Enough With the Mass Hysteria Already!

[HunterDave]

Boy, going through the Hunting section lately has been quite an adventure with people screaming about a lack of deer, getting rid of Sup doe tags, no rut happening, too many out of province hunters and on and on. It makes me wonder, but like those folk's knowledge of my hunting areas, I may have no intimate knowledge of the areas that they are hunting in.

Now, I don't claim to know what's going on in all WMU's, as I'm sure every region/WMU has it's unique issues, but when I read the negative comments about low deer populations in WMU's that I have intimate knowledge of, and I know differently, I have to wonder what guys are doing while hunting in those areas.

Here's a few tips that I'd like to throw out there:

I've watched deer coming out into the fields before last light for weeks and it only took one yardbird to drive around the edge of that same field ONCE during hunting season and the deer went nocturnal. The end result is that I now see fewer deer there.

The last hard winter that we had in this area was back in 2011 when there was a mid-winter thaw and then a freeze. This formed a crust on top of the deep snow that the deer had problems getting through but would hold up a coyote, and they had a field day feeding on the deer. The deer population has since bounced back.

Last year we had deep snow but no crust so the deer yarded up and were fine because, the past several years have been great growing seasons and the deer had plenty of food in the bush to eat and there wasn't a requirement to go out into the fields.

In most of Alberta, with the exception of the most northern parts, the rut always starts during the third week of November when the first doe goes into estrus triggering it.

Look, the more that something is repeated, the more that it becomes believable. Right now it sounds like some people are quick to jump on the bandwagon without really thinking about what's actually happening. How about everyone take a few breaths and figure things out before blaming everything and their dog for not seeing deer?

BTW, I'm in the bush everyday and I saw my first scrape of the season today.

[DiabeticKripple]

I'm seeing the same group of WT's every morning and night in this one field on the way to and from work. I know who's door I'm knocking on first day I have off.

I'm seeing tons of deer where I hunt. Moose too. So I'm not buying into anything anyone says on here. I'll get out there myself and have a look.

[blgoodbrand1]

One issue with this and any faceless Internet forum is that you don't always know who is providing the information you are reading. I know what knowledge is behind my posts and there are a number (small#) of posters that I can take their word as gospel. Aside from that I try to gather as much insight then take an average and go from there.

[Full Curl Earl]

Another one of these Dave? Your in the bush everyday and only found your first scrape a day ago? The Abysmal East side has had scrapes for a few weeks. I believe you said there were lots of deer where you hunt, so I wonder why the lack of sign? Maybe, as your thread suggests of other hunters, your not all that sure about your area?

[super7mag]

Not hysteria here but more like disheartening . I know without a doubt that the deer herds in the zones I hunt are down considerably from years past. That said I'm still out to hunt, I'm a hunter lol . If the right animal and I cross paths with luck I will harvest him. If not so be it Does get a pass by me but not by all . Coffee s on getting ready to head to the stand.

[Dan4570]

Its like I told my brother (whos been working too much to hunt this year,but wants to head out next week).
Dont expect too much if your not putting in the time. Going out a few days a season dont make you an expert.

[Salavee]

HunterDave .. "In most of Alberta, with the exception of the most northern parts, the rut always starts during the third week of November when the first doe goes into estrus triggering it."

Please tell us more! Where did you come up with this?
The Buck I saw mounting a Doe on Nov 4 must have read an outdated calendar.

Lots of oddball theories on here. Most lacking much factual info.

[densa44]

I'm out there every day too in 206, and I don't drive my truck around the dead furrow etc. The dogs and I are walking, I'm in orange and so are the dogs, pls don't shoot us, we are still hunting Pheasants and I need the exercise.

However there seem to be lots of deer, yesterday as I was driving home I saw 2 wts in a field. and I didn't even slow down but the moment they saw the truck the headed into the bush, flags flying.

I wonder why a truck driving on the road would spook deer?

[catnthehat]

The photoreactive period which triggers estrus for white tails in Alberta starts around November.

If the gestation is between 180 and 220 days ( give or take) , and most fawns are born between May and June, count it back about 6.5-7 months and that will give you the approximate rutting period for the area.
Of course, there are late fawns and early fawns, depending when an individual doe comes into heat.

If a doe doesn't get bred in her first estrus , she will cycle again in about 2days IIRC( it's been some time since I have actively studied this stuff).
The further south oiione goes, the longer the rut is.

Down in places near the Equator, members of the deer family can carry hard antler all year round and the does can come onto heat any time of year.
Cat

[Dog hunter]

Mass hysteria ?? I spend a lot of days in the bush, probably 300 days a year between work and hunting and there is no arguing that numbers are way down in the 350,360,542,544,511some areas that were full of deer 3 years ago, i went to see two days after the new snow and there were no tracks to be found even the wolves and coyotes are gone in 542 all i could find was some outfitters bear bait trash everywhere , i think that nocturnal deer leave tracks dont they dave? Not saying there are no deer out there but some areas have been completely wiped out

[Don K]

Lmao! You're right!!!
There's 4 or 5 WT on our place, we need to get back to 2 sup WT tags and a general as well. There's a group of 15 mulie does down the road feeding in 1 field as well. Why the heck do t we get 3 antlerless mule deer tags each as well as was the case a few years back.
Are you kidding me? In the vast majority of zones numbers are down! I'm not n the bush 'everyday' but in my travels as well as others in our circle who are in the bush A LOT, the evidence is there.

[Lr1000]

Don't forget the mass hysteria of ppl scared of bear threads...

[58thecat]

Huh, I was in southern Alberta WMU 136 for 3 days counted, passed up easily 20 deer a day if not more, rattled in whitetail bucks, passed up, two mule deer bucks were taken and now the father in law just took a beauty whitetail yesterday, up here in north east Alberta WMU 501 there are tracks all over the place, scrapes opening up and I have rattled in 5 whitetail bucks to date, heard noise in the bush of deer running around etc but never saw them because they are in the woods. I believe up here with all the new acreages etc the deer tend to stay in the woods more, were I had seen deer in the fields I now see them in the bush so I placed my stands deeper in the bush and have seen more deer. Deer adapt so the hunter needs to adapt...they are there just got to be willing to put the time in, sit in minus 20 weather for 6 hrs. Enjoy the hunt!

[RZR]

[QUOTE=HunterDave;2617330]
The last hard winter that we had in this area was back in 2011 when there was a mid-winter thaw and then a freeze. This formed a crust on top of the deep snow that the deer had problems getting through but would hold up a coyote, and they had a field day feeding on the deer. The deer population has since bounced back.

I takes longer than 3yrs. for a rebound in population.

[crownb]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Boy, going through the Hunting section lately has been quite an adventure with people screaming about a lack of deer, getting rid of Sup doe tags, no rut happening, too many out of province hunters and on and on. It makes me wonder, but like those folk's knowledge of my hunting areas, I may have no intimate knowledge of the areas that they are hunting in.

Now, I don't claim to know what's going on in all WMU's, as I'm sure every region/WMU has it's unique issues, but when I read the negative comments about low deer populations in WMU's that I have intimate knowledge of, and I know differently, I have to wonder what guys are doing while hunting in those areas.

Here's a few tips that I'd like to throw out there:

I've watched deer coming out into the fields before last light for weeks and it only took one yardbird to drive around the edge of that same field ONCE during hunting season and the deer went nocturnal. The end result is that I now see fewer deer there.

The last hard winter that we had in this area was back in 2011 when there was a mid-winter thaw and then a freeze. This formed a crust on top of the deep snow that the deer had problems getting through but would hold up a coyote, and they had a field day feeding on the deer. The deer population has since bounced back.

Last year we had deep snow but no crust so the deer yarded up and were fine because, the past several years have been great growing seasons and the deer had plenty of food in the bush to eat and there wasn't a requirement to go out into the fields.

In most of Alberta, with the exception of the most northern parts, the rut always starts during the third week of November when the first doe goes into estrus triggering it.

Look, the more that something is repeated, the more that it becomes believable. Right now it sounds like some people are quick to jump on the bandwagon without really thinking about what's actually happening. How about everyone take a few breaths and figure things out before blaming everything and their dog for not seeing deer?

BTW, I'm in the bush everyday and I saw my first scrape of the season today.

Wow, I could believe most of what you said till you spilled the beans and said you are in the bush everyday and you finally saw your first scrape, this tells me your area is suffering really bad, I started seeing scrapes in the last week of October, and by no means is my area pounded with deer, this is by far the worst year ever in 338 that I have seen, talking to every hunter I see up there and they are all extremely dissapointed except for one guy, he said this is the best day of hunting ever as he and his buddy were field dressing a doe and a fawn, I said congratulations first then I asked what's the secret, he says this is our third day hunting this year in 338 and these are the first to deer they saw, WOW, to them this was the best zone ever because these were the first deer that each of them harvested. I explained that seeing 2 deer in three days really isn't that good, after a minute he said you know your right we were just taking about heading home because there is no game up here, anyway I gave them a hand with the field dressing and helped them load up and they were on their way a couple of happy hunters, good for them, but this is the mis conception, they will go home and be like that is the best zone ever it was awesome we each got a deer, but in reality it is terrible for deer numbers.

[Pathfinder76]

Here are my observations from this morning. The bucks are actively looking. I saw over 100 WT's and over 50 elk. And road warriors can really screw up a hunt.

[double gun]

Originally Posted by chuck

Here are my observations from this morning... ...over 50 elk.

So when are you taking me elk hunting?

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by double gun

So when are you taking me elk hunting?

I'd tell you where they were, but you wouldn't believe me.

[RayM77]

Originally Posted by densa44

However there seem to be lots of deer, yesterday as I was driving home I saw 2 wts in a field.

This right here is the problem. Do you really think seeing two deer in a field is a lot? I think this boils down to perspective. When numbers were high and supplemental tags were justified I could go scouting and see 200 Whitetails in a night. Some quarters holding as many as 50 deer during hunting season (not January in someone feed lot). Now if you spent the same amount of time you would be lucky to see 10 (on a very good day).
What is a lot of deer to you Dave? To mee it's seeing 20-50 on a quarter or half section (in pockets). For some as in the above quote, seeing 2 deer on the drive home means they are over run.
Again what do you think is a lot of deer Dave?

[crownb]

Originally Posted by Stinkhammer

This right here is the problem. Do you really think seeing two deer in a field is a lot? I think this boils down to perspective. When numbers were high and supplemental tags were justified I could go scouting and see 200 Whitetails in a night. Some quarters holding as many as 50 deer during hunting season (not January in someone feed lot). Now if you spent the same amount of time you would be lucky to see 10 (on a very good day).
What is a lot of deer to you Dave? To mee it's seeing 20-50 on a quarter or half section (in pockets). For some as in the above quote, seeing 2 deer on the drive home means they are over run.
Again what do you think is a lot of deer Dave?

100 per cent agreed.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by Salavee

HunterDave .. "In most of Alberta, with the exception of the most northern parts, the rut always starts during the third week of November when the first doe goes into estrus triggering it."

Please tell us more! Where did you come up with this?
The Buck I saw mounting a Doe on Nov 4 must have read an outdated calendar.

Lots of oddball theories on here. Most lacking much factual info.

I doubt you seen a buck actually breeding a doe Nov. 4th.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Boy, going through the Hunting section lately has been quite an adventure with people screaming about a lack of deer, getting rid of Sup doe tags, no rut happening, too many out of province hunters and on and on. It makes me wonder, but like those folk's knowledge of my hunting areas, I may have no intimate knowledge of the areas that they are hunting in.

Now, I don't claim to know what's going on in all WMU's, as I'm sure every region/WMU has it's unique issues, but when I read the negative comments about low deer populations in WMU's that I have intimate knowledge of, and I know differently, I have to wonder what guys are doing while hunting in those areas.

Here's a few tips that I'd like to throw out there:

I've watched deer coming out into the fields before last light for weeks and it only took one yardbird to drive around the edge of that same field ONCE during hunting season and the deer went nocturnal. The end result is that I now see fewer deer there.

The last hard winter that we had in this area was back in 2011 when there was a mid-winter thaw and then a freeze. This formed a crust on top of the deep snow that the deer had problems getting through but would hold up a coyote, and they had a field day feeding on the deer. The deer population has since bounced back.

Last year we had deep snow but no crust so the deer yarded up and were fine because, the past several years have been great growing seasons and the deer had plenty of food in the bush to eat and there wasn't a requirement to go out into the fields.

In most of Alberta, with the exception of the most northern parts, the rut always starts during the third week of November when the first doe goes into estrus triggering it.

Look, the more that something is repeated, the more that it becomes believable. Right now it sounds like some people are quick to jump on the bandwagon without really thinking about what's actually happening. How about everyone take a few breaths and figure things out before blaming everything and their dog for not seeing deer?

BTW, I'm in the bush everyday and I saw my first scrape of the season today.

This^^
Tip of the day....if your not seeing any/many deer,try getting out of yer truck and taking a hike.

Originally Posted by catnthehat

The photoreactive period which triggers estrus for white tails in Alberta starts around November.

If the gestation is between 180 and 220 days ( give or take) , and most fawns are born between May and June, count it back about 6.5-7 months and that will give you the approximate rutting period for the area.
Of course, there are late fawns and early fawns, depending when an individual doe comes into heat.

If a doe doesn't get bred in her first estrus , she will cycle again in about 2days IIRC( it's been some time since I have actively studied this stuff).
The further south oiione goes, the longer the rut is.

Down in places near the Equator, members of the deer family can carry hard antler all year round and the does can come onto heat any time of year.
Cat

C'mon Cat,that's a 40 day window you posted, pretty hard to nail down peak breeding date by that.
Fwiw,whitetail gestation period is 198 days give or take.
Fwiw,the "rut" is never late nor early,the peak breeding date is ALWAYS the same Nov.25 give or take a day or two,well documented by biologists that collect,study and weigh fetuses from roadkilled doe and backdate to determine breeding date.

I seen a young buck tailing a doe on Nov 12....WOw,peak rut must be Nov 12,lol
Alternatively,respected expert WT biologists have weighed and measured a sample size measured in the thousands of unborn fetuses during an ongoing study spanning several years,and determined that the peak breeding consistently falls between Niv 23-27 EVERY YEAR!!!Cold weather,hot weather,snowstorms,buck:doe ratio,latitude,longitude,moon phase/solunar tables et all be damned,the peak BREEDING date is consistantly Nov.23-27 across North America....PERIOD.
.....who am I to argue?

[Thinlizzy]

In the area I hunt during bow season there was over 100 deer on one farmers property. Two days after rifle season and I now see between 3 to 10. Why? From road hunters and people driving in the fields.
The pressure has drove them all into the bush. The area is still good but the deer are hiding plain and simple.
That's what happened in my area at least.

[crownb]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

I doubt you seen a buck actually breeding a doe Nov. 4th.

Really, I guess you were there. I have seen bucks chasing does in October and in late December for that matter, or maybe I am lieing!!! My cousin shot a bull moose off a cows back or just right after he bred her on the last day of the season November 30th, I was there were you?

[grinr]

Originally Posted by crownb

Really, I guess you were there. I have seen bucks chasing does in October and in late December for that matter, or maybe I am lieing!!! My cousin shot a bull moose off a cows back or just right after he bred her on the last day of the season November 30th, I was there were you?

Absolutely "some" does are bred late October as well as late December and in heavily skewed doe:buck populations well into Jan and Feb,esp. in more southern latitudes of WT range in North America.......but the peak breeding date across the board remains the same Nov.25+/-.
The "rut" is never early nor late despite what both armchair experts and experienced hunters alike might claim.Weigh and measure thousands of roadkilled fetuses from Alberta to Nova Scotia to Florida to Texas to Wyoming and the numbers don't lie nor surmise,it is what it is.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by crownb

Really, I guess you were there. I have seen bucks chasing does in October and in late December for that matter, or maybe I am lieing!!! My cousin shot a bull moose off a cows back or just right after he bred her on the last day of the season November 30th, I was there were you?

Didn't say anything about bucks chasing does or about moose. Just because a buck is playing around with a doe doesn't mean they are actually breeding. Mounting a doe and actually doing the deed is 2 different things. There is a reason why deer breed when they do, so that fawns aren't born to late or to early.
I am sure there are a few exceptions, but not enough to say that the rut is on.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by Thinlizzy

In the area I hunt during bow season there was over 100 deer on one farmers property. Two days after rifle season and I now see between 3 to 10. Why? From road hunters and people driving in the fields.
The pressure has drove them all into the bush. The area is still good but the deer are hiding plain and simple.
That's what happened in my area at least.

Touché...all this weeks since Monday I've been hunting a field that consistantly has 20-30 deer on it,beginning around 15:30 and by 17:00 they are literally pouring into the field.Last night....Friday night and the weekend warriors that come with...no less than 5 trucks stopped to look and scatter deer....only 3 deer back in the field at 17:20.Thursday night,26 deer in my view at 16:45....truck pulls up to gate,2 guys out with binos(pleasantly surprised not rifles?)....26 deer hightailing it for the bush,30 min before the resident 160 class buck likes to make his appearance....thx ALOT!!
Seriously guys,if you don't have permission....keep moving/nothing to see here.

[Chewbacca]

I'd like the able to shoot what walks through my back yard and I live in town.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

There is a reason why deer breed when they do, so that fawns aren't born to late or to early.
I am sure there are a few exceptions, but not enough to say that the rut is on.

ABSOLUTELY!!
In a perfect world,does are bred late November/fawns born late May....that's how nature intends it.Heavily skewed doe:buck ratios leads to all sorts of problems.Late bred does= late born fawns= lower pre-winter weights= lower winter survival and/or longer spring recovery period= less energy directed towards antler growth and on and on and on.....yes there is such a problem as "too many" deer.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by grinr

ABSOLUTELY!!
In a perfect world,does are bred late November/fawns born late May....that's how nature intends it.Heavily skewed doe:buck ratios leads to all sorts of problems.Late bred does= late born fawns= lower pre-winter weights= lower winter survival and/or longer spring recovery period= less energy directed towards antler growth and on and on and on.....yes there is such a problem as "too many" deer.

Agreed. Many factors come into play.