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Old 01-08-2020, 09:07 AM
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Default 35 Whelen Ron Smith Re-Bore Success

Dropped off a clean stainless Remington 700 in 06 to Ron Smith in Alberta for a re-bore. He was quite the character and great to chat with. Went with a gain twist 1-12 on the factory 24 inch barrel. Excellent Christmas gift for me as it was done ahead of schedule and during the break drove down to pick it up. Rifling was smooth as glass and chamber looked beautiful. Rifle is stock save a Limbsaver recoil pad and a Trigger Tech trigger set to 2.5lbs. Sooooo how does it shoot? I played with 4 loads using 225 grain Sierras, 225 Grain Accubonds, and 250 grain Speers Hot Cors, It did not take much, 225 Grain Accubonds and Varget produced 3 rounds touching at 100 yards, amazing! Shot one through buddies Chrono for 2755 fps! Thats moving, it is gonna hit like a hammer. OH ya, the cost....phone Ron but less than half the cost of a new barrel.
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Old 01-08-2020, 09:10 AM
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He is a great guy and produces some wonderful barrels. Glad yours worked out so well. That will make a tremendous all round hunting rifle.
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:46 AM
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I may have to squeak another rifle in there lol hes getting on in the years. He keeps saying hes not sure how much longer hes gonna punch out barrels but the next day, there he is. Great to deal with.
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:47 AM
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very nice, accurate and practical combination. Congrats.
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:54 AM
Pioneer2 Pioneer2 is offline
 
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Default Ron

Yes, you would have a hard time getting a barrel from him that wasn't gain twist.I had him re-bore a 50's Marlin 336/30-30 to 38-55 1-16" .376" groove to make use of both .375 and .377 bullets.Scoped shoots around an inch at 100 yards 1600fps with cast 276gr GC
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Old 01-08-2020, 11:13 AM
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I have a friend with wild boar running loose on his farm....may have to christen the Whelen this month.
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Old 01-08-2020, 11:59 AM
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Default if you get him

I'll send you a nice wild boar Italian sausage recipe I tried last week.
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Old 01-09-2020, 06:05 AM
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Hope you enjoy your 35. I have owned a couple 35 Whelen and currently own a 350 mag. For plinking trailboss and pistol bullets are fun. I have just tried the Barnes 180 x in my 350 and itís very accurate. Glad itís working out for you
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:00 AM
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Thought about the 180's but when you punch the bullets from 180-250 and calculate the energy at 300-400 yards the 225 wins. Its about as flat as the 200 grain bullets and more retained energy, but you got me thinking to look at the 180's again lol
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Old 01-11-2020, 11:52 AM
Kapustacrk Kapustacrk is offline
 
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Thumbs up Ron

Yes the man has made a lot of great barrels and rebored a few for me. Last one was an older rem. 700 from 30-06 to .338-06 LH twist, and shoots like all of his barrels. GREAT !! Hope to get a couple more done before he retires" !! Always have a good visit with him and his wife and son(Gerald) !! They don't make em like that no more. !! KAPCRK. !!
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Old 01-11-2020, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Dropper View Post
Thought about the 180's but when you punch the bullets from 180-250 and calculate the energy at 300-400 yards the 225 wins. Its about as flat as the 200 grain bullets and more retained energy, but you got me thinking to look at the 180's again lol


I thought about Barnes 180's as well. Shot a few 200's at the range and they performed very decently. BUT we don't own Whelens to shoot 180's and 200's right? Like you I settled on 225 AB's and I can say honestly that I haven't grouped anything tighter at 100-200 through any of my other rifles including the Creedmoor.

Great caliber. Very understated. Quite similar to the 338 for speed and thump out to 250ish with 225's and 250's with a lot more manners. Cheap brass being an added bonus. It has become the only rifle of the 9 I own that I will never sell.
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Old 01-13-2020, 08:34 AM
bubba300 bubba300 is offline
 
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Ron did a 308 model 88 winchester to 358 win for me.I was very happy with it.Not to many gunsmiths doing rebore's anymore,hopefully when he retire's Gerald will continue rebore's.
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Old 01-13-2020, 08:37 AM
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Last we spoke he was working on both boys to take over. One was farming and the other was in school. I sure hope one of them takes over, was great meeting Ron.
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Old 01-13-2020, 08:49 AM
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I stopped by the other day, but sadly the job we were discussing involved a very short carbine in 30/40 Krag (16.5" barrel) that would do me no good at all re-bored . Looks like I am getting yet another RKS gain twist 6.5 barrelled single shot!
A re-bore would have been great if it was doable However.
Looks like you have a winner with yours , congratulations!
Cat
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 270person View Post
I thought about Barnes 180's as well. Shot a few 200's at the range and they performed very decently. BUT we don't own Whelens to shoot 180's and 200's right? Like you I settled on 225 AB's and I can say honestly that I haven't grouped anything tighter at 100-200 through any of my other rifles including the Creedmoor.

Great caliber. Very understated. Quite similar to the 338 for speed and thump out to 250ish with 225's and 250's with a lot more manners. Cheap brass being an added bonus. It has become the only rifle of the 9 I own that I will never sell.
Absolutely! He builds them right. I have one in .35 Ai and it's a jewel. Wouldn't
ever be without it. It loves Woodleigh 250 gr PPSN and 225 Accubonds.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:33 PM
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35 AI how much real gain? This has intrigued me a ton! could clean up that chamber and go LOL
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:40 PM
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35 AI how much real gain? This has intrigued me a ton! could clean up that chamber and go LOL
Not much to gain velocity wise.. maybe 40 or 50 fps, but the Ai configuration seems to be easier on brass. Never had to trim yet and thats after about 8 fairly stiff reloads .
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:19 PM
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Not much to gain velocity wise.. maybe 40 or 50 fps, but the Ai configuration seems to be easier on brass. Never had to trim yet and thats after about 8 fairly stiff reloads .
I agree, most AI get 50-150 fps. Some cartridges benefit more from widening the body than others. The 300 H&H is a heavily tapered body with a low angle shoulder and benefits quite a bit velocity wise. AIing a 308 would be a total waste of time.

The one thing I did find with AIs is many, though not all, did not feed near as good as the smoother tapered original rounds. A 7x57 AI is a prime example of a cartridge that no longer feeds near as well. For a hunting gun I will give up 50 or 100 FPS for dead reliable feeding any time.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:46 PM
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I agree, most AI get 50-150 fps. Some cartridges benefit more from widening the body than others. The 300 H&H is a heavily tapered body with a low angle shoulder and benefits quite a bit velocity wise. AIing a 308 would be a total waste of time.

The one thing I did find with AIs is many, though not all, did not feed near as good as the smoother tapered original rounds. A 7x57 AI is a prime example of a cartridge that no longer feeds near as well. For a hunting gun I will give up 50 or 100 FPS for dead reliable feeding any time.
I think a gain of 150 fps might be stretching it a bit but in some rifles,maybe.

As far as feeding is concerned, I have never had an issue with my Mark X action but I agree, it probably could cause feeding grief in some rifles.
I use regular .35 Whelen ammo(for the headstamp) and fire form. Have'nt noticed a whole lot of difference between the two cartridges except as I noted previously, but I will say, either is a mighty fine hunting round.
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Old 01-15-2020, 12:05 PM
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35 AI how much real gain? This has intrigued me a ton! could clean up that chamber and go LOL
Skip the AI!

59g Reloader 15 and 250g Bullet and watch the chrony

Work up of course, but that was my go to load in my 7600. On a warm day it would break 2600, and in the hunting season 2550 all day long. Great for taking core samples on Bull Elk lungs.
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Old 01-15-2020, 02:14 PM
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Played with Reloader 15 last week, I cannot get over 56 grains with a 225 grain bullet. Not sure if the recipe has changed so to speak but a 250 grain bullet.....I couldnt see getting 59 grains in there. With newer powders specifically CFE223, Alliant Power Pro Varmint and 2000MR gents are comfortably getting over 2600 fps with these ones. The new Speer manual has these going up to 2700 fps but they do not indicate barrel length. CFE223 will be the next try but with the success of Varget and 2750 not so sure I am in a hurry.
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Old 01-15-2020, 02:29 PM
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I hear he does great work.

Thinking of getting my Rem 673 bored from .308 win to 338 federal or if he thinks he can Iíd go 358 win. I feel the Mohawks were meant to hit hard up close. So a 358 win sounds just right.

You guys and gals Think thereís enough meat to bore out to 358?
Not that a 308 canít get the job done
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Old 01-15-2020, 02:57 PM
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Genuinely curious to read studies (actual experiments) to show the effects of gain twist, and a few other things like 5 grove/ 4 grove barrels and what the results are for velocity and, more importantly accuracy.

If anyone has any neat articles ….. shout it out. Would make for an interesting read.
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Old 01-15-2020, 03:54 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Homesteader View Post
Skip the AI!

59g Reloader 15 and 250g Bullet and watch the chrony

Work up of course, but that was my go to load in my 7600. On a warm day it would break 2600, and in the hunting season 2550 all day long. Great for taking core samples on Bull Elk lungs.
I get 2600 with the same powder charge of Ramshot Big Game using a 250
Woodleigh on a cool day. As mentioned , not much dif with the Ai other than
extended case life. There just may be some additional benefit by using a more temp stable powder as well.
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Old 01-15-2020, 04:57 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Originally Posted by EZM View Post
Genuinely curious to read studies (actual experiments) to show the effects of gain twist, and a few other things like 5 grove/ 4 grove barrels and what the results are for velocity and, more importantly accuracy.

If anyone has any neat articles Ö.. shout it out. Would make for an interesting read.
I don't have any documented evidence but what I have found is that gain twist eliminates the possiblity of pressure spikes and is easier on projectiles, especially those with lighter jackets.
My reasoning is that std rifling is trying to do two things simultaneously with the projectile- allowing them to accelertate and starting rotation at the same instant , causing higher pressures upon the bullets contact with the lands. Slowing the initial rotation down by 50 %, or more, at the outset requires less pressure and causes less bullet stress resulting in a pressure curve rather than a possible spike.
Secondly, there is no real need to have the bullet spinning at over 150,000 rpm, for almost the complete length of the barrel. A few (4 or 5) inches of a given twist rate near the muzzle is enough to give it the required rotation.
Accuracy is not affected in any way and may even be enhanced as all my RKS gain twist barrels have proven to be exceptionally accurate, probably due to the progressive twist rate more than anything else I can think of, including lapping. Just my thoughts, cloudy as they are.
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Old 01-16-2020, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight01 View Post
I hear he does great work.

Thinking of getting my Rem 673 bored from .308 win to 338 federal or if he thinks he can Iíd go 358 win. I feel the Mohawks were meant to hit hard up close. So a 358 win sounds just right.

You guys and gals Think thereís enough meat to bore out to 358?
Not that a 308 canít get the job done
358 Winnie is perfect in a short action, never run out of 308 cases (I do have a bag of 20 358 Win doing nothing) I do think he could bore it to .358. Alot of gents love that calibre.
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