Ford A/C repair

[kens]

2011 Escape AC needs repair.

A very competent mechanic looked at it, replaced the safety switch, read the codes etc but couldn't fix the problem.
The next step is to Ford so they can access the computer or something close to that.

My question is does it have to be Ford or can some of the AC specialty shops access the computer and do just as good a job?

[hogie]

Any shop that has access to the service manuals, SSM and TSB should be able to diag it. The system on those is still relatively simple. The only issue with them gas been a condenser leaking on some. Really haven't seen many electrical issues.

[Sooner]

Does it not blow cold? Have you had it recharged and the cold only lasts a while? Leaks are almost always the first place to look. I agree with Hogie, never heard of a computer being at fault for A/C problems.


Google some Auto A/C shops in in your area and let them have a look as their probably cheaper than a dealer. Saying that, I bet the dealer has seen the issue before and can save diagnose time. Check out some Ford forums too.

The wife has a 2010 Escape, her A/C is wonky too but I keep telling her she has a leak vs electrical but she gets it "fixed" at her friends hubby's shop, its cold on return, then not.

[Arty]

Originally Posted by kens

2011 Escape AC needs repair.

A very competent mechanic looked at it, replaced the safety switch, read the codes etc but couldn't fix the problem.
The next step is to Ford so they can access the computer or something close to that.

My question is does it have to be Ford or can some of the AC specialty shops access the computer and do just as good a job?

Having swapped out every a/c component myself on my truck this spring (except the in-dash expander) and then just getting a recharge at the stealership I've had great results since. At the 6 year mark I'd do the same with an Escape too, assuming the parts are at least as accessible on it. I assume the parts are slightly smaller and cheaper on the Escape as well, and are all available through RockAuto. Granted my a/c was getting pretty beaten up, and bled out 3 times in 3 years, but you could do diagnoses on any old system until the cows come home and still miss something that eventually causes poor operation, or a slow leak requiring an annual recharge, or the compressor to seize up.

There's a ton of stuff going on in an a/c system, and everything has to be working right for it to be useful and dependable.

Best to know that every component is working as new and has been systematically and correctly installed and set up by your own hand. Diagnosis labor, installation labor, canada-sourced oem parts markup, and frequent recharges all get crazy expensive if you're leaning on somebody else to 'fix' your a/c just enough to get it running for awhile. I'd first do basic diagnostics to get a good idea what's going on 'as found', but then cut to the chase and rebuild the circuit without wasting too much time.

At least I'd get a good manifold gauge set and a common digital voltmeter and learn exactly how an a/c system works, and then do a self-diagnosis to get some probable causes of the problem(s). And you'll be able to have an intelligent conversation with an a/c mechanic if need be. Huge amounts of info are available on YouTube, mostly by US authors because a/c is so common there. After a few evenings of 'tubing you should develop a sense of what is good info and what is bs.

Stabbing in the dark on your problem from the info provided, the 'safety switch' might be the low-pressure protection switch which needs to pass a 12v signal to the control unit (CU) to enable the a/c to work at all. It indicates there is enough refrigerant (pressure) and therefore enough PAG compressor lubricant circulating around with it so that the compressor doesn't seize up. The switch might be screwed (but probably not at 6 years old), or the wiring to the CU is frayed or ripped. Or there is really no pressure in the circuit, meaning a slow leak somewhere. Maybe in the hi or low schraeder valves, or a pinhole in the tubing or heat exchanger or accumulator, or a loose or bad fitting. Compressors naturally have a very slow leak inside across their seals too; maybe the system just needs a recharge (with sufficient PAG) for another 5 years. (What's the history of recharges so far?) Theoretically it is possible for the program in the CU to be faulty or have problems but that's pretty low on the list of probabilities. You could briefly short the switch leads to check if the compressor clutch engages, but somebody should have pressure-checked the system first to make sure there is enough r134a to start with.

Just don't recharge your system with those lame miracle-fix cans of butane called r20a, even just to see 'what will happen'. That will make a mess of the chemistry in the circuit.

[kens]

I could have done a better job of phrasing the question but not being a mechanic, you know.

If the correct load is added to the circuit, everything operates correctly so it's not a compressor nor I guess anything actually with the AC.

It's a control problem thus the suggestion that only Ford can access the right info in the computer modules.

[sako1]

Originally Posted by kens

I could have done a better job of phrasing the question but not being a mechanic, you know.

If the correct load is added to the circuit, everything operates correctly so it's not a compressor nor I guess anything actually with the AC.

It's a control problem thus the suggestion that only Ford can access the right info in the computer modules.

ANY competent shop can fix your vehicle.

[hogie]

Originally Posted by kens

I could have done a better job of phrasing the question but not being a mechanic, you know.

If the correct load is added to the circuit, everything operates correctly so it's not a compressor nor I guess anything actually with the AC.

It's a control problem thus the suggestion that only Ford can access the right info in the computer modules.

Jumping circuit is fine to check compressor op but doesn't mean it's electrical or a control module problem. You could have low charge and system will not operate.

If I was looking at this at work ( yes a nasty dealer) I would recover system to see actually how much R134a is in the system. If it's low,visual inspection, check tsb, ssm,add dye, recharge run system. Inspect for leaks. Look for leaks. Usually dye will show up. Sometimes if not right I front of me would ask customer to drive for a week then come back for another check with black light for dye. Small leaks can be a pain to find.

All this should be about 1 hour time charge plus supplies.

[.257Weatherby]

Does the compressor clutch cycle (on/off) when AC is turned on and fan is at max?
Failing that step the Switch on the low side.
Jump the pins with a paper clip and if it works then it is the switch.
Just had this done on the Chevy Blazer and it was the switch.
The shop is a general duty repair facility and they hooked it up with the machine they use in the shop.
Here is a link to watch and gain a little knowledge .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhU2KeumoVk
Rob

[kens]

No the AC clutch does not cycle.

Yes the system is charged.

All the diagnostics and symptoms said replace the switch, we did and it didn't help.

Thus my question, is the only option to go to Ford?

[sako1]

Originally Posted by kens

No the AC clutch does not cycle.

Yes the system is charged.

All the diagnostics and symptoms said replace the switch, we did and it didn't help.

Thus my question, is the only option to go to Ford?

Why on earth would you have to go to ford? I have already told you ANY competent shop can fix it.

[sako1]

Many here have had some great suggestions. I want to know how do you know the system is fully charged? Do the electric fans run all the time because the ecm thinks the car is overheating?-common problem
Are the wires good from ecm to compressor? - common problem
Is the a/c fuse good?- common problem
Low refrigerant? - common problem
The list continues. Just take it to a shop and get it fixed.

[Matt22]

You can take it to any compentent shop. Many problems it could be. However make sure you are actually saving money if you choose to take it to an independadnt. I've found Ford to be quite competitive on both parts, and labor pricing. Like it or not they have more access to info, and are better trained on fords in particular than anyone else.

[Suzukisam]

You can't say they are better trained. The guy you get could have worke at chev or Canadian tire up till the day before. And a lot of indepents could be smarter and cheaper find a good mechanic and stay with him he will save you money in the long run and you have a relation ship with him. Try that at a stealership.

[Matt22]

Originally Posted by Suzukisam

You can't say they are better trained. The guy you get could have worke at chev or Canadian tire up till the day before. And a lot of indepents could be smarter and cheaper find a good mechanic and stay with him he will save you money in the long run and you have a relation ship with him. Try that at a stealership.

While that is very true they COULD have worked at any given dealer, there is just as good of a chance they were not and typically you don't get to interview the tech before you use the place. I'm not saying the independent techs aren't smart, however they don't have the resources offered at the dealer. I'm a heavy equipment tech, and I've worked at both dealer and as an independent. I've seen it first hand. Anyway I don't want to derail the thread. I'm just saying a lot of the dealer hate on the forums is somewhat unwarranted, typically it's not much if any more money.

Edit: to further this for several years my work truck had been serviced by the same DEALER tech at a Ford dealer, and I had conversations and a relationship going with him and the service writer.

[Suzukisam]

This is a 6 yr going on 7 year old car there are no trade secrets to it all information for tab recalls and Ford manuals are available and are in 90% of the real licensed shops out there. And I can promise you ALL will be cheaper then the dealer. After all they got to pay for those nice glass buildings and heating bills.

[hogie]

Originally Posted by Suzukisam

This is a 6 yr going on 7 year old car there are no trade secrets to it all information for tab recalls and Ford manuals are available and are in 90% of the real licensed shops out there. And I can promise you ALL will be cheaper then the dealer. After all they got to pay for those nice glass buildings and heating bills.

The manufactures require the dealers to have a certain standard to keep there license. The dealers are required to have certain equipment that independents will not have. The dealers are sent the latest special tools required to fix the vehicles that they have to buy, no choice. IF THE MANUFACTURERS decide that the dealers need to have a certain image to keep there license then they have to do it.

The overhead on a dealer is huge. Would you be happy if they told you that they don't do trans repair because they don't have the tools or equipment to do it? How many independents out there tackle everything? How many independents shops have ten or more employees not including office staff?

My father was an independent shop owner, I have nothing against small shops.

This should really be a diag that should take no more than one hour to figure out. If it is electrical then it may take longer. I'm a Ford tech for 20 years , usually it's the condenser leaking on these. It could be anything on the system but this is what the problem is most of the time. You can hook up gauge and see pressure in the system but it doesn't mean that it has a correct charge. Been caught by that before. The tests in the manuals are only as good as the mechanic doing them.

[Suzukisam]

Yes I agree this should not take an hour to diagnose. A/c is one of the easiest to things to diagnose on a car. I disagree on your equipment aspect by that I will challenge your dealership on an older Ford most don't have not even kept there old scan tools for them. Which is right key so due to they have enough work keeping up with the new and not remembering the old. You've been 20 years there give your young guys a f up eec 1v and watch the poor kid pull his hair out as you laugh. No replacement for experience. I have seen a young guy change injectors, could,plugs, for a cyl 4 miss code. Did not no basics that without compression it won't work. And that was at a dealer. So there is good and bad every where just like politicians. Remember mechanics have to fix their mistakes doctors just bury them

[hogie]

Originally Posted by Suzukisam

Yes I agree this should not take an hour to diagnose. A/c is one of the easiest to things to diagnose on a car. I disagree on your equipment aspect by that I will challenge your dealership on an older Ford most don't have not even kept there old scan tools for them. Which is right key so due to they have enough work keeping up with the new and not remembering the old. You've been 20 years there give your young guys a f up eec 1v and watch the poor kid pull his hair out as you laugh. No replacement for experience. I have seen a young guy change injectors, could,plugs, for a cyl 4 miss code. Did not no basics that without compression it won't work. And that was at a dealer. So there is good and bad every where just like politicians. Remember mechanics have to fix their mistakes doctors just bury them

Good and bad everywhere is correct. I've seen small shops throw every part at a vehicle many times as well. Lots of vehicles have been fixed at small shops that may have been covered by an extended program by the manufacturers.

Small shop a few years ago meesed up a cylinder on an engine. 5.4 with a miss, they didn't diag what the problem was, assumed it was plugs. Told the customer had to have a combustion chamber cleaning done because plugs would never come out. Type A miss. Last thing you want to do is run the engine for extended periods. Changed plugs and a coil, still missed, told him to take to a dealer because they didn't know what to do at that point. Charged him not to fix it. I get it figured out it's an injector leaking, check data base and there is an program for free fix. Replace injector, runs better, but slightly rough, washed out the cylinder with the cleaner put through. Would throw mil on every 6 months or so. I repaired many injectors for leaking and never had poor compression after. This was not a high millage engine.

I'm sure we can trade stories all day long about dealers and independents making mistakes.

Most dealers will still have a NGS kicking around and BOB, maybe even stars tester. Depends on age of dealer. Can still get modern scan tool that will check codes on the older models. Problem is like all tools they wear out, can't be repaired .

Experience is everything in this trade. I've been doing it for a long time and still learning. The young guys have a lot to learn. I was lucky that my dad was an old school mechanic, learned a lot from him.

AC is getting more complicated on the newer vehicles, much more electronic controls . Constant running variable displacement compressors, different inputs that engineer have decided are needed, really do need to have proper manuals in front of you for some of these systems. Sometimes it is a reprogram. Unfortunately that's the way of newer vehicles.

[Peace Meal Farm]

no idea what the problem is from afar, but be aware that there are a couple known issues with the climate control system for escapes of that generation:

- water gets down the cowling and pools. this often (but not always) kills the blower motor resistor and leaves the blower functioning on high only. the water also pools down by the evaporator and causes all sorts of loony issues (weird suction and discharge pressures, almost looks like the compressor is on its way out even though it's perfectly fine). there is a tsb on this issue.

- the desiccant likes to rupture. this is not nice to clean up/flush. basically the whole works needs replaced. i don't think there was ever a bulletin for this.

happy hunting!

- your local stealership tech





kudos to those who are diplomatic in saying that there are good and bad techs everywhere - at the dealer, at independents, in backyards and even on the internet. 'stealership' is a very black and white term in a discussion which needs to deal with shades of grey.