Logging Starts Today in Kananaskis

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by 79ford

I fully support logging, weeellll technically everyone fully supports logging even if they don't haha!

Lumber and paper are about as important to society as coal, natural gas, oil and hydro power are in western canada.

Though i do find it funny when people try to say things like it creates habitat or controls wildfires etc....it does not create habitat the habitat is already there you just take the trees off it and replace them with tiny ones, wildfires....well they are pretty wild, no real stopping that, doesnt seem to be working in bc and thhey have mowed down a good half of their forest lol

Forestry is great in the fact it really doesnt contaminate or destroy an area permenantly. You can still slug down a jug of water from a creek no mater how much logging goes on on the hillside.

Logging creates a Different habitat... one that is often MUCH more productive for wildlife, especially in areas that have become single aged monocultures like exists in much of Kananaskis. As long as we continue with Wildfire suppression, we will need to log in order to maintain some semblance of a mixed and complete ecosystem.


Now I am wondering why Wildfire fighting includes making firebreaks by cutting down trees....

[Big Grey Wolf]

I have no problem with good logging practise, just "Stop cutting Baby Trees" that result in 50% of tree ending up on slash burn pile to go up as toxic dioxin & furan smoke and tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere.

[mattthegorby]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Logging creates a Different habitat... one that is often MUCH more productive for wildlife, especially in areas that have become single aged monocultures like exists in much of Kananaskis. As long as we continue with Wildfire suppression, we will need to log in order to maintain some semblance of a mixed and complete ecosystem.


Now I am wondering why Wildfire fighting includes making firebreaks by cutting down trees....

I spent a fall slash burning and fighting escapes. When we were cutting guard to contain the fire you not only remove the trees but you scrape away all the organic material that can burn.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

[79ford]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Logging creates a Different habitat... one that is often MUCH more productive for wildlife, especially in areas that have become single aged monocultures like exists in much of Kananaskis. As long as we continue with Wildfire suppression, we will need to log in order to maintain some semblance of a mixed and complete ecosystem.


Now I am wondering why Wildfire fighting includes making firebreaks by cutting down trees....

That is because you are fighting an active fire and can contemplate where it wants to burn the rip a strip down to bare dirt to try and contain it.


As far as building a fire guard by logging then replanting flammable trees..... good luck with that.

Usually fire suppression is the result of timber companies and the gubmint not wanting the resource burnt. Logging is utilizing the resource, there isnt really any benefit to animals or plants....kinda like running a bulldozer through our subdivisions and mowing them flat then saying it is better for farmers ,lol.

We need lumber and poop tickets and the gubmint needs paper to run their bureacracy. Trees are the easiest source of fiber and they are already there you just need to mow them down and truck them out. It is a necessary evil just like oil and gas.

I would be more worried about why alberta logs need to go to bc in the first place, that is probably a good issue for some one to worry about.

[koothunter]

I have an education in forestry and a fair bit of experience in the planning of logging permits. The ignorance here is amazing.

1. Most of the areas being logged are over mature lodgepole pine stands. (Just because they are small diameter does not make them young). This species is adapted to a stand replacing fire every 60-80yrs or so. We have suppressed fire so effectively that many of our forests are unnatural and ingrown (look at an airphoto from 100yrs ago). People wonder why there's less game in these areas, and a lot has to do with habitat that fires create. These over mature stands become stressed and create an abundance of food for the mountain pine beetle. They also create unnaturally extreme wildfires. Logging these stands helps create fire breaks (I realize cutblocks burn as well, but not nearly as intense ie. ground fire vs crown fire), can help reduce forest health issues, and provides a necessary resource.

2. Leaving individual stems or clumps of trees may look good for a while, but it is a poor practice unless the reserve trees are tap rooted. ie. douglas fir. Lodgepole pine and spruce will blow down and create a terrible mess, and often times companies will go back into the block to salvage the down trees, which can cause more actual harm to the soil and ground itself.

3. What's gonna have more erosion and silt in creeks a giant hot wildfire like Waterton or a patchwork of cutblocks on the landscape with forest floor mostly left intact. A no brainer.

4. Stop basing opinions of forests on what you've seen in your lifetime, because a forests lifetime is not the same as yours.

I could go on and on about previous comments, but I will refrain. Please become educated on things before you spout off that is "looks bad".

Forestry complaints get me all riled up, sorry for the rant.

Oh ya one more thing. The reason the logs are going to BC is probably because someone in BC is willing to pay more for it, plain and simple.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by koothunter

I have an education in forestry and a fair bit of experience in the planning of logging permits. The ignorance here is amazing.

1. Most of the areas being logged are over mature lodgepole pine stands. (Just because they are small diameter does not make them young). This species is adapted to a stand replacing fire every 60-80yrs or so. We have suppressed fire so effectively that many of our forests are unnatural and ingrown (look at an airphoto from 100yrs ago). People wonder why there's less game in these areas, and a lot has to do with habitat that fires create. These over mature stands become stressed and create an abundance of food for the mountain pine beetle. They also create unnaturally extreme wildfires. Logging these stands helps create fire breaks (I realize cutblocks burn as well, but not nearly as intense ie. ground fire vs crown fire), can help reduce forest health issues, and provides a necessary resource.

2. Leaving individual stems or clumps of trees may look good for a while, but it is a poor practice unless the reserve trees are tap rooted. ie. douglas fir. Lodgepole pine and spruce will blow down and create a terrible mess, and often times companies will go back into the block to salvage the down trees, which can cause more actual harm to the soil and ground itself.

3. What's gonna have more erosion and silt in creeks a giant hot wildfire like Waterton or a patchwork of cutblocks on the landscape with forest floor mostly left intact. A no brainer.

4. Stop basing opinions of forests on what you've seen in your lifetime, because a forests lifetime is not the same as yours.

I could go on and on about previous comments, but I will refrain. Please become educated on things before you spout off that is "looks bad".

Forestry complaints get me all riled up, sorry for the rant.

Oh ya one more thing. The reason the logs are going to BC is probably because someone in BC is willing to pay more for it, plain and simple.

Apparently a few don't understand forest fire behaviours. I've had to endure more than one forest fire suppression course (BC and Alta). Ground fire bad....crown fire REALLY REALLY bad.
Thanks for the rest, hope some will start to get it.......

[Taco]

Originally Posted by koothunter

I have an education in forestry and a fair bit of experience in the planning of logging permits. The ignorance here is amazing.

1. Most of the areas being logged are over mature lodgepole pine stands. (Just because they are small diameter does not make them young). This species is adapted to a stand replacing fire every 60-80yrs or so. We have suppressed fire so effectively that many of our forests are unnatural and ingrown (look at an airphoto from 100yrs ago). People wonder why there's less game in these areas, and a lot has to do with habitat that fires create. These over mature stands become stressed and create an abundance of food for the mountain pine beetle. They also create unnaturally extreme wildfires. Logging these stands helps create fire breaks (I realize cutblocks burn as well, but not nearly as intense ie. ground fire vs crown fire), can help reduce forest health issues, and provides a necessary resource.

2. Leaving individual stems or clumps of trees may look good for a while, but it is a poor practice unless the reserve trees are tap rooted. ie. douglas fir. Lodgepole pine and spruce will blow down and create a terrible mess, and often times companies will go back into the block to salvage the down trees, which can cause more actual harm to the soil and ground itself.

3. What's gonna have more erosion and silt in creeks a giant hot wildfire like Waterton or a patchwork of cutblocks on the landscape with forest floor mostly left intact. A no brainer.

4. Stop basing opinions of forests on what you've seen in your lifetime, because a forests lifetime is not the same as yours.

I could go on and on about previous comments, but I will refrain. Please become educated on things before you spout off that is "looks bad".

Forestry complaints get me all riled up, sorry for the rant.

Oh ya one more thing. The reason the logs are going to BC is probably because someone in BC is willing to pay more for it, plain and simple.

Where da hell's the Like icon ??

[Big Grey Wolf]

Only reason logging companies are taking "Baby" fence post size trees is almost no old growth forest left in Alberta. Logging causes more erosion/silt into our streams than a forest fire, heavy logging equipment and road building chews up the ground!

[koothunter]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Only reason logging companies are taking "Baby" fence post size trees is almost no old growth forest left in Alberta. Logging causes more erosion/silt into our streams than a forest fire, heavy logging equipment and road building chews up the ground!

Alberta really doesn't have true "old growth" forests because the species of trees don't really become "old", besides a few patches of douglas fir and some spruce. By the way, it's the Alberta government that decides where to log the blocks based on a mapping exercise called "sequencing". The forestry companies more or less have to stay in those boundaries.

If there is value in those "baby" trees, why not log them? People need fence posts, and most mills are set up now days to cut small logs. We could just keep high grading all the big mature timber if that would make you happier???

Your comment about erosion holds no water (no pun intended). The soils become hydrophobic (won't absorb water) after an intense fire (because of unmaintained forests ie. no logging) and erosion is a huge problem. There's places in BC that they have dropped straw bales from helicopters to try to minimize erosion on burned areas. A few roads and trails with proper culverts and drainage patterns cause very little erosion.

[ntsougri]

Below is a link to the map of what is to be cut in the headwaters region of Kananaskis Country.

I wonder how clearcutting next to creeks and rivers can be a good thing? I thought it was obvious that clear cutting has major erosion and habitat destruction consequences.

It will be devastating if the watershed in this area is adversely affected!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://postmediacalgaryherald2.file...ananaskis.jpeg

[muzzy]

Originally Posted by ntsougri

Below is a link to the map of what is to be cut in the headwaters region of Kananaskis Country.

I wonder how clearcutting next to creeks and rivers can be a good thing? I thought it was obvious that clear cutting has major erosion and habitat destruction consequences.

It will be devastating if the watershed in this area is adversely affected!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://postmediacalgaryherald2.file...ananaskis.jpeg

See the green 1/4 mile strip along the waterways. Thats an undisturbed bufferzone of trees to protect the streams

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by shorty

They will log, the animals will move, they will stop logging and the animals will come back. Clear cuts can be great habitat.

Exactly, these companies are not just going to mow it down to the bare earth and erecked condo's...save that crap for the cities.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by koothunter

I have an education in forestry and a fair bit of experience in the planning of logging permits. The ignorance here is amazing.

1. Most of the areas being logged are over mature lodgepole pine stands. (Just because they are small diameter does not make them young). This species is adapted to a stand replacing fire every 60-80yrs or so. We have suppressed fire so effectively that many of our forests are unnatural and ingrown (look at an airphoto from 100yrs ago). People wonder why there's less game in these areas, and a lot has to do with habitat that fires create. These over mature stands become stressed and create an abundance of food for the mountain pine beetle. They also create unnaturally extreme wildfires. Logging these stands helps create fire breaks (I realize cutblocks burn as well, but not nearly as intense ie. ground fire vs crown fire), can help reduce forest health issues, and provides a necessary resource.

2. Leaving individual stems or clumps of trees may look good for a while, but it is a poor practice unless the reserve trees are tap rooted. ie. douglas fir. Lodgepole pine and spruce will blow down and create a terrible mess, and often times companies will go back into the block to salvage the down trees, which can cause more actual harm to the soil and ground itself.

3. What's gonna have more erosion and silt in creeks a giant hot wildfire like Waterton or a patchwork of cutblocks on the landscape with forest floor mostly left intact. A no brainer.

4. Stop basing opinions of forests on what you've seen in your lifetime, because a forests lifetime is not the same as yours.

I could go on and on about previous comments, but I will refrain. Please become educated on things before you spout off that is "looks bad".

Forestry complaints get me all riled up, sorry for the rant.

Oh ya one more thing. The reason the logs are going to BC is probably because someone in BC is willing to pay more for it, plain and simple.

You really don't understand the forum do you....spew, spew, spew and then logic followed by spew,spew spew....some as the water cooler chat.

[Big Grey Wolf]

The forestry company West Fraser just prepares maps showing all streams on our trap line are "Intermittent" even though they flow all winter and have rainbow and grayling fish in them. Then they can log them right down to the edge to get every last tree, then comes the enormous erosion and silting of fish bearing streams.

[Albertadiver]

Add me to the list of supporters of this. It isn't pretty, but better than fire!

[CaberTosser]

I’m guessing those who are opposed to logging are posting from their 100% masonry homes sitting on their $1500 toilet seats equipped with the warm water wash probes?

[79ford]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

I’m guessing those who are opposed to logging are posting from their 100% masonry homes sitting on their $1500 toilet seats equipped with the warm water wash probes?

Logging will be getting alot more in ours faces even as of now and in the years to come. Most of what is referred to as not being in the 'line of sight' has been creamed over to a decent extent. The good stuff remaining is in steep areas and in areas not subjected to logging due to visual effects.

Lots of places in valleys have been logged flat waaaay back in the day, most of bc in valley bottoms is second growth. Most pine infested areas were burnt flat at one point in time.

People are usually high on their own moral pedestal. Its easy for some one to not like logging when they already have a house. Very easy to point out some one else should be using rocks or bricks or sod to build a shack.

Logging like oil and gas fuels our society, we need to rip down trees and burn alot of hydrocarbons to stay warm and survive