Redford gov't screws over Provincial Employees

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by TreeGuy

BH. Given your love of the combat sports, do you see the humor/irony in Ali#1's posts? Should of called himself 'George' in the rumbles of the AO jungle.

Rope a dope.

Never was a fan of Ali's but he knew how to deal with Foreman.

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by ali#1

Chuvalo ?

Bought his book today with some of my city union money. George co wrote it with Murray Grieg a good edmonton sports writer and friend of mine.

You must be tired and disoriented.....and it's the start of round eight.....

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by greylynx

How do the lakes and rivers come into play to be a "marine biologist"?

waters water right?

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

waters water right?

Nope.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

Rugatika....you know from my posts that I'm as far right as you, and dislike unions....maybe even more for that crap that I've experienced first hand..... BUT Ali#1 is....(gag, choke)...correct in that unions fighting for a share of profits in the form of wages and benefits, created the middle class.

Your references to Ford do not represent the common practice. Ford was a brilliant man and many years ahead of everyone...even ahead of many today But he was the exception.....and others that followed him (sort of), did it out of greed, hoping to achieve his success and profit,....but half heartedly and without full understanding. (You know the type of manager....comes back from a holiday/conference with some new and great way of doing things, and suddenly it's the company motto.....until it applies to something of theirs or costs more.....management by fashionable theory).

But the thing that ALi#1 misses is that the unions have also destroyed the middle class..... by not adapting to the times....and by not ensuring productivity is high (defending the slugs), making owners and management the bad guy, breeding antagonistic attitudes, and not ensuring their wage demands are realistic. Don't believe it.......how many companies have moved production off shore to relatively third world countries/wages.

So who is destroying the middle class....both...is maybe a more relevant question.

And if you read history, the concept of unions was fought against quite strongly by the rich and powerful and those that controlled industry for the most part.

Well yoi are half right.
What you are forgetting is that government has increased the tax on the middle class to prop up those who do not earn enough to support themselves and to offset the losses of cutting tax for corporations and the wealthy.

Further, workers have seen a decrease in the sharing of the profiits of their labour relative to the increase in profits since the 50's.
Naturally during that same time period suits have seen their wages i ncrease several hundred fold.

Sure...some unions...notably the UAW got silly but... they did not drive the economy down or kill the middle class.
Fact is even the auto companies failed fdue to bad bussiness.
Ford on the other hand acted reasonably and worked with their unions to make sure the company remained solvent.

Still...greedy owners, politicians and their henchmen did the bulk of the damage.

Now we have in Canada a government that dedicates fully 1/3rd of its moneys to welfare, grants, baby bonuses etc etc to help Canadians that do not earn enough.

Imagine a country where people earned a livable wage.
One where a third of your taxes did not have to be spent supporting others because they were out there earning and paying taxes and getting by all on their own.
One where perhaps your taxes could be reduced by a third.

Unless you are rich or plan on going on the dole it comes down to basically one of two choices.

Decide that you like to pay taxes and that you like tax increases so that you can offset the cost of others greed. Go along with the status quo and let your tax dollars make rich people richer while jobs are outsourced.

or...

Decide that enough is enough and that its wrong for people who already have more money than they can spend to make evben more by driving peoiple into the poor house on our dime.
Or... accept that common workers represent the majority on this country...that the majority has been getting screwed little by little for far too long and that the folks doing the screwing are an elite group wearing suits, paying politicians and controlling the media.

While many of us complain about our taxes going towards the poor...calling them slugs etc... the fact is that far more of our tax dollars are being used to assist people who make more money than we do...to cut our necks.

[BlackHeart]

And on which side of the political spectrum have union supported......the far left. And it is the far left that has as their basic principals, a belief in socialism. And what do you get more of with socialism???.....more social programs like welfare.

It is this kind support if political parties on the left (libs and dips) that has created our vast social safety net/nanny state of high taxation. It is this taxation of the middle class to fund the lower class and those living on our social systems, that has vastly helped create the tax burden on the middle, bring everyone in it down.

Ever wonder why old eastern money usually supports the liberals??? For the indenturing taxes that will be imposed on their workers but not themselves.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Nope.

I think you missed the point of the post dude...

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

And on which side of the political spectrum have union supported......the far left. And it is the far left that has as their basic principals, a belief in socialism. And what do you get more of with socialism???.....more social programs like welfare.

It is this kind support if political parties on the left (libs and dips) that has created our vast social safety net/nanny state of high taxation. It is this taxation of the middle class to fund the lower class and those living on our social systems, that has vastly helped create the tax burden on the middle, bring everyone in it down.

Ever wonder why old eastern money usually supports the liberals??? For the indenturing taxes that will be imposed on their workers but not themselves.

The right left labour before labour left the right.

Fact is the left got their hooks into unions because right wing politicians and right wing bussiness owners supported by police and bully boys drove workers there.... the same way that they are now driving workers that way now.

Otherwise... being socially responsible is communism only to those that wish to excuse their own lack of fellowship.
If more guys on the hard right were good Christians...now and then.... unions would not be associated with communism.

They would be seen as the by product of successful moral, Christian and responsible thinking for the betterment of all.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

The right left labour before labour left the right.

Fact is the left got their hooks into unions because right wing politicians and right wing bussiness owners supported by police and bully boys drove workers there.... the same way that they are now driving workers that way now.

Otherwise... being socially responsible is communism only to those that wish to excuse their own lack of fellowship.
If more guys on the hard right were good Christians...now and then.... unions would not be associated with communism.

They would be seen as the by product of successful moral, Christian and responsible thinking for the betterment of all.

I have never seen a middle class person working for a paycheque and wished that guy hardship or a paycut regardless of where he worked.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by ali#1

I have never seen a middle class person working for a paycheque and wished that guy hardship or a paycut regardless of where he worked.

Lots on here do, don't take it personally.

[great white whaler]

evryone is crooked in some way,,its just the nature of the game now days,,but not me the ,GREAT WHITE WHALE well not bend .

[rugatika]

Why is an employee of a company entitled to a share of the profits all of a sudden? If he wants a share of the profits he should buy shares in that company and risk his own money. OR like I have seen many times right here in Alberta. If an employee doesn't like working for a wage, start up his own company, risk his own capital and reap the rewards or reap the losses.


Talk about out and out greed and envy. What a bunch of children. You really have to stand back and ask yourselves who is being greedy?

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

Loosening the unions grip on Albertan's wallets isn't a bad thing. If union guys aren't making enough money or don't like conditions go somewhere else like private sector people do. No sympathy from me.

Oh yeah, wasn't it the teachers union that got Alice in wonderland elected? ROFLMAO.

IDNVFH

Its guys like you that prove to us why we need UNIONS even more today.

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by Icatchfish

good, Its about time. I don't understand why civil servants make 30% more than people in the private sector yet have better pernsion and better benefits.

going on illegal strikes and holding tax payers hostage is becoming pretty common these days

Because we fight for workers rights for a fair wage and secure pensions that we pay into along with good benifits that we all pay into as well.
Also we fight for full time jobs , unlike your private sector that want only part time help so they dont have to pay you paid vacations or sick days,and other benifits
Keep working for private non union shops and you will understand the true meaning of getting forked.

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by TBD

Why don't you tell us about your "great" public service benefits package, come on John ....

what do you do (besides troll on AO all day at work) - how many hrs per week - how many weeks holiday - pension - renumeration,,, etc etc

So whats wrong with holidays paid and pensions? apparently you dont get them working for some non union shop.

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Unfortunately with the large public unions and increasing taxes there will be no middle class.

What is wrong with Mexicans if they work hard and pay taxes?

Nothing ,we,ll send one up to take over your job cause he,ll work for 2 bucks an hr , hows that

[Weedy1]

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

Okay.....your missing a few things.

Now as to contracting out......not going to get deep into the dynamics other than to say it about private enterprise cherry picking, trimming costs and extracting the maximum profit for mininimum input......and any govt thats stupid enough (or envelope corrupted) to contract out such that they create monopolies or don't have the brains enough to write in measurable performance measures into contracts, is going to be raped.

And to back up your statement:

http://parklandinstitute.ca/media/co...nsparency_and_

http://parklandinstitute.ca/research...ivery_matters2

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by rugatika

What was the name of that company the unions started??

Oh yeah....Unicorns Incorporated.


unions have never created anything.

Capitalism created the middle class.

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa my god ,unions were the backbone of this country and have built most of the industry that lives here , Capitalist employers may have paid the wages , but without the unions and the workers there would be no Capitalists , because workers are the backbone of any Company.
lf a company cant get workers because of low wages, then that company will fall,and if it operates with scab labour or immigrants , then we are heading back to the days of slavery, and we all lose.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by Jimboy

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa my god ,unions were the backbone of this country and have built most of the industry that lives here , Capitalist employers may have paid the wages , but without the unions and the workers there would be no Capitalists , because workers are the backbone of any Company.
lf a company cant get workers because of low wages, then that company will fall,and if it operates with scab labour or immigrants , then we are heading back to the days of slavery, and we all lose.

Logic much?

It's not the capitalists that take half my wages. Who is the slave owner?

[TBD]

Originally Posted by Jimboy

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa my god ,unions were the backbone of this country and have built most of the industry that lives here , Capitalist employers may have paid the wages , but without the unions and the workers there would be no Capitalists , because workers are the backbone of any Company.
lf a company cant get workers because of low wages, then that company will fall,and if it operates with scab labour or immigrants , then we are heading back to the days of slavery, and we all lose.

Jerry Dias BIG LABOUR'S NEW LEADER - http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/2902778654001


Dias said he would uphold Unifor's promise to dedicate 10 per cent of its revenues to organizing workplaces and adding new members.

''The Conservative government has decided to challenge our democratic right to organize and collect dues. They are singling out unions. They're attacking our finances. They're attacking our ability to represent our members," said Dias.

Dias says he plans to use Unifor's size to influence change labour relations in Canada. "Unifor is here because it's time to stop playing defence and it's time we started to play offence,'' said Dias in his fiery inaugural address at Unifor's founding convention in Toronto. "It's time to stop reacting and it's time to start setting the agenda.''

ALSO -- Totally against secret ballot voting

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/09...n_3852805.html


This boy looks like Montreal Mafia ...

why don't you report back in a few yrs and tell us how much good this winner's has done for Canada or the workers he bullys into becoming members...

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Logic much?

It's not the capitalists that take half my wages. Who is the slave owner?

The capitalist make nothing without labour. It's a glass house to make money from nothing just ask the American economy, to make good steady money it helps to have a natural resource based economy like we have in canada. Try doing that without workers. We the middle class workers are the majority.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by ali#1

The capitalist make nothing without labour. It's a glass house to make money from nothing just ask the American economy, to make good steady money it helps to have a natural resource based economy like we have in canada. Try doing that without workers. We the middle class workers are the majority.

First, a capitalist can make money without others labor (local plumber, carpenter, doctor, etc). Second...labor does not need to be unionized. There are lots of middle class people that are capitalists. I never said you don't need labor. You just don't need unions.

capitalism [ˈkæpɪtəˌlɪzəm]
n
(Economics) an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange, characterized by the freedom of capitalists to operate or manage their property for profit in competitive conditions Also called free enterprise private enterprise

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by Jimboy

Uniorns

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa my god ,unions were the backbone of this country and have built most of the industry that lives here , Capitalist employers may have paid the wages , but without the unions and the workers there would be no Capitalists , because workers are the backbone of any Company.
lf a company cant get workers because of low wages, then that company will fall,and if it operates with scab labour or immigrants , then we are heading back to the days of slavery, and we all lose.

I think your missing a "C" in your post title.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

I think your missing a "C" in your post title.

It's a hybrid of unions and unicorns.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by rugatika

First, a capitalist can make money without others labor (local plumber, carpenter, doctor, etc). Second...labor does not need to be unionized. There are lots of middle class people that are capitalists. I never said you don't need labor. You just don't need unions.

capitalism [ˈkæpɪtəˌlɪzəm]
n
(Economics) an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange, characterized by the freedom of capitalists to operate or manage their property for profit in competitive conditions Also called free enterprise private enterprise

I'm all for screwing the middle class and giving it to the rich. What was that tax cut the rich just got ?.

[rugatika]

[QUOTE=ali#1;2228043]I'm all for screwing the middle class and giving it to the rich. What was that tax cut the rich just got ?.[/QUOTE

You're against tax cuts now?

[JimPS]

On one hand, our esteemed leader Allison Redford claims she worked with Nelson Mandela fighting for human rights when she was a lawyer - and - almost on the day of his death - leads a government that passes Bills 45 & 46.

What a friggin' hypocrite.

Then we have the WRP no saying they are now the champions of the "working man and what is left of the middleclass" - what a load of el torro poo poo.

More friggin' hypocrites.

Then we have Calgary Land developers saying gay and tatooed people are not welcome to live in new suburbs.

More friggin hypocrites.

A province that can ellect a gay muslin for mayor in a major city and at the same time continues to elect a complete goof like Rob Anders.

We are all hypocrites with some serious identity problems.

All we are missing is a charasmatic leader like Adolph Hitler to tell us to drink the koolaid or walk over the cliff.

I can see why they rest of Canada would like to see us separate.

[Sundancefisher]

What would people do if the could make one change to the union system?

I would change HR so that quality employees can get rewarded and bad employees get fired.

All union lovers will admit there are poison, dead wood, useless employees that getting rid of is next to impossible.

In most union shops there is absolutely no incentive to do better than anyone else. This lack of motivation stifles creativity and productivity.

IMHO

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

What would people do if the could make one change to the union system?

I would change HR so that quality employees can get rewarded and bad employees get fired.

All union lovers will admit there are poison, dead wood, useless employees that getting rid of is next to impossible.

In most union shops there is absolutely no incentive to do better than anyone else. This lack of motivation stifles creativity and productivity.

IMHO

Nepotism is great.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

What would people do if the could make one change to the union system?

I would change HR so that quality employees can get rewarded and bad employees get fired.

All union lovers will admit there are poison, dead wood, useless employees that getting rid of is next to impossible.

In most union shops there is absolutely no incentive to do better than anyone else. This lack of motivation stifles creativity and productivity.

IMHO

You severely under estimate personal pride.