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  #31  
Old 01-10-2021, 01:13 PM
brewster29 brewster29 is offline
 
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Any bull in the 600's is huge if you're talking the same language: skinned, legs and head off. Those would be old and well fed.
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  #32  
Old 01-10-2021, 01:57 PM
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Iíve seen two bulls that were 350+ and they didnít hit 600-650lbs on the rail. You shoot some incredibly big bodied elk..... I would doubt this elk didnít weigh that much on the hoof, most donít.
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  #33  
Old 01-10-2021, 08:02 PM
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Thanks for all the replies. I have spoke to some friends and found 4 or 5 other people that believe they have been shorted by this butcher.

The butcher said they have another elk to do and they want me to bring my meat back and compare it to this other elk.

I am going to take a meat cutting course and do all of my own meat. Does anyone have a good local butcher supply store in Medicine Hat or north Calgary/Airdrie?
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  #34  
Old 01-10-2021, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by smith88 View Post
Thanks for all the replies. I have spoke to some friends and found 4 or 5 other people that believe they have been shorted by this butcher.

The butcher said they have another elk to do and they want me to bring my meat back and compare it to this other elk.

I am going to take a meat cutting course and do all of my own meat. Does anyone have a good local butcher supply store in Medicine Hat or north Calgary/Airdrie?
CTR refrigeration (high caliber) are great out of Calgary. You donít need anything fancy though. Sharp knife and your good to go.
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  #35  
Old 01-10-2021, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by silver lab View Post
Iíve seen two bulls that were 350+ and they didnít hit 600-650lbs on the rail. You shoot some incredibly big bodied elk..... I would doubt this elk didnít weigh that much on the hoof, most donít.

Agreed !


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  #36  
Old 01-10-2021, 10:51 PM
calgarychef calgarychef is offline
 
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Maybe the butcher didnít ďshortĒ anyone. It could be that he just throws away a lot, which isnít acceptable either but itís not like theft.
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  #37  
Old 01-11-2021, 01:44 AM
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Maybe the butcher didnít ďshortĒ anyone. It could be that he just throws away a lot, which isnít acceptable either but itís not like theft.
Its possible I suppose. But then they should say that. And I totally understand if an animal comes in gut shot, and full of hair, but I took really good care of the carcass and the guts didn't even get nicked in the gutting process. There was no brusing on it either as he was bedded.
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  #38  
Old 01-11-2021, 12:33 PM
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You either need to find the right butcher or do it yourself because the guy your are using is either wasting too much meat or isn't returning all your packages. There is one butcher in GP that we quit using because we were not getting back our own meat, and we know that for sure. It was H&M meats. Shawn's meats and Wapiti both do excellent work in the GP area. Shawn's you have to tell them if you want roasts or chops from the front quarters or they will put them in the grind pile but both places will cut and package to exactly what you asked for, both are completely boneless. No waiting to get the animal in, get it back in as little as 2 days if you are tight timelines. There are lots of good butchers, you just have to find them. If it wasn't for these quality options we would cut the meat ourselves.
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  #39  
Old 01-11-2021, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by calgarychef View Post
Maybe the butcher didnít ďshortĒ anyone. It could be that he just throws away a lot, which isnít acceptable either but itís not like theft.
I agree, that's possible.

45% of rail weight is probably average.

Sounds like you got a bit less than that, which could be a couple of good cuts went to the "house" pile or a bunch of poor ones went to scraps.

Nothing wrong with learning from someone with experience, but teaching yourself to butcher by just doing it is really very easy.

-----

390 pounds of deboned meat off an elk...
Those are incredibly Huge elk.


I'm not sure of the accuracy of my memory, but I recall there being some debate if the Wainwright herd are the Manitoban subspecies, the largest bodied elk.
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  #40  
Old 01-11-2021, 04:21 PM
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I usually look for a 1/3 of the rail weight, but I don't use any fat that I can cut off and am very picky about what I grind.
A good friend and butcher/sausage maker once told me that 'if you will not fry it up and eat it don't put it in your sausage or burger"
Cat
Me too. Exact same thing, I look for around a 1/3 to 40 percent after I am done cutting. This year I got 40 percent, last year had a terrible shoulder shot and got closer to 30. I am ULTRA picky when it comes to trimming as well, if its got white, its going out...It's a bit wasteful, but everyone who eats my sausage (...get your mind out of the gutter) comments how good and not gamey it is.
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  #41  
Old 01-11-2021, 05:59 PM
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If you think he is ripping you off ask for all your scrapes. All meat cutters are thieves or so everyone that brings in their own meat thinks. I cut meat for 25 yrs and was accused of stealing meat on a regular bases. most wild is brought in shot up and full of hair, dirt leave and pine needles
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  #42  
Old 01-11-2021, 08:03 PM
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I did some looking on the internet. The University of Wyoming did a study and they found that an elk give 50% of the field dressed weight back in boneless meat. Field dressed weight is gutted and legs removed but with head and skin on. They found head and skin weighs 73lbs. So 73lbs + 168lbs (boneless meat from a 2.5 year old elk) = 241lbs so that leaves 94lbs for the skeleton because they found a 2.5 year old bull is 337lbs average.

So my elk weighed 323lbs on the with no head or skin. So according to this study there should have been 239lbs of boneless meat. I received half of that.



http://www.wyomingextension.org/agpubs/pubs/B594R.pdf
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  #43  
Old 01-11-2021, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by smith88 View Post
I did some looking on the internet. The University of Wyoming did a study and they found that an elk give 50% of the field dressed weight back in boneless meat. Field dressed weight is gutted and legs removed but with head and skin on. They found head and skin weighs 73lbs. So 73lbs + 168lbs (boneless meat from a 2.5 year old elk) = 241lbs so that leaves 94lbs for the skeleton because they found a 2.5 year old bull is 337lbs average.

So my elk weighed 323lbs on the with no head or skin. So according to this study there should have been 239lbs of boneless meat. I received half of that.



http://www.wyomingextension.org/agpubs/pubs/B594R.pdf
Out him so other people don't get hosed.

praise the good guys from the roof, but if someone screws you...
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  #44  
Old 01-11-2021, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by smith88 View Post
The elk I shot was 323lbs on the rail, no head, hide or legs below the knee. I received 58lbs of cuts and 59lbs of trim back. Carcass was in great shape, very little hair, no spoilage or guts. I'm not happy....
I can always remember my old neighbor swearing up and downe butchers always stole meat from him.......lol
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  #45  
Old 01-11-2021, 08:51 PM
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If you think he is ripping you off ask for all your scrapes. All meat cutters are thieves or so everyone that brings in their own meat thinks. I cut meat for 25 yrs and was accused of stealing meat on a regular bases. most wild is brought in shot up and full of hair, dirt leave and pine needles
I got all of my scraps back, 60lbs of trim, but only 60lbs of cuts.
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  #46  
Old 01-11-2021, 09:00 PM
brewster29 brewster29 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by smith88 View Post
I did some looking on the internet. The University of Wyoming did a study and they found that an elk give 50% of the field dressed weight back in boneless meat. Field dressed weight is gutted and legs removed but with head and skin on. They found head and skin weighs 73lbs. So 73lbs + 168lbs (boneless meat from a 2.5 year old elk) = 241lbs so that leaves 94lbs for the skeleton because they found a 2.5 year old bull is 337lbs average.

So my elk weighed 323lbs on the with no head or skin. So according to this study there should have been 239lbs of boneless meat. I received half of that.



http://www.wyomingextension.org/agpubs/pubs/B594R.pdf
As stated before, I have cut up more than 30 bull elk and have not come even close to this percentage of boneless meat vs hanging weight after trimming fat and other non edible stuff. I have received 240 lbs from bulls that were about 500 lbs hanging. (In my part of the world those are large mature elk, scoring over 320")
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  #47  
Old 01-11-2021, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
I usually look for a 1/3 of the rail weight, but I don't use any fat that I can cut off and am very picky about what I grind.
A good friend and butcher/sausage maker once told me that 'if you will not fry it up and eat it don't put it in your sausage or burger"
Cat
I agree with this, 1/3 of rail weight is correct if you are a little picky about your meat. I have the same motto.
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  #48  
Old 01-11-2021, 10:12 PM
Battle Rat Battle Rat is offline
 
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Whether beef or wild, boned out is around 30% of live weight.
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  #49  
Old 01-12-2021, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smith88 View Post
I did some looking on the internet. The University of Wyoming did a study and they found that an elk give 50% of the field dressed weight back in boneless meat. Field dressed weight is gutted and legs removed but with head and skin on. They found head and skin weighs 73lbs. So 73lbs + 168lbs (boneless meat from a 2.5 year old elk) = 241lbs so that leaves 94lbs for the skeleton because they found a 2.5 year old bull is 337lbs average.

So my elk weighed 323lbs on the with no head or skin. So according to this study there should have been 239lbs of boneless meat. I received half of that.



http://www.wyomingextension.org/agpubs/pubs/B594R.pdf
The study does not show that you should have received 239 pounds of meat.

Your document claims 50% of skinned carcass weight in the University setting, 43% from butcher documents.

The discrepancy is probably due to extra care taken by the university and the reality of averages and the realities of butchers.

At 323 rail weight, you probably should have received somewhere between 130-160 pounds of meat.

So you seem to be just low of low side of the average return, but not by much.

where did it go?
Neck shots can easily lose more meat than a clean rib shot.
Some animals, especially younger ones, are just boney.
Lots of boney teenagers out there.
The butcher may have been a bit aggressive in trimming.

I think you are dealing maybe 10-20 pounds of unaccounted meat.

I would not lose any more energy over it and learn to butcher.
In a few years, you will be happy this experience gave you the kick to do it yourself.
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  #50  
Old 01-12-2021, 06:55 PM
K44 K44 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Battle Rat View Post
Whether beef or wild, boned out is around 30% of live weight.
Bull****
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  #51  
Old 01-12-2021, 09:13 PM
Battle Rat Battle Rat is offline
 
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Bull****
So sorry.
33% on wild game and 40% on beef.
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  #52  
Old 01-13-2021, 12:06 PM
Maxwell87 Maxwell87 is offline
 
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this is a decent chart that seems to go along with what most have said

here is the link

https://www.backcountrychronicles.co...ck-out-weight/
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  #53  
Old 01-13-2021, 03:36 PM
DRhunter DRhunter is offline
 
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Bull****
Double post. Delete

Last edited by DRhunter; 01-13-2021 at 03:48 PM.
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  #54  
Old 01-13-2021, 03:39 PM
DRhunter DRhunter is offline
 
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Bull****
Sorry, in what way is this information BS?

I cant speak from experience in Elk (do not weigh live or rail weight in my elk) but I can speak for for beef and Battle Rat was darn near bang on his first estimate.

For grass fed yearling hfrs, my experience has been that hanging weight averages 50-52% of live weight and cut and wrapped meat is roughly 59-65% of hanging weight (which is extremely variable depending on cuts selected). This means that cut and wrapped meat typically ranges between 27-32% of live weight.

To the OP, keep in mind there are different ratios for steers, feedlot fattened and selected cuts for Beef and will be no different for cow/bull elk, age, cuts etc. Just keep in mind that there are certain ranges that are probably acceptable or expected.

DR
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  #55  
Old 01-13-2021, 03:49 PM
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Guys here is the Key

it was bedded down when i shot it (Mule Buck)

some times the Hydrostatic shock in the meat around bullet channel

is unreal .. what a mess ... i cut my own meat

lost most of both shoulders n some neck meat

blood every where in meat

wow i will not shoot another bedded ungulate

just saying

David
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  #56  
Old 01-17-2021, 08:50 PM
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We just finished butchering two cow elk today, 270lbs total. These were not small cows and were picked very clean.
135lbs each. Take from this what you like, i wouldnít expect much (if any) more from a small bull.
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  #57  
Old 01-17-2021, 11:35 PM
skidderman skidderman is offline
 
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Have cut more elk, moose & deer than I can count. I don't weigh them but I am always a little surprised at what I get & I don't waste. One has to remember that what is left is pure meat that goes a long way.
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  #58  
Old 01-18-2021, 10:04 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Default wild meat cutting.

Few years back we had a wild meat cutting operation near Sherwood park that trimmed meat for their own sausage sales. I had a cow elk that gave me more packaged meat than my bull moose one year. I guess because I had good hunting year where I brought in buck muley, buck whitetail, cow elk and bull moose I had lots extra meat to contribute to his own private sales.
He was shut down a few years later.
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  #59  
Old 01-21-2021, 10:19 AM
mr.orange mr.orange is offline
 
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Originally Posted by smith88 View Post
Just a quick question, what do you guys expect to get back as a percentage when you get an animal custom cut? 40, 50, 60%??
I picked up my elk from the butcher yesterday. Dropped off 276 lbs hanging weight, got 192 lbs back...so a hair under 70%.
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