How we have changed

[pikergolf]

A couple stories here touched my heart. Empathy is what it was, the ability to put yourself in the shoes of the guy at the gate with no meal, the ability to put yourself in the shoes of the old man visiting his wife. If you teach empathy you won't have to teach looking after others or not bullying or a host of other do not's. Well done fellows.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

They are your world, you live for your kids. Do you think that's right? What about your life? That comes after they move out right?

I never had kids - but not for the reasons you suspect. I've been doing my own thing for longer than I can remember. I never have been married - nor will I - and I will never be in a situation where divorce destroys me or kids. Been dragged through too many divorces by other people, seen intimately what it does to people. Happy just the way I am thanks. Everyone calls me nuts until their wife files divorce papers.

Nothing to feel sorry about either fitzy, had a long heart to heart with my parents. We were all the same growing up.

As for society's take on kids... We are screwed.

Wow, you have your perspective on your life, seems others have been a bad influence as well on you, so many divorces, negative impact on all involved...parents should live for thier kids, put the effort and time in, see them grow up to mature, caring adults this is all the greatness of being a parent, the good times, the bad times, learning from them and persevering what life throws at you, after they move out and find there way you as a parent have the great feeling that they will be ok and they do come home and when they do you can see the thank you mom/dad In thier eyes.
I think we are good to go with the children that will be adults soon, more good ones than bad, way more gadget wavy then me and hey that's ok too.

[tchammer]

Originally Posted by sjemac

Scenario*:
Robbie won't be still in class, disrupts other students.*

1950s -*Robbie* sent to the office and given six of the best by the Principal.
Returns to class, sits still for that day. A few days later, he acts out again and is given another 6 by the principal and a few more at home for good measure. For some reason he can't stop acting out in class and is getting 6 "good ones" from the principal on a fairly regular basis -- plus the ever increasing dose of "home correction" that follows the "good ones" at school. By 10 Robbie hates school and his parents are fed up. They pull him from school to the great relief of the principal and put him to work on the farm where he remains for 50 years -- uneducated and broken down by accidents and hard labour.

2010's*-*Robbie's behaviour is deemed by his teacher to be a symptom of boredom and frustration. Referred to the special education teacher who does a Level B test and determines that there may be a learning disability. The school ponies up $1000 to have an educational psychologist come in and do a Level C. That test indicates that Robbie does indeed have some attention deficit problems that are coupled with an inability to process written text quickly. The school begins providing content to Robbie in different formats other than text and the Family School Wellness worker begins meeting with Robbie weekly in order to help him deal with his frustrations in a manner that does not disrupt the class. A further visit to a pediatrician leads to Robbie getting a prescription for Concerta to help him bridge the early years as he learns how to cope in an environment that is difficult for him to understand and process. His parents are directly consulted on every step of this process. By grade 10 Robbie has turned the corner is off the Concerta and is now succeeding at school and while his outbursts are not gone completely they have lessened considerably. In 2016 in grade 12 Robbie is valedictorian and going on to engineering at UofA where his first year is a resounding success and he is near the top of his class.

Those are both true stories. 1950 was my uncle and 2016 was one of my former students. Both stories are fairly representative of how things were done and are done now.

Thank-you, at least I now know why the younger engineers that I deal with frequently are so inept and incapable of any semblance of logical thought processes.

If you get to generalize, so can I!

[CMichaud]

Yep...things were so much better back in the day....except that part about male life expectancy being 68.5 years in 1951 vs 80.7 years in 2005/2007.

Course then there was infant mortality rates. Per CDC

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4838a2.htm

At the beginning of the 20th century, for every 1000 live births, six to nine women in the United States died of pregnancy-related complications, and approximately 100 infants died before age 1 year. From 1915 through 1997, the infant mortality rate declined greater than 90% to 7.2 per 1000 live births, and from 1900 through 1997, the maternal mortality rate declined almost 99% to less than 0.1 reported death per 1000 live births (7.7 deaths per 100,000 live births in 1997)

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by tchammer

Thank-you, at least I now know why the younger engineers that I deal with frequently are so inept and incapable of any semblance of logical thought processes.

If you get to generalize, so can I!

Ahh. You're one of those.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by CMichaud

Yep...things were so much better back in the day....except that part about male life expectancy being 68.5 years in 1951 vs 80.7 years in 2005/2007.

Course then there was infant mortality rates. Per CDC

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4838a2.htm

At the beginning of the 20th century, for every 1000 live births, six to nine women in the United States died of pregnancy-related complications, and approximately 100 infants died before age 1 year. From 1915 through 1997, the infant mortality rate declined greater than 90% to 7.2 per 1000 live births, and from 1900 through 1997, the maternal mortality rate declined almost 99% to less than 0.1 reported death per 1000 live births (7.7 deaths per 100,000 live births in 1997)

There are worse things than dying. If you want to talk about infant mortality ., you may want to include all those who are flushed down the drain intentionally
Of course tech advances in medicine are amazing. No one ever said everything was better in the good old days, but many things were. Can your kids play out in the street or ride their bike to the community pool a couple miles away? Were there drugs every where?

I grew up in the city, and saw or heard of very little violent crime,
Now I know at least a dozen victims of it. How was your neighbourhood.

When I was 13 years old I had a job at the local pharmacy. I delivered prescription drugs on my bike. Try that today.

[CMichaud]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

There are worse things than dying. If you want to talk about infant mortality ., you may want to include all those who are flushed down the drain intentionally

Yep you are right, my wife and kids dying is much worse than my mortality.

Lots of crap was going on in the "old days" The difference now is the instant and available media coverage that makes us aware.



Not getting dragged into pro life/pro choice debate.

[300magman]

Anyone who has kids that dont think they are the most important thing in their life sure are missing out on the reason we have been put on this planet. Thats not to say you coddle them and tell them they are the best at everything they ever do, etc, but at the end of the day the purpose of our lives is to reproduce, at the simplest of levels, that is why we are here. And then to do our best ensure that those offspring grow up and continue the survival of the species.

In my opinion, if you have children and they arent the most important thing in your life, you need to have a long, hard look at your life and figure out why. And those that don't have kids have as much of a right to make assumptions about being a parent as I do about being an astronaut. Parenting is by far the greatest thing I have done....its not always easy, but everyday i watch my boy grow into more of a man, i couldnt imagine a better feeling.

Yeah society isnt going in the direction i would choose, but at the end of the day, the vast majority of kids are good ones and we will be just fine. No different than saying everyone who rides a motorbike is in a gang, or who skateboards is a delinquent....the bad few get all the attention. The VAST majority of kids arent the extreme ones that are so prevalent right now in the media.

[bigskinner]

Todays youth , heres the problem , 70% of them come from single parent familys , where did that come from , people moving in with each other after a night of weed and booze , no birth pills taken , out pops a kid , man gets ****ed off , hes still in school , no money no responsibility he disappears , now the young woman is on her own , no job , no money , nothing , the kid runs wild , and steals , breaks into homes , robs the 7/11s .
This is the scenario we have in society today about 70% or higher.
No discipline on thease kids , no spankings , parents cant be botherd , leave the kid alone , hes cute , house a mess , untrained dogs running all over or cats , place stinks.
Look in KJIJI under help needed , all of the ads are from young single women with 2 or more kids ,looking for money.
Now back in the 50tys , we hardly seen this , we were all married familys , and we spanked our kids , l myself had the spanking of my life , when l ran out between parked cars at 4 years old and was just about killed by a car , my mother spanked me with a paint stick till l almost bled , but l never did that again , she saved my life .
Hippie children running around to day , just don't give a damn , don't believe in marriage , or hitting kids , that's why crime is rampad , society is pretty much hooped

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

There are worse things than dying. If you want to talk about infant mortality ., you may want to include all those who are flushed down the drain intentionally
Of course tech advances in medicine are amazing. No one ever said everything was better in the good old days, but many things were. Can your kids play out in the street or ride their bike to the community pool a couple miles away? Were there drugs every where?

I grew up in the city, and saw or heard of very little violent crime,
Now I know at least a dozen victims of it. How was your neighbourhood.

When I was 13 years old I had a job at the local pharmacy. I delivered prescription drugs on my bike. Try that today.

There is no more accountability for actions, 30-40 years ago the cops would adjust you for stupid things, which was good, I got adjusted, smartened up...then dad would adjust if he found out the cops or teacher etc had to adjust you as then you were embarrassing the family name and that was a no no.
Everything was earned, now it seems to be a given, fatty gets a medal for effort but they soon learn that it's the way it is so called the norm so why really try...fortunately the majority still get it and go out and get it but the loser numbers are creeping up....

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by bigskinner

Todays youth , heres the problem , 70% of them come from single parent familys , where did that come from , people moving in with each other after a night of weed and booze , no birth pills taken , out pops a kid , man gets ****ed off , hes still in school , no money no responsibility he disappears , now the young woman is on her own , no job , no money , nothing , the kid runs wild , and steals , breaks into homes , robs the 7/11s .
This is the scenario we have in society today about 70% or higher.
No discipline on thease kids , no spankings , parents cant be botherd , leave the kid alone , hes cute , house a mess , untrained dogs running all over or cats , place stinks.
Look in KJIJI under help needed , all of the ads are from young single women with 2 or more kids ,looking for money.
Now back in the 50tys , we hardly seen this , we were all married familys , and we spanked our kids , l myself had the spanking of my life , when l ran out between parked cars at 4 years old and was just about killed by a car , my mother spanked me with a paint stick till l almost bled , but l never did that again , she saved my life .
Hippie children running around to day , just don't give a damn , don't believe in marriage , or hitting kids , that's why crime is rampad , society is pretty much hooped

I'm curious where you got your information? What I found according to the US census in 2011 single parents are raising 26% of children below the age of 21. Long way from 70. The vast majority of which come from divorces.
Society has been hooped time and again according to the old timers but it manages to pull through. They just can't adjust to change. Look at the 60s lol

That said I agree with you about the lack of discipline. I look back on having the tar beat out of me and wonder if that why my generation doesn't hit their kids so much. Mine have been spanked. Not often. It means something it's not the go to. They're good kids, my oldest has 6 citizenship awards. I'm proud of them and how they conduct themselves and see the world. Some of their friends though ... different story.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Wow, you have your perspective on your life, seems others have been a bad influence as well on you, so many divorces, negative impact on all involved...parents should live for thier kids, put the effort and time in, see them grow up to mature, caring adults this is all the greatness of being a parent, the good times, the bad times, learning from them and persevering what life throws at you, after they move out and find there way you as a parent have the great feeling that they will be ok and they do come home and when they do you can see the thank you mom/dad In thier eyes.
I think we are good to go with the children that will be adults soon, more good ones than bad, way more gadget wavy then me and hey that's ok too.

Maybe importance isn't the right word for it. Today it seems parents are scared to death that anything will happen to their kid - and when things do happen like injury, many have no idea what to do. I find it disheartening to see so few kids and teens out and about - it's to the point that one notices it now. It's weird. Where are the rest? In the basement playing video games?

A friend has a 10 year old kid, loves gaming, that's all he wants to do. All the toys he has, quad never used. I would have rode the wheels off it. Yet, that kid has every new game and console when they hit the market. Maybe I just don't get it. Parents get frustrated cause all he does it sit in the room and play games - yet they enable him. The kid has the control to do what he wants.

I look at our life growing up, we were gone from sun up to sundown - sometimes later. Full freedom - get hurt, we figured out how to patch it up and carry on. We had real friendships, knocked on the doors looking for our friends - or rode our bikes around town, didn't take long to find them. We didn't get away with everything cause the community as a whole watched out for us. If someone spotted me doing something stupid, you can be sure my parents got a phone call - and trouble was waiting at home. It seems like today - if the community is keeping an eye out, they are perverts. So many parents are "not my kid", my precious wouldn't do that.

Something like 40 percent of marriage ends in divorce? Like Bill Burr said, you're standing in a plane with a parachute on - 40% of them won't open, I'm not jumping.

[wags]

Originally Posted by bigskinner

Todays youth , heres the problem , 70% of them come from single parent familys , where did that come from , people moving in with each other after a night of weed and booze , no birth pills taken , out pops a kid , man gets ****ed off , hes still in school , no money no responsibility he disappears , now the young woman is on her own , no job , no money , nothing , the kid runs wild , and steals , breaks into homes , robs the 7/11s .
This is the scenario we have in society today about 70% or higher.
No discipline on thease kids , no spankings , parents cant be botherd , leave the kid alone , hes cute , house a mess , untrained dogs running all over or cats , place stinks.
Look in KJIJI under help needed , all of the ads are from young single women with 2 or more kids ,looking for money.
Now back in the 50tys , we hardly seen this , we were all married familys , and we spanked our kids , l myself had the spanking of my life , when l ran out between parked cars at 4 years old and was just about killed by a car , my mother spanked me with a paint stick till l almost bled , but l never did that again , she saved my life .
Hippie children running around to day , just don't give a damn , don't believe in marriage , or hitting kids , that's why crime is rampad , society is pretty much hooped

wwwhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaa????????????

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Maybe importance isn't the right word for it. Today it seems parents are scared to death that anything will happen to their kid - and when things do happen like injury, many have no idea what to do. I find it disheartening to see so few kids and teens out and about - it's to the point that one notices it now. It's weird. Where are the rest? In the basement playing video games?

A friend has a 10 year old kid, loves gaming, that's all he wants to do. All the toys he has, quad never used. I would have rode the wheels off it. Yet, that kid has every new game and console when they hit the market. Maybe I just don't get it. Parents get frustrated cause all he does it sit in the room and play games - yet they enable him. The kid has the control to do what he wants.

I look at our life growing up, we were gone from sun up to sundown - sometimes later. Full freedom - get hurt, we figured out how to patch it up and carry on. We had real friendships, knocked on the doors looking for our friends - or rode our bikes around town, didn't take long to find them. We didn't get away with everything cause the community as a whole watched out for us. If someone spotted me doing something stupid, you can be sure my parents got a phone call - and trouble was waiting at home. It seems like today - if the community is keeping an eye out, they are perverts. So many parents are "not my kid", my precious wouldn't do that.

Something like 40 percent of marriage ends in divorce? Like Bill Burr said, you're standing in a plane with a parachute on - 40% of them won't open, I'm not jumping.

Judging by how much time you spend online here I'd bet if you were a 10 year old today you'd be a gamer as well. They're built for teenage boys and it's a billion dollar industry. They know what they're doing.

It has nothing to do with kids. Kids want fun. No different than kids in the 40s. The parents of today need to limit screen time and show them other interests.

Our town has the highest number of kids in minor ball it's ever had. Year before last was the highest number of kids ever playing hockey. Plus a lot of them drive to neighboring towns for other sports not available here.

Maybe life is just better in a small town? Maybe we are all better parents? I doubt it very much. Not all kids love sports. Not every kid loves the outdoors but they all will get involved in something given a chance.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by fitzy

Judging by how much time you spend online here I'd bet if you were a 10 year old today you'd be a gamer as well. They're built for teenage boys and it's a billion dollar industry. They know what they're doing.

It has nothing to do with kids. Kids want fun. No different than kids in the 40s. The parents of today need to limit screen time and show them other interests.

Our town has the highest number of kids in minor ball it's ever had. Year before last was the highest number of kids ever playing hockey. Plus a lot of them drive to neighboring towns for other sports not available here.

Maybe life is just better in a small town? Maybe we are all better parents? I doubt it very much. Not all kids love sports. Not every kid loves the outdoors but they all will get involved in something given a chance.

Life in small towns is different, I will give you that.

But if I rewind 30+ years, lived in Toronto for a couple of years. It was the same as the small town I grew up in. We didn't stop, street hockey, biking around, out and about, just more to explore in the big city. Head north camping, we had no restrictions, go have fun, get dirty, it all washes off.

Technology is the ruination. Kids today have their social life in the palm of their hands, there is a reason it's called social media. Unfortunately, parents are supposed to lead by example - and many are worse than the kids. They can reach out at any moment to countries around the world - we couldn't. I know of many relationships that went poof because of technology - the ability to talk to anyone anywhere in the world at any given moment. To figure out that there is life beyond what they have - that it doesn't need to be this way. People can read that the grass is greener - whether it is or not is a different story, find out the hard way.

How many people are frustrated with technology and what it does to the family unit?

I'm tired of technology, hate the fact that so many are addicted to it. The ex couldn't figure that out, couldn't live without her phone, slept with it under her pillow, constant. Nothing more aggravating to me than being woken up at 3 am and she's texting - she is actually interrupting a good nights sleep to text someone back. If my phone rings at 3 am, the world better be on fire or someone better be dying. She just couldn't figure out that a 2 minute phone call was easier than a 1/2 hour text session and she'd be texting 5 people at a time. There's the door, pack your things - get out.

I can do without technology, cell phone is a necessity, not a need, and it's not my life. There's a 40 inch TV in my living room, hasn't been turned on in years, no time for the crap they put on TV. Yeah, there's days that i'm online a little more - but there are days that I don't need to touch it. I love watching documentaries, love reading up on history - curl up with a good shot of whisky, relax and learn something.

Maybe I'm just full of it, more old fashioned than I think. Don't know anymore.

[metalwrench]

I used to be like that when I was a kid. Mostly staying indoors playing on the computer or handheld gaming device or whatever. If some friends were over or if I went to their place we would all play some games on the console or PC. Now while in excess it's a bad thing but I don't have any regrets because I made a lot of great memories and introduced me to many great classics that I revisit every now and then. At the same time I do regret not having been out more often.

Now I'm in my 20's and starting to get into the outdoors more often for the first time. Camping, fishing, and hiking are all in the works for this summer and I'm pretty excited for that. It's a feeling I haven't felt for a while, sort of like a kid trying a new game everyone's been raving about. I think a nice balance can be made to juggle games and outdoor activities but the kid's gotta have some passion/interest for it in my opinion.

[MAC]

Originally Posted by 300magman

Anyone who has kids that dont think they are the most important thing in their life sure are missing out on the reason we have been put on this planet. Thats not to say you coddle them and tell them they are the best at everything they ever do, etc, but at the end of the day the purpose of our lives is to reproduce, at the simplest of levels, that is why we are here. And then to do our best ensure that those offspring grow up and continue the survival of the species.

In my opinion, if you have children and they arent the most important thing in your life, you need to have a long, hard look at your life and figure out why. And those that don't have kids have as much of a right to make assumptions about being a parent as I do about being an astronaut. Parenting is by far the greatest thing I have done....its not always easy, but everyday i watch my boy grow into more of a man, i couldnt imagine a better feeling.

Yeah society isnt going in the direction i would choose, but at the end of the day, the vast majority of kids are good ones and we will be just fine. No different than saying everyone who rides a motorbike is in a gang, or who skateboards is a delinquent....the bad few get all the attention. The VAST majority of kids arent the extreme ones that are so prevalent right now in the media.

X2

I considered myself a greedy sportsman. I preferred to hunt and fish alone.
Enjoyed time with others but still looked forward to time alone to recharge.
Fast forward to spending time with my son. Easily my best and favorite hunting/fishing partner. I wondered what or how I would feel when he took his first animal. I looked forward to it and wanted it for him. We worked so hard at reloading together, shooting and hiking. His first year I partnered him on a mulie doe draw. He took it on our first outing. I cannot explain how grand it was. Far better than I imagined. Out of this world proud and happy for him.
That one experience alone makes silverdoctors 40 % divorce rate worth the chance and you still have a lifetime partner.
My daughter does not like to hunt or fish anymore but she loves archery and hiking, and I try to do this with her as much as we can. I am very proud of her skill and how much she likes the outdoors. She will be a very strong
and skilled woman. She knows how to check fluids, change a flat tire,build a fire and to help herself if need be. She is 14. Incredibly proud of both kids.
Raising my kids is not a job or chore. Its my honor to do so.
MAC

[urban rednek]

Scenario, Hunting:
1950's- Hunter harvests a black bear with a homemade spear during a legal hunt. Takes a few photos for posterity. His story gets covered by a hunting publication of the day. Although there is some grumbling skepticism of the story, he is recognized as a fellow hunter and decent representative of our sport.

Today- Hunter harvests a black bear with a homemade spear during a legal hunt. Films the entire hunt and uploads a video for all to see. Business associates, friends and fellow hunters offer kudos and respect for the hunt, as well as his choice to harvest a dangerous game animal with a primitive weapon.
Then some Disneyfied Princess from another country takes offense to the video and mobilizes the online snowflakes to deal with this horrendous situation. Their outrage is palpable, the online version of an SJW dogpile ensues. It quickly becomes the hunting version of an international incident. Local, provincial, federal, and international government representatives speak out against the atrocity and demand justice. Business associates quickly withdraw their support and local hunting associations publicly denounce the hunt and the hunter.

A lot of people in our socially engineered, modern society can't see the forest for the trees, and they certainly don't learn from history.