Calling the experts, please comment on my shooting, pics.

Stinky Coyote · #1 10-12-2008, 12:34 PM

Okay, short story, i took my laminate stainless tikka .270 and put it on a diet. Went to synthetic stock, talley rings and leupy ultralight 3-9x33 with target knob installed (gun is now right at or a hair under 7 lbs all in). Cleaned it, zeroed it at 220 yrds, and then reset the target knob to zero for that yardage. Then i went out and shot at 360 yrds and 498 yrds to determine the come ups on the target knob and that is what your going to see below.

I typed a bunch of data on a word document from my scribbles in the field so bear with me, i wanted to collect as much as possible as i have questions and would like comments/review etc. So here is my notes: (sorry i'm long winded)

Note: All shooting done laying prone in a big field over a caldwell tackdriver sideways for extra height. (trying to simulate shooting over a backpack for sheep hunting etc.)

"Tikka .270 Oct 11, 2008 shoot to 498 Yrds Data:
1st session to zero at 220 yrds with new leupy scope with target knob done a couple weeks previous on a clean bore, 16 shots fired for that session, and target knob reset to have zero for this distance.
This session ran 29 shots, the last 6 were just for chronographing, so 23 used to find come ups for 360 yrds and 498 yrds and confirm them.
Conditions for this session from Kestrel 2500 meter:
Temp: minus 6 degrees
Barometer: 26.07 inhg
Altitude: 3750’ feet
Wind Direction: Crosswind coming from behind at 45 degree angle going from right to left.

360 Yrd shooting:
Wind speed between 1 and 2 mph.
1st shot took 1.75 moa to get on the steel and it was low.
2nd shot at 2.25 moa and almost on the bull, a bit low left.
3rd shot at 2.5 moa basically same poi as previous shot.
4th shot at 2.75 moa basically same poi as previous shot
All 4 shots low of bull 3 of them within 2” or less, warm barrel now, 6 shots, for a final of 2.75 moa as the come up needed for 360 yrds.

Cooled barrel.

Repainted gong leaving one bullet hole unpainted as the aimpoint for next shots as that bullet hole was almost exactly center of the gong.

At 2.75 moa took two shots from 360 yrds on cool barrel to confirm, impacts both high, 1st shot less than 2” high and a bit right of the bull, second shot felt better and it was approx. 1.25” high and basically centered right above the aimpoint.

498 yrd shooting:

Wind speed around 2 mph.
1st shot 6.25 moa low left on the steel
2nd shot at 6.5 moa was 2” higher
3rd shot at 6.75 moa was 2” right of 1st shot but i had changed shooting postion from the 1st two shots?
This group was 2 .75” ctc, and the center of this group was 3.5” left of the center of the bullseye.

Group number two, cooled barrel.

Wind now gusting to 5 mph mostly.
1st shot at 6.75 moa, high left.
2nd shot at 6.5 moa, about 2” below 1st shot. (and just high of aimpoint height)
3rd shot at 6.5 moa i pulled low on the shot and called it, it was about 3” below the 2nd shot.
This group was 5 1/8” ctc with a pulled shot and the center of this group was 7” left of the center of the bullseye. So i’ve settled on 6.5 moa for 500 yrds.

Confirmed 220 yrd zero.

Chronograph numbers.

Ammo is factory federal fusion 130 grain for a standard .270 and a bone stock Tikka with 22” barrel. Rated velocity on the box is 3050 fps (but probably for a 24” barrel?)

6 shots.

1. 3012 fps
2. 3007 fps
3. 3004 fps (low)
4. 3015 fps
5. 3053 fps (high)
6. 3013 fps.
Average velocity of 6 shots is 3017 fps.

Take out the high shot number 5 and the average of the remaining 5 is 3010 fps."

Here come the pics. Remember, the exact data for each of the pics is detailed above.

This is first set of shots at 360 yrds, comments above.

This is second set of shots at 360 yrds, remember the center most bullet on the gong was left behind as the aimpoint, only the two upper shots were shot to confirm come up.

This is 1st set of shots at 498 yrds.

This is second set of shots at 498 yrds, wind up to 5 mph by this point and the low shot i pulled and called it before i looked in the scope to see it.

Okay, so the goal is to get a kenton ind. speed turret made up to match my set up. Do i have enough data to make that happen? Does anyone have the ability to use ballistic software to find out what the bc of my bullets are and use my data to find out what the rest of my come ups are for a bunch of other ranges? And does the drift to the left correspond correctly to the wind data i gave for that set up? (quietly wondering if i need to adjust my windage at all?)

Can someone give me some wind drift data also so i can attach something to my stock for that?

Next i'd like to hear any comments about my shooting. If you think my windage needs adjusting? Etc. etc. Lets talk.

So far i'm impressed what a bone stock tikka .270 and cheap fusion ammo can do in field conditions and a 7 lb all in package. I can't wait to get into reloading and try some 140 gr bergers and do it all over again but for now the factory stuff has to do the trick.

shekaree · #2 10-12-2008, 02:27 PM

That great shooting, I wish I could shoot that good at 500 yards.

Solothurn · #3 10-12-2008, 03:12 PM

The "prefab elevation knobs" like Kenton and the others still are only rough reference. Every day the temperature, humidity and depending on where you are shooting, elevation will change, which also changes your trajectory.
Should you change your load this will render the knobs useless.

Bullet manufacturers post the BC that "they" have attained from their test barrels. To get a true BC for a certain bullet shot out of your gun requires the use of 2 chronographs spaced a given distance apart, then you shoot through them , take the data and use a math formula to get "your " true BC.

Windage is subjective as all programs can not take wind variation into account.
You may on a 500 yard shot have no wind from where you are shooting from, at 250 yards there could be a full value 10 mph wind to the right and at 500 yards a full value 5 mph wind to the left, the computer programs can not deal with this, they only work on a consistent X wind speed over the entire shot distance.
Generic programs like Exbal, which is what I use, are great to help get a feel for what is required for adjustment, but can not be trusted for field applications totally.

To have several drop charts available with you has advantages. I used to run a chart that I created from known numbers of exact velocity at each 5 degree temperature increase for my rifles, that way I have a better idea of what the trajectory really is given the temperature I am shooting at , at that time. Now I use the exbal program in my cell phone. I still have the velocities at various temperatures stored in its memory, but can calculate in seconds the differences in humidity and elevation.
Personally rather than generic knobs, I would invest in an Exbal program and a Palm pilot.

Stinky Coyote · #4 10-12-2008, 04:59 PM

not shooting for a thousand yrds here...would like to know to about 600, after that i doubt my rig has enough pop for much more than coyotes the way it is....when i start reloading .5 and higher bc stuff then 7-800 might be more doable but can anyone plug in the data i have and give me some more yardage come up numbers all the way out to 600?

can anyone deduce my current bc? i'm guessing high .3's or low .4's?

wind drift rule of thumbs for that set up? ie: 2 moa for 10 mph crosswind etc.?

Rick, can you plug some of my data in and answer any of my questions or not?

Stinky Coyote · #5 10-12-2008, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shekaree

That great shooting, I wish I could shoot that good at 500 yards.

you can too, have a gong built and get your rangefinder out....its surprisingly easy, thats all factory gear and factory ammo

Salvelinus · #6 10-12-2008, 11:04 PM

I have a t3 hunter (walnut stock) .270 sighted in at EXACTLY the same point (220 yds). Our local range goes out to 400 yds and I have pretty much identical accuracy to your 360 yd targets there (I'm also using 130 gr fusions).

I find even with my Bushnell elite, one click can throw things out pretty good at 500+ yrds. You look pretty good there.

Solothurn · #7 10-12-2008, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

not shooting for a thousand yrds here...would like to know to about 600, after that i doubt my rig has enough pop for much more than coyotes the way it is....when i start reloading .5 and higher bc stuff then 7-800 might be more doable but can anyone plug in the data i have and give me some more yardage come up numbers all the way out to 600?

can anyone deduce my current bc? i'm guessing high .3's or low .4's?

wind drift rule of thumbs for that set up? ie: 2 moa for 10 mph crosswind etc.?

Rick, can you plug some of my data in and answer any of my questions or not?

Be happy to run the program for you.
I need the exact bullet you are using, measurement from center of bore to center of objective lens, the rest of the info you have already supplied.
Give me the rest and I will run the Exbal for you, be happy to fax you the results. PM me a fax #, reason being I can not scan and email it.

Stinky Coyote · #8 10-13-2008, 05:51 AM

bullet is 130 gr fusion,

i thought they might release just the bullets for reloaders but don't see they have? (were rumors at one point) and i can't find anything via google that will give me the bc of it, but its a skivved tip with boattail and i understand they are supposed to have bc's close to 'premium nosler bullets'? (something i read), i believe the partition in 130 gr is low .4's and this has got to be a little more slippery with the boatail maybe?

www.fusionammo.com is the website i believe...

just holding a tape sideways on the gun barrel and scope it looks to be 1.5" from center of bore to center of scope

fax number is 403-244-7841

thanks

LongDraw · #9 10-13-2008, 08:46 AM

I use this program- it is great and the price is right!

http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/calculati...traj_card.html

Stinky Coyote · #10 10-14-2008, 10:48 AM

Thanks, i'll play with it as soon as i get a chance....can't wait!

Stinky Coyote · #11 10-14-2008, 12:30 PM

oky doky, by playing with that site for a bit i think the bc of my 130 gr fusion is .465, it gives me the closest numbers to my 220 yrd zero, 360 yrd impact and 500 yrd impacts including my wind drift at 5 mph....

My numbers

2.75 moa for 360 yrds (website 2.7 moa for 350)
6.5 moa for 498 yrds (website 6.5 moa for 500)
7" wind 5mph 498 yrds (website 7.2" wind 5mph 500)

only difference i can tell is my wind was quartering towards the target about 45 degree angle

so i think i got the hang of that sight so far and could print that range card to get the exacts for the 300/350/400/450/500/550/600 yrds etc. and that was exactly what i was looking for so THANKS!, will save me a day or two of range time

i really only want to get to 600 with it as i'm pretty sure its runnin out of any useable steam by then with this ammo....so knowing the 500 forsure it will be close enough on the 600 to probably hit a coyote....good nuff for this rig

Stinky Coyote · #12 10-16-2008, 08:00 AM

Rick, don't worry about inputting the stuff for me. The online resources did great job. I have skipped the idea of the kenton speed dial knob in favor of two range cards. One taped to either side of the stock. Inside of stock gets the 4500' elevation 0 degree temperature range card and the other side gets a 7000' elevation 0 degree temp range card for if up the mountains after sheep.

I have 3 columns to view. 1st column is range, second is Moa come ups for that range and 3rd is 10mph crosswind in inches for that range. Figuring it would be easiest to use the animal's size as reference to best determine the inches for windage holds.

And at the very bottom in small print i put reminder that at -20 degrees to add .3 moa at 600 yrds (was same for both elevations) and that at +20 degrees it stayed the same. So i can do some mental calculations on shots past 500 yrds to match the weather conditions a little better. Think i got 99% of situations i could run into covered for this factory rig/factory ammo and still be pretty effective to 600 yrds which is probably the max limit for deer size game as still doing just over 2000 fps at that point and still over 1000 ft/lbs energy.

Thanks for the help folks. This ballistics stuff is fun. The addiction is now in full swing...custom stuff next.

Stinky Coyote · #13 10-20-2008, 08:22 AM

Got to try a 701 yrd shot on a rock across the valley on saturday with two spotters to confirm (one on bino's the other on spotting scope). Dialed in the 12 moa my card said and there was no wind....hit it bang on. One of the coolest shooting experiences of my life so far.

To say i'm tickled with my 7 lb all in little factory rig with factory ammo would be a huge understatement!

huntinstuff · #14 10-20-2008, 01:55 PM

It is pretty obvious that you are disappointed with your rifle. No sense keeping a rifle that shoots so poorly. You deserve better. I, on the other hand, could use a real inaccurate rifle like yours. Chances are, you will probably want big bucks ($400-$425 shipped) but I could scratch and save and have the cash ready by this afternoon.........let me know

Stinky Coyote · #15 10-21-2008, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

It is pretty obvious that you are disappointed with your rifle. No sense keeping a rifle that shoots so poorly. You deserve better. I, on the other hand, could use a real inaccurate rifle like yours. Chances are, you will probably want big bucks ($400-$425 shipped) but I could scratch and save and have the cash ready by this afternoon.........let me know

no

Stinky Coyote · #16 10-21-2008, 11:07 AM

you can do it too, need some equipment first though...

i had gong made up at welding shop for about 150 tax in

kestrel 2500 meter for atmospheric conditions and wind....will use this more for actual field shots now that gun is all set up but was valuable in the set up also

the gongs nice as i could shoot to 500 and see the impact marks in scope without use of spotting scope...saves going back and forth, i'm sure will be visible much further out too

noted atmospheric conditions on day i shot, confirmed zero, did come ups for two different distances, used ballistic calculator at home to match it up, basically had to keep guessing on my bc (which wasn't known) to get the figures to match up and voila....printed some charts and then used excel to make my own chart for the stock, 2 bucks at staples for lamination....

oh, can't forget the leupold scope with and elevation target knob installed, that turret installed was 100 bucks from Korth in okotoks, you can mail it in and they'll ship back but i'm out that way enough that i just dropped it off and picked it up a day later....they are pretty quick...

find some private land to shoot on and you can get just as set up too...just plan out the gear efficiently

the ballistics websites were free, i didn't need a membership at a long distance range....so pretty doable if your up to the challenge....if you have something shooting around moa you should be able to get set up to similar ranges as me...

the guys doing custom stuff have 1/4 to 1/2 moa stuff with way higher bc bullets and can go way further than my little rig....pretty sure i've taken my factory rig as far as it can go

start plannin and collecting gear

Stinky Coyote · #17 10-21-2008, 12:13 PM

interesting stat...

that 700 yrd shot...took 12 moa come up to hit.....12 moa at that distance equals 84"....or 7' feet!...........holy crap

Drew_CarreyAB · #18 10-22-2008, 06:41 PM

Stinky, great shooting...nice pics....I had a 300WM using 190gr BTSP's doing 3100fps.....I had it verified out to 600 and charted(not confirmed) to 1000. How big is the dimensions on the plate of steel?? How thick is the gong? (IMO, the grade of the steel needs to be denser(not as big of craters)). Glad to see that you found the programs online.....I might suggest "Point Blank" as a good program, it allows you to make "cards" of the firearms and loads that you cook up....it also gives PBR and drop data too. Good shooting, keep it up.