not common.
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Old 07-15-2018, 07:40 PM
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Father in Law dropped off his SL8 and a few varieties of factory match ammo. Didn't test them all but here's what we found on the 4 we did.

PMC X-TAC 77 grain Sierra Open Tip Match.

Advertised at 2790 fps
Max 2424
Min 2390
Avg 2404
ES 34
STD 12.4
5 shot group sub (barely) moa at 200yds


Nosler 62 grain FB Hollow point (Varmageddon)

Advertised 2744 fps
Max 2744
Min 2573
Avg 2657.6
ES 171
STD 62.1
5 shot group 1.28 moa at 200 yds


Hornady Superformance 75 grain BTHP match

Advertised 2920 fps
Max 2812
Min 2737
Avg 2770
ES 75
STD 26.7
5 shot group 1.5 moa at 200 yards


Remington 77 grain Match King

Max 2534
Min 2430
Avg 2506
ES 104
STD 43.7
5 shot group 1.8 moa at 200 yds

So 171 fps was the worst we ran into. Surprised how high the SD numbers were considering the cost. He doesn't reload but this may convince him.
400 to 500 fps variation I would suspect somethings wrong with the guys chrono.
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Old 07-15-2018, 08:12 PM
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Do we know what his factory ammunition was?
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Do we know what his factory ammunition was?
First line of each group names the ammunition brand and bullet weight/type.
Am I missing something ?
Want the SKU numbers ?

I think I've made the mistake your question was aimed at me not the original ammunition in question with the large variance.

Last edited by flange; 07-15-2018 at 09:07 PM. Reason: Sometimes I'm dense.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flange View Post
First line of each group names the ammunition brand and bullet weight/type.
Am I missing something ?
Want the SKU numbers ?

I think I've made the mistake your question was aimed at me not the original ammunition in question with the large variance.
Not you. Sorry. I was referring to the said ammo in the OP.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:29 PM
LongBomber LongBomber is offline
 
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I ran some nosler trophy match 6.5CM past the labradar, 6 shots varied from 2631 to 2704. Thats a decent swing, although 100 yard groups still hovered around .6" decent but significantly worse than what the rifle can do with handloads.
I think thats likely in line with what some guys get with handloads. I know several guys that do very basic reloading, the accuracy meets their needs and its mostly about cheap ammo. I would bet they have swings at least that big.
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:34 PM
GrandSlam GrandSlam is offline
 
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Default Factory Load Velocities

I used to own a 444XLR (24Ē barrel) and ran the following factory loads over the chrono. Matched published speeds pretty closely.

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Old 07-16-2018, 07:17 AM
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have chronied a lot of factory ammo, most spread up to 70 fps i'd approximate

usually compared federal, winchester, rem, hornady

overall they land where generally a little under expected velocity expected for barrel length etc. usually not more than about 20-40 fps
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Old 07-16-2018, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Just trying to see if anyone else is seeing 400fps to 500fps variations from shot to shot within the same box of factory loads. From what I have seen, factory loads have been a great deal more consistent than that, and even 100fps is not common.
After our back and forth yesterday it got me thinking about the 500 fps wing I saw. While the ammo was stored correctly, shells from that box had seen significant bush time and given this guys hunting habits most certainly saw significant rain or moisture contact. Ammo from that box had seen a few seasons. Makes me wonder if those shells sucked in some moisture. They were factory Nosler partition tipped ammo.

The second instance was factory 58gn Vmax loaded shells. I bought a pile for my brother at a store closing at $8 a box. I canít buy brass that cheap. The box and a half put by the Labradar was the limit off that testing that day so it is conceivable that they were two different lots. I think he has seven boxes of this stuff left so we will give it another try if he hasnít got rid of them already. Even if it is lot to lot, that swing is pretty stinky.

Since owning the Labradar it gets set up every time. Due to its novelty, it seen probably close to a thousand factory rounds. Everybody wants to try it out and coupled with a pile of that factory ammo we picked up dirt cheap we have seen lots run by this unit. Handloads itís seen far more. Before that I owned three other shooting chronies that saw a lot less use.

Lots of swings around 200fps with factory stuff. I had 280 rounds of factory 17 hornet which held interesting swings as well. It is a small capacity case where a little powder change makes big differences.

We just donít typically see the same swings with handloads. I think you would see much less swings with match grade factory ammo but Iím not buying any just to test.

The other thing we noticed was some interesting variations between sabot slug ammo. Sabot slugs are a real PIA to get to read on the Labradar but it can be done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LongBomber View Post
I ran some nosler trophy match 6.5CM past the labradar, 6 shots varied from 2631 to 2704. Thats a decent swing, although 100 yard groups still hovered around .6" decent but significantly worse than what the rifle can do with handloads.
I think thats likely in line with what some guys get with handloads. I know several guys that do very basic reloading, the accuracy meets their needs and its mostly about cheap ammo. I would bet they have swings at least that big.
That is a fair statement. It reminds me of this one time at the range. It was busy as hell and there were two of us that had two of the three 300 yard benches tied up. The third was tied up by another fellow so basically it was plugged.

I was catching the guy beside me when he was shooting his ammo out of a trg42.

He had almost 400fps swings in his handloads and was pretty upset by his 300 yard results. I let him run a few right by the unit and it showed him what was going on.
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Old 07-16-2018, 07:55 AM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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We found that a few factors seem to play into the ammo mix.

Factory processing, year the ammo was made, the condition of powder, primers,,, and so on. The handling to storage of components along with over all quality / control. Then the dreaded shipping,,, some times this ammo could be frozen and cooked in some refer-van in transport. At the factory end that is.

Many of us would think that in the perfect world that all factory ammo is well looked after in the shipping department,,, but this might not be the case.

The ever changing heat cycles "could" cause moisture build up in the cartrages,,, "could" that is. All metal products are prone to sweating a little bit. One would think it dosen't take much to affect the powder charge.

Then the age of the factory ammo and the handling of it in the owners hands on top of that.

How many cold to heat cycles has each cartrage been threw till it actually makes its way to the firearm before being shot.

So under lying factors "might" play into the puzzle of extrem spread, max to min velocities.

Purhaps this might be why most factory ammo shooters buy their ammo from big bulk sporting goods stores.
It never hurts to look at the date the ammo was made on the box before buying.

We see this in the 22 rim fire ammo.

Most of the competition ammo with high scores is "normally" new with in a year and a bit.

This is not saying that some ammo that has sat idle for 5 to 7 years +++ dosen't perform to its standard.

I have some left over 22 ammo that is kinda crappy since it wasn't taken care of. Some of them barely make it out of the barrel. Ha. Pretty much ready to throw it away.

Just a thought on factors that could play into the mix.

Probably wrong thinking as normal

Don
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:04 AM
Bushleague Bushleague is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Box to box is not the same as round to round. Different boxes, may be from different lot numbers, the lot number is usually stamped somewhere on the box. All ammunition in the same box, should be from the same lot number. The variation from lot to lot usually isn't great, but I have seen significant differences in some cases, which is why I would purchase several boxes from the same lot number, if I was to use factory ammunition.
All very true but in the event that rounds of different lot numbers got combined, one way or another (I once bought a box of Hornady amo that had 5 rounds of PMC in it, mix ups happen), its possible that one could see bigger velocity variations.
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Old 07-20-2018, 03:51 PM
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We choreographed Weatherby factory Ammo versus hand loads punching paper with 2 of our 257WBY's and the factory loads seemed to be all +/- 40-50 fps or so. Hand loads were not much different actually - slightly better of course, but not that much if memory serves me correctly.

The velocity was, however, lower than what was listed, by 80-90 fps (for factory ammo).

I'm no expert - and don't know if that's typical or not for "premium" ammo but both rifles shot moa and the hand loads*** seemed a little better - but again, marginally.

***This was also a load he had developed over a few sessions that was on the top end of towards the high pressure maxes.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:07 PM
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I had a 270 Win. Browning BAR that had a generous chamber(stretched the brass)I was scared to shoot reloads in it because the web would split sometimes after 2 firings.I bought 2 boxes of Winchester Power Max 130 PHP for it.
I used my shooting crony to see how close my rifle would shoot to what the box said being a semi-auto.The box said 3060 fps and I got 2960,2952,2965 fps with a 22" barrel.I thought I would try them in my vanguard and see what they did in it and 3 shots were 3010,3002,3022 fps with a 24" barrel.I think the BAR lost the speed because of the 2" less barrel and being a semi-auto.Both rifles really liked that batch of bullets. I bought the 2 more boxes of power maxs again for it(different batch).My rifle sure didn't like the second batch.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM View Post
We choreographed Weatherby factory Ammo versus hand loads punching paper with 2 of our 257WBY's and the factory loads seemed to be all +/- 40-50 fps or so. Hand loads were not much different actually - slightly better of course, but not that much if memory serves me correctly.

The velocity was, however, lower than what was listed, by 80-90 fps (for factory ammo).

I'm no expert - and don't know if that's typical or not for "premium" ammo but both rifles shot moa and the hand loads*** seemed a little better - but again, marginally.

***This was also a load he had developed over a few sessions that was on the top end of towards the high pressure maxes.
Read the small print!
Weatherbyís are quoted as from a 26Ē barrel, with copious free bore included.

And chronographís have at least 1.0% to 2% instrumental error from one to another. Letís see, 3300fps x 0.02= 66 FPS

Itís a number, plain and simple, how one number compares to the next, or even the next 20 is whatís gonna matter.

You can therorize, pontificate, and beat your finger tips raw calculating all the numbers out there. At the end of it all under field conditions, with adrenaline coursing through your veins, is it gonna matter that much?

The OP was about a very extreme situation, which I think was driven by some serious mis quoting of misunderstood results, and is far from typical.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:44 PM
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I had the Hornady 20 gr rounds chronoed. in a 5 shot string, they varied about around 150 fps...
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick284 View Post

The OP was about a very extreme situation, which I think was driven by some serious mis quoting of misunderstood results, and is far from typical.
The OP was referring to the back and forth between him and I.

The numbers were not misquoted and the Labradar does not lie.

Donít need to throw shade
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpcw View Post
The OP was referring to the back and forth between him and I.

The numbers were not misquoted and the Labradar does not lie.

Donít need to throw shade
How do you know it doesnít lie?
Have you set up 2 of them on the same range?
Have you used a magneto and a Labradar, side by side?
Maybe an old F1 chrony and your Labradar?

How do you claim such things?

Enquiring minds wish to know.

The suns shining on you.
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:59 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick284 View Post
How do you know it doesnít lie?
Have you set up 2 of them on the same range?
Have you used a magneto and a Labradar, side by side?
Maybe an old F1 chrony and your Labradar?

How do you claim such things?

Enquiringly kinda wish to know.

The suns shining on you.
Seeing variances in velocity of 400-500fps from shot to shot with factory ammunition makes me wonder about the set up, more than about the unit itself.
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Seeing variances in velocity of 400-500fps from shot to shot with factory ammunition makes me wonder about the set up, more than about the unit itself.
This member is long on claims, and short on specifics.

Heís worried about answering questions, for some reason.

The jist of the matter is, if ya wanna put mind blowing information on the inter web, you better be able to back up said information. So far Iím not seeing any thing but un supported rhetoric.
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick284 View Post
How do you know it doesnít lie?
Have you set up 2 of them on the same range?
Have you used a magneto and a Labradar, side by side?
Maybe an old F1 chrony and your Labradar?

How do you claim such things?

Enquiring minds wish to know.

The suns shining on you.
Yes far apart on the same range with two labradars.

Itís been tested against F1 Alpha and Beta and against two Magnetospeeds.

Slight variance but stable variance between units. As expected.

Whatís your point?

I donít care if you believe or not. As I pointed out to elk hunter those shells could very well have sucked in moisture.

That would certainly account for the vast differences in velocity.

You donít need to be a dick, Dick.
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