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11-27-2014, 11:38 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 4
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THERMAL IMAGING-optics
Anyone have advice on these cool devices? Wondering if I'd be able to use a thermal monocular to scout for animals in staging a hunt early sunrise? Cabelos has monocular- FLIR PS32. Range of 500 yrds. Wondering if worth while to purchase..pricey.
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11-27-2014, 11:56 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: airdrie
Posts: 5,211
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don't know how good they are military spec ones are way better nvg goggles are 23000
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LIFE IS TOUGH.....TOUGHER IF YOU'RE STUPID.-------------------“Women have the right to work wherever they want, as long as they have the dinner ready when you get home”
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11-27-2014, 12:32 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Stony Plain
Posts: 6,433
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Is this fair chase?
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11-27-2014, 12:44 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Fort McMurray
Posts: 416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_W
Is this fair chase?
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I have the same question...I use IR cameras at work quite a bit, and often thought about the ethics of using one on a hunt...
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11-27-2014, 01:13 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: 406
Posts: 1,164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_W
Is this fair chase?
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No. Not at all. Not fair chase, not ethical, and hopefully any F&W officer would charge somebody for using a light, whether or not the charge sticks. At least the person using it will have to pay for a lawyer.
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11-27-2014, 04:23 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lacombe.
Posts: 2,932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasteland.soldier
No. Not at all. Not fair chase, not ethical, and hopefully any F&W officer would charge somebody for using a light, whether or not the charge sticks. At least the person using it will have to pay for a lawyer.
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Well said.
+1
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11-27-2014, 04:44 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Nelson BC
Posts: 2,031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_W
Is this fair chase?
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How is this different to bugling in the dark (which I do often) to see if here are any elk around. How about scouting out of season?
There are specific activities that one is not allowed to do within a certain period of time (such as flying), but night scouting as far as I am aware is not one of them.
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11-27-2014, 05:11 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydro1
Well said.
+1
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Yup
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11-27-2014, 05:13 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: 406
Posts: 1,164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nelsonob1
How is this different to bugling in the dark (which I do often) to see if here are any elk around. How about scouting out of season?
There are specific activities that one is not allowed to do within a certain period of time (such as flying), but night scouting as far as I am aware is not one of them.
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Seriously? "How is this different from bugling"?
You understand that OP is talking about using heat sensing night vision to locate animals in the dark before setting off after them, right?
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11-27-2014, 05:15 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 44,842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasteland.soldier
No. Not at all. Not fair chase, not ethical, and hopefully any F&W officer would charge somebody for using a light, whether or not the charge sticks. At least the person using it will have to pay for a lawyer.
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I don't consider it fair chase, but good luck charging someone with using a light if they aren't using a light. Have you ever heard of malicious prosecution?
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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11-27-2014, 05:17 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bazeau County East side
Posts: 4,166
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Would they also work during the day?
Thinking of thick bush and the original Predator movie.Lol.
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11-27-2014, 05:18 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Idaho, USA
Posts: 173
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Why wouldn't it be fair chase? All you're doing is looking. Do you guys use binoculars? Spotting scopes?
Do you walk in, in the dark? When you turkey hunt, do you call the evening before to see where they're roosted, or in the dark the morning of the hunt to locate them?
I have that Flir. I can tell you what I've used it for so far - looking for the grizzly we knew was in our elk hunting area, during archery season, as we walked in, in the dark. Unless the device is listed as illegal in your regs, I wouldn't let anyone tell you it isn't fair chase.
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11-27-2014, 05:23 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Nelson BC
Posts: 2,031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasteland.soldier
Seriously? "How is this different from bugling"?
You understand that OP is talking about using heat sensing night vision to locate animals in the dark before setting off after them, right?
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I meant in the legal sense. I assumed the AO was asking whether it would be legal versus whether you or I think it is right.
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11-27-2014, 05:31 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Idaho, USA
Posts: 173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasteland.soldier
Seriously? "How is this different from bugling"?
You understand that OP is talking about using heat sensing night vision to locate animals in the dark before setting off after them, right?
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That picture proves nothing as that image can be taken during the day with that same device.
If your regs do not allow it, don't use it. If they do, use away.
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11-27-2014, 07:27 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Stony Plain
Posts: 6,433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nelsonob1
How is this different to bugling in the dark (which I do often) to see if here are any elk around. How about scouting out of season?
There are specific activities that one is not allowed to do within a certain period of time (such as flying), but night scouting as far as I am aware is not one of them.
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FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.
Night vision I would say is a improper advantage.
Knowing exactly where animals are under the cover of darkness can give you an unfair advantage in know how to approach/ ambush said animals.
Also say I have 10 quarters of land to hunt spread out over a few miles if I can just drive around and check fields for if there are any animals or target spieces or trophy class a couple hour before sunrise and choose what field and how to approach it is an extreme advantage and a lot different then bugling while walking in the dark.
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11-27-2014, 07:50 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Nelson BC
Posts: 2,031
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The question was whether he can do it, not whether you think it is ethical.
I mean no personal insult but I get tired of the endless debate (and I have added to it) of whether someone's personal preference to how they kill something is better than another persons.
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11-27-2014, 07:54 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis22
Anyone have advice on these cool devices? Wondering if I'd be able to use a thermal monocular to scout for animals in staging a hunt early sunrise? Cabelos has monocular- FLIR PS32. Range of 500 yrds. Wondering if worth while to purchase..pricey.
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You mean CABELAS has FLIR PS32 for $500??
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11-27-2014, 08:20 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Stony Plain
Posts: 6,433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nelsonob1
The question was whether he can do it, not whether you think it is ethical.
I mean no personal insult but I get tired of the endless debate (and I have added to it) of whether someone's personal preference to how they kill something is better than another persons.
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All I posted what "is that fair chase?"
Let's ask a warden on this then .... I still say it's illegal.... Might as well just drive around and use a spotlight to see what's in the fields then.
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11-27-2014, 08:23 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 212
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Trail Cameras (also capable of night vision), long range rifles, HD spotting scopes, scent blocker, Scent attractants, baiting (only legal in some cases), calls all come to mind
Its all personal opinion honestly. If you look at the list above, you could argue that they all take away from fair chase. As technology improves, so will the edge hunters have.
Stay legal, focus on and enjoy the hunt not just the kill and trophy, and make sure you find true fullfillment in any harvest you achieve
If someone has the funds and means for night vision, but still maintains a real hunt and find fullfillmentt in this, then I guess all the power to them.
Don't ever see me hitting that stage.
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11-27-2014, 08:34 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lacombe.
Posts: 2,932
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The issue I have is that binoulars are used to inhance what we can already see its just magnified. Same with Scopes, the unfair advantage come imo when you can use thermal optics and see through the trees, and see whats on the other side of the thick bushes.ect.
Trail cameras just tell you whats in the area before the hunt. Thermal imaging gives you an unfair advantage during the hunt.
All jmho.
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11-27-2014, 08:35 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Calgary
Posts: 594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasteland.soldier
Seriously? "How is this different from bugling"?
You understand that OP is talking about using heat sensing night vision to locate animals in the dark before setting off after them, right?
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Cool picture! After reading the article in Montana about the study where they used GPS tracking to follow hunters and grizzly bears, I would be tempted to use thermal imaging to check the woods for grizz as I hike in the dark.
__________________
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Vegetarian is a latin word meaning "poor hunter".
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11-27-2014, 08:42 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: On an agitated planet
Posts: 665
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Using a scoped gun is not fair chase to start with, IMO.
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I like the smell of Retumbo in the morning.
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11-27-2014, 09:06 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 44,842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredo
Using a scoped gun is not fair chase to start with, IMO.
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So using a more precise sighting device to help insure a quick clean kill is not fair chase?
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
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11-27-2014, 09:13 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,713
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Whether it is legal or not, it is certainly not fair chase and should be illegal. As technology increases the ease which we can harvest game, it comes with the cost of reduced opportunity for all hunters. Sometimes hunters need to stop and do what is right rather than what is "legal" for the moment, until regulations have the chance to catch up imo.
The B&C club finds it unethical. From their entry requirements.
For the purpose of entry into the Boone and Crockett Club’s® records, North American big game harvested by the use of the following methods or under the following conditions are ineligible:
I. Spotting or herding game from the air, followed by landing in its vicinity for the purpose of pursuit and shooting;
II. Herding or chasing with the aid of any motorized equipment;
III. Use of electronic communication devices to guide hunters to game, artificial lighting, electronic light intensifying devices (night vision optics), sights with built-in electronic range-finding capabilities, thermal imaging equipment, electronic game calls or cameras/timers/motion tracking devices that transmit images and other information to the hunter;
IV. Confined by artificial barriers, including escape-proof fenced enclosures;
V. Transplanted for the purpose of commercial shooting;
VI. By the use of traps or pharmaceuticals;
VII. While swimming, helpless in deep snow, or helpless in any other natural or artificial medium;
VIII. On another hunter’s license;
IX. Not in full compliance with the game laws or regulations of the federal government or of any state, province, territory, or tribal council on reservations or tribal lands;
__________________
There are some who can live without wild things, and some who cannot. Aldo Leopold
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11-27-2014, 09:14 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Calgary
Posts: 701
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I'm sorry if I missed it, but are we at war with the animals now?
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11-27-2014, 09:23 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Okotoks , Alberta
Posts: 326
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Thermal imaging
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkster
Trail Cameras (also capable of night vision), long range rifles, HD spotting scopes, scent blocker, Scent attractants, baiting (only legal in some cases), calls all come to mind
Its all personal opinion honestly. If you look at the list above, you could argue that they all take away from fair chase. As technology improves, so will the edge hunters have.
Stay legal, focus on and enjoy the hunt not just the kill and trophy, and make sure you find true fullfillment in any harvest you achieve
If someone has the funds and means for night vision, but still maintains a real hunt and find fullfillmentt in this, then I guess all the power to them.
Don't ever see me hitting that stage.
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Well put.
There is new technology out each year that can make hunting easier. How about a rifle scope with built in range finder. Calibrated range finding recticles. Night vision game cameras that text you the picture the minute it is taken. Drones
My point is technology improves everyday and all of it gives you an advantage. If you chose to use it, it's your personal choice. As long as your with in the letter of the law, no foul. Since the camera can't be used to assist shooting in the dark, it's just another tool. Plus it has a pile of other cool uses. Looking for heat loss around the house. Hot spots in an electrical breaker panel, etc etc.
Expensive but a very trick piece of gear!
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Proud member of PETA
People Eating Tasty Animals
Wild Sheep Foundation of Alberta
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11-27-2014, 09:25 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twobucks
I'm sorry if I missed it, but are we at war with the animals now?
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Many "hunters" certainly are.
__________________
There are some who can live without wild things, and some who cannot. Aldo Leopold
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11-27-2014, 10:40 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
So using a more precise sighting device to help insure a quick clean kill is not fair chase?
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More ethical and fair chase!
Makes you wonder why people are so anti crossbow eh? More precise sighting device and less room for user error.
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11-27-2014, 10:59 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Nelson BC
Posts: 2,031
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Fair chase? Like throwing a lead projectile at 3000fps from 500 yards away with a sub-moa rifle with the aid of a bds scope, rangefinder and tripod? or fair chase like sharpening a stick and running through the forest butt naked and bare footed in the snow?
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11-28-2014, 12:19 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,117
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Fair chase
Quote:
Originally Posted by nelsonob1
Fair chase? Like throwing a lead projectile at 3000fps from 500 yards away with a sub-moa rifle with the aid of a bds scope, rangefinder and tripod? or fair chase like sharpening a stick and running through the forest butt naked and bare footed in the snow?
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Makes a good point. With the advance of modern equipment, I think fair chase is almost limited to anything that's not in a high fence pen. Would be cool to try out, likely get the crowd split going on endlessly about it for many pages though.
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