Zimmrman case

[i_hate_snow]

Not sure why you guys think following someone is harrasment. You can follow and film someone all you want and they can't do $h!t Otherwise I'm sure a few celebrities would have "stood their ground".

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by i_hate_snow

Not sure why you guys think following someone is harrasment. You can follow and film someone all you want and they can't do $h!t Otherwise I'm sure a few celebrities would have "stood their ground".

Can I follow you and film you all day ?

Either way the case and decision should be over soon, I don't think there is any chance he will get murder two, There is maybe 50/50 he may get manslaughter or walk free.

[Fish along]

Except this kid wasn't being followed by a film crew, but by a wants to be cop trying to be a hero. I hope they throw the book at him.

[Fisherpeak]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

The difference is, he WAS assaulted.

Should have stayed in his damn truck.Or stayed home.Look after your own house.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by ali#1

Can I follow you and film you all day ?

Either way the case and decision should be over soon, I don't think there is any chance he will get murder two, There is maybe 50/50 he may get manslaughter or walk free.

I agree.

I don't think that they can prove intent here.
For that matter... I don't believe that Zimmerman set out to kill anyone.

I do believe that he has been proven to be a bit of a knob and poser however and that there is sufficiuent proof that his actions steered things towards a reasonably expectable outcome.... a physical confrontation that then gave him the excuse or justification to use that firearm.

More restraint on his part would have prevented this and he was the adult and the one in a position of authority who must accept the responsability of that.
The boys only physical fault appears to be that he might have over-reacted to someone who was following him.
However that over-reaction was likely triggered by a perceptable threat in thye form of a large adult male that was obviously intent on tracking him for no apparent reason.
Otherwise, he would have been wise to call 911 himself but.... would the police even respond under the circumstance and if they would... would it be fast enough to help him out if he believed there was an immediate threat to him?

The outcome proves one thing without a doubt... if that kid did believe that his life was potentially threatened by Zimmerman... he was obviously right.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

I agree.

I don't think that they can prove intent here.
For that matter... I don't believe that Zimmerman set out to kill anyone.

Of course not.

I do believe that he has been proven to be a bit of a knob and poser however and that there is sufficiuent proof that his actions steered things towards a reasonably expectable outcome.... a physical confrontation that then gave him the excuse or justification to use that firearm.

More restraint on his part would have prevented this and he was the adult and the one in a position of authority who must accept the responsability of that.

Position of authority? Because he was the neighbourhood watch?? What powers does that give him? How is he supposed to know that this large 17 year old wasn't 18?? I think Martin should have shown more restraint instead of attacking someone who was following him. You really want to set the precedent that you can attack someone for following you? Does this make sense to you? I agree that he shouldn't have gotten out of his truck, but I can't agree with attacking the guy for it..

The boys only physical fault appears to be that he might have over-reacted to someone who was following him.

Ya think?!?!?!?!? Oh my goodness.. MIGHT have over-reacted. Crazy!

However that over-reaction was likely triggered by a perceptable threat in thye form of a large adult male that was obviously intent on tracking him for no apparent reason.

If he felt threatened, he should have went home after he RAN WAY from Zim. You don't think it's more likely that he just wanted to confront Zim for daring to follow??

Otherwise, he would have been wise to call 911 himself but.... would the police even respond under the circumstance and if they would... would it be fast enough to help him out if he believed there was an immediate threat to him?

Well, he could have just walked into the house and called 911 from the safety of his dads girlfriends house. Ya, probably not worried about his safety hey?

The outcome proves one thing without a doubt... if that kid did believe that his life was potentially threatened by Zimmerman... he was obviously right.

You are absolutely right.. if you attack someone for following you, be prepared to pay the piper.

I really still can't wrap my head around people agreeing that you should be allowed to attack someone for following you, and then think that the person getting attacked can't defend themselves!! It's nuts!

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

I really still can't wrap my head around people agreeing that you should be allowed to attack someone for following you, and then think that the person getting attacked can't defend themselves!! It's nuts!

Not surprising to me, there are many in Canada who think you can't use a gun to defend yourself here. Sad thing is, many work in the legal system.

[Pincherguy]

Going to the jury tomorrow. I think he is getting manslaughter, Don't agree with it, should walk. 6 women on the jury, they will want to punish him but not too much.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by TomCanuck

Not surprising to me, there are many in Canada who think you can't use a gun to defend yourself here. Sad thing is, many work in the legal system.

I just find it strange that in some peoples minds, Zim should have just laid there and got beaten.. potentially do death. Or he should have waited until his injuries were life threatening...

[Pincherguy]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

I just find it strange that in some peoples minds, Zim should have just laid there and got beaten.. potentially do death. Or he should have waited until his injuries were life threatening...

He did the right thing, lucky he was armed. On the same note he could have prevented it by going right back to his truck.

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

I just find it strange that in some peoples minds, Zim should have just laid there and got beaten.. potentially do death. Or he should have waited until his injuries were life threatening...

I do think he over stepped the bounds of watch captain. Unless you were there from start to finish, there's no real way to know if it was a justified shooting. Certainly in Canada he'd be crucified given the circumstances. Plenty of people base their views on gut feeling vs. facts. Pretty scary. Hope I never have my life in the hands of a jury.

[sailor]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

I just find it strange that in some peoples minds, Zim should have just laid there and got beaten.. potentially do death. Or he should have waited until his injuries were life threatening...

In my opinion after you got your nose broken you can safely break his knee caps or what is more humanity what did Zimmermann.
BTW my son had assey to write in school about this and absolutely disagree with me

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by TomCanuck

I do think he over stepped the bounds of watch captain. Unless you were there from start to finish, there's no real way to know if it was a justified shooting. Certainly in Canada he'd be crucified given the circumstances. Plenty of people base their views on gut feeling vs. facts. Pretty scary. Hope I never have my life in the hands of a jury.

I agree.. there's no real way. He could have executed the kid for all we know. Not likely, but who knows?? The way it looks though, I don't believe, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he murdered the kid. My gut tells me that Zim should walk. Manslaughter most likely though.. outrage if he walks, so...

Ya, in Canada, he would have had to lay there and turtle, hoping Marting didn't go to far or hit him in the right spot etc. sad...

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by sailor

In my opinion after you got your nose broken you can safely break his knee caps or what is more humanity what did Zimmermann.
BTW my son had assey to write in school about this and absolutely disagree with me

What does this mean?

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

I agree.. there's no real way. He could have executed the kid for all we know. Not likely, but who knows?? The way it looks though, I don't believe, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he murdered the kid. My gut tells me that Zim should walk. Manslaughter most likely though.. outrage if he walks, so...

Ya, in Canada, he would have had to lay there and turtle, hoping Marting didn't go to far or hit him in the right spot etc. sad...

I've watched a bit of the trial last few days, I don't think they have made the case against him. As such he should walk. Should not have been charged, but the race card was played by politicos. Interesting news story without question.

[Pincherguy]

Originally Posted by TomCanuck

I do think he over stepped the bounds of watch captain. Unless you were there from start to finish, there's no real way to know if it was a justified shooting. Certainly in Canada he'd be crucified given the circumstances. Plenty of people base their views on gut feeling vs. facts. Pretty scary. Hope I never have my life in the hands of a jury.

He defiantly over stepped his bounds. When the 911 guy told him not to follow he should have high tailed it to his truck. He didn't and he was confronted by the kid. Did he shoot because he was in a life threating circumstance or was he looking to put the kid down? The evidence shows he was not the aggressor and defended himself. I would not want the rest of my life in the hands of 6 women.

[sailor]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

What does this mean?

I meant that I absolutely agree with you.Maybe on paper it sounds that broken nose is non life threatening.But everybody who been fist fighting knows there should be strong blow to break the nose.And after get your nose broken you would be looking for anything to protect yourself.What Zimmermann did

[Pincherguy]

If they bring all the evidence into play they would include Martins text and emails into play. He was trying to obtain a gun, he was asked by his little bother to teach him to fight, he was asked about his fighting with other kids at school. The kid was not innocent, he was a wannabe ganster punk.

[Fisherpeak]

Again,some self appointed, armed, rejected from the cops ******** starts following a "person of interest"gets out of his vehicle ,confronts him and next thing you know there is a dead kid.He called the cops,they said leave him alone,he carried on.I don`t get why some of you are saying he is legal.
Stand your ground does not mean follow a guy,mess with him and THEN stand your ground.If someone was following me I`d be pretty nervous and defensive.
Guilty of being incredibly stupid and macho at least.A guy with a handgun just looking for a chance to go all Bruce Willis on someone.Convict him.

[Pincherguy]

Originally Posted by Fisherpeak

Again,some self appointed, armed, rejected from the cops ******** starts following a "person of interest"gets out of his vehicle ,confronts him and next thing you know there is a dead kid.He called the cops,they said leave him alone,he carried on.I don`t get why some of you are saying he is legal.
Stand your ground does not mean follow a guy,mess with him and THEN stand your ground.If someone was following me I`d be pretty nervous and defensive.
Guilty of being incredibly stupid and macho at least.A guy with a handgun just looking for a chance to go all Bruce Willis on someone.Convict him.

We don't know what exactly went down, you could be right on, Unfortunately the oly one to survive this is Zimmerman. Speculation is 0 percent of the law, the side that presents the better evidence is the winner.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

I really still can't wrap my head around people agreeing that you should be allowed to attack someone for following you, and then think that the person getting attacked can't defend themselves!! It's nuts!

Position of authority? Because he was the neighbourhood watch?? What powers does that give him? How is he supposed to know that this large 17 year old wasn't 18?? I think Martin should have shown more restraint instead of attacking someone who was following him. You really want to set the precedent that you can attack someone for following you? Does this make sense to you? I agree that he shouldn't have gotten out of his truck, but I can't agree with attacking the guy for it..

Yeah position of authority.

First... once again the falsehoods.
That kid was not what I would call a large teenager.
He was a skinny 158 pound kid of about average height for his generation.
Previous reports of a strapping 6 foot 4 inch wrecking machine.... were false.

Second... Zimmerman is an adult or at least that is the claim.
He was the watch commander.
He was on duty.
He had recieved training related to self defence and the neighbourhood watch roles/responsabilities.
If that doesn't make him the authority between the two of them... what else would?

Ya think?!?!?!?!? Oh my goodness.. MIGHT have over-reacted. Crazy!

No need to be snotty... I said might and that is what I meant.
Might.
Unless we assume that the so called attack happened exactly as Zimmerman described and that the boy did it with no thought other than to fix some guys wagon.
We already know that Zimmerman was detected and if that kid saw a gun and felt threatened... then the attck may well have been justified within the same law that Zimmerman is using to save his pathetic arse.

If he felt threatened, he should have went home after he RAN WAY from Zim. You don't think it's more likely that he just wanted to confront Zim for daring to follow??

Perhaps but then again that option might not have seemed to be the best under the circumstances that only the boy and Zimmerman know.
Otherwise... I find it interesting that for some reason its OK for an armed adult to stand his ground by essentially hunting down a youth who had done nothing more controvercial to attract attention than wear a hoodie but... its not OK for the youth to stand his ground after being hunted by an armed adult virtually to his doorstep.

Well, he could have just walked into the house and called 911 from the safety of his dads girlfriends house. Ya, probably not worried about his safety hey?

Again... you are assuming that he could make that door. You are also assuming that the only consideration that kid had was for his own safety.
His attempt to lose Zimmerman seems to have been foiled and it is reasonable to believe that at that point the kid acted to prevent the endangerment of those he cared about.
Or he determined that a fight was inevitable so decided to start it.
A move by the way that almost worked.

I done the same thing... if there is going to be a fight anyway... you might as well start it since that gives you the best chance of winning.

You are absolutely right.. if you attack someone for following you, be prepared to pay the piper.

Oh BS.

That statement amounts to... if you are silly enough to bring fists to a gun fight... then you get what you deserve. Using that same logic... any phsical altercation justifies a disproportionate response. You let your dog pizz on my lawn... I turn doughnuts on yours with my truck.
Its BS... childish and I would have hoped... beneath you.

That said... at some point iniotiating a phsical ddefence is justifiedand in my mind...if someone stalks you... all bets are off.
Its not like Zimmerman just happened to be traversing the same ground behind the kid.
Its not like he was just minding his own business or that he simply asked the kid what time it was.
He WAS following him... by vehicle and then... when he thought he'd lost him... on foot.
He was very obviously targeting that kid and the boy picked up on that and felt threatened. And that is a matter of undisputed fact established through the investigation and in court.
The boy DID feel threatened.
Big difference between some guy that happens to be going your way and some boob that shadows you like some perv and then tries to detain you or make an approach...on the street demanding to know what you are up to.
You know... the way Zimmerman went about things is the same MO a lot of armed riobbers, freaks, rapists and serial murders work.ANYONE would be feeling threatened by someone stalking them like that.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Fisherpeak

Again,some self appointed, armed, rejected from the cops ******** starts following a "person of interest"gets out of his vehicle ,confronts him and next thing you know there is a dead kid.He called the cops,they said leave him alone,he carried on.I don`t get why some of you are saying he is legal.
Stand your ground does not mean follow a guy,mess with him and THEN stand your ground.If someone was following me I`d be pretty nervous and defensive.
Guilty of being incredibly stupid and macho at least.A guy with a handgun just looking for a chance to go all Bruce Willis on someone.Convict him.

Yes.
Well its all up to the jury now I guess.
We'll have to see what happens.

I wonder how long they will be out for.
My feeling is that the longer they are out... the better the chance of a guilty verdict.

I guess it isn't as cut and dry as some have tried to make us believe.

[deanmc]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

Yes.
Well its all up to the jury now I guess.
We'll have to see what happens.

I wonder how long they will be out for.
My feeling is that the longer they are out... the better the chance of a guilty verdict.

I guess it isn't as cut and dry as some have tried to make us believe.

This thread shows that very well. the mob mentality shown on both sides is embarrassing and dangerous. I cannot understand why so many people see issues as black as white while 99.99% of them are some shade of gray.

[sailor]

Originally Posted by deanmc

This thread shows that very well. the mob mentality shown on both sides is embarrassing and dangerous. I cannot understand why so many people see issues as black as white while 99.99% of them are some shade of gray.

We just theoretically assumed it is that one of 10000 cases or 0,0001% which according to your statement could be Black and White

[Pincherguy]

How many of us would be good jurors? We would have to sit and listen to all the evidence provided. As a juror you can not make up your mind until you have heard it all. This means you can not think that day one he is guilty, nest day well maybe not he is innocent. Day three he is defiantly innocent. Day four oh crap guilty. As a juror you can not make a decision until you have heard all the evidence. This evidence must be discussed and gone over throughly, then a vote is made. Not 100 percent one way or the other, discuss it again, vote again. Keep the process gong until all agree.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

Position of authority? Because he was the neighbourhood watch?? What powers does that give him? How is he supposed to know that this large 17 year old wasn't 18?? I think Martin should have shown more restraint instead of attacking someone who was following him. You really want to set the precedent that you can attack someone for following you? Does this make sense to you? I agree that he shouldn't have gotten out of his truck, but I can't agree with attacking the guy for it..

Yeah position of authority.

First... once again the falsehoods.
That kid was not what I would call a large teenager.
He was a skinny 158 pound kid of about average height for his generation.
Previous reports of a strapping 6 foot 4 inch wrecking machine.... were false.

Second... Zimmerman is an adult or at least that is the claim.
He was the watch commander.
He was on duty.
He had recieved training related to self defence and the neighbourhood watch roles/responsabilities.
If that doesn't make him the authority between the two of them... what else would?

Ya think?!?!?!?!? Oh my goodness.. MIGHT have over-reacted. Crazy!

No need to be snotty... I said might and that is what I meant.
Might.
Unless we assume that the so called attack happened exactly as Zimmerman described and that the boy did it with no thought other than to fix some guys wagon.
We already know that Zimmerman was detected and if that kid saw a gun and felt threatened... then the attck may well have been justified within the same law that Zimmerman is using to save his pathetic arse.

If he felt threatened, he should have went home after he RAN WAY from Zim. You don't think it's more likely that he just wanted to confront Zim for daring to follow??

Perhaps but then again that option might not have seemed to be the best under the circumstances that only the boy and Zimmerman know.
Otherwise... I find it interesting that for some reason its OK for an armed adult to stand his ground by essentially hunting down a youth who had done nothing more controvercial to attract attention than wear a hoodie but... its not OK for the youth to stand his ground after being hunted by an armed adult virtually to his doorstep.

Well, he could have just walked into the house and called 911 from the safety of his dads girlfriends house. Ya, probably not worried about his safety hey?

Again... you are assuming that he could make that door. You are also assuming that the only consideration that kid had was for his own safety.
His attempt to lose Zimmerman seems to have been foiled and it is reasonable to believe that at that point the kid acted to prevent the endangerment of those he cared about.
Or he determined that a fight was inevitable so decided to start it.
A move by the way that almost worked.

I done the same thing... if there is going to be a fight anyway... you might as well start it since that gives you the best chance of winning.

You are absolutely right.. if you attack someone for following you, be prepared to pay the piper.

Oh BS.

That statement amounts to... if you are silly enough to bring fists to a gun fight... then you get what you deserve. Using that same logic... any phsical altercation justifies a disproportionate response. You let your dog pizz on my lawn... I turn doughnuts on yours with my truck.
Its BS... childish and I would have hoped... beneath you.

That said... at some point iniotiating a phsical ddefence is justifiedand in my mind...if someone stalks you... all bets are off.
Its not like Zimmerman just happened to be traversing the same ground behind the kid.
Its not like he was just minding his own business or that he simply asked the kid what time it was.
He WAS following him... by vehicle and then... when he thought he'd lost him... on foot.
He was very obviously targeting that kid and the boy picked up on that and felt threatened. And that is a matter of undisputed fact established through the investigation and in court.
The boy DID feel threatened.
Big difference between some guy that happens to be going your way and some boob that shadows you like some perv and then tries to detain you or make an approach...on the street demanding to know what you are up to.
You know... the way Zimmerman went about things is the same MO a lot of armed riobbers, freaks, rapists and serial murders work.ANYONE would be feeling threatened by someone stalking them like that.

You win. If someone is following you, by all means, attack them. Then call the police and get arrested.

[BeeGuy]

158lbs?

How many here think they could have rag-dolled the kid?

Zim must have about 80lbs on him.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

158lbs?

How many here think they could have rag-dolled the kid?

Zim must have about 80lbs on him.

Ya, that's how fights work. If you're fatter, you win.

[BeeGuy]

You could always just, not fight back and then shoot them.

Maybe fake some superficial injuries later just in case.

What a gong show of a case.

Sad for the Martin family.

Is there a "Leaving well enough alone" Law in Florida?

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

You win. If someone is following you, by all means, attack them. Then call the police and get arrested.

Seems to be Ok in Florda if you believe that you are imminently threatened.
Actually.. its lawful her as well if you are threatened.

You do understand the difference between assault and assault and battery right?