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  #31  
Old 08-13-2019, 06:39 AM
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Do a lot of your own research based on statistics and facts about your own son and the cartridges you are interested in, completely disregard statements like ďa deer doesn't know the difference between a 30 caliber and a 243Ē this person doesn't know that!! Or the ole ď243 etc will kill anything in North America with a well placed shot and a well made bulletĒ what kind of a statement is that? A .22 will do that. What if its not a well placed shot, that happens, would a different cartridge choice improve animal harvest? Only you can make that choice. It only matters to you what ethical values you instil in a young hunter and that needs to be measured against what recoil can be handled by him. Involve him in the research. Vague statements like mentioned above are nothing more than blowing smoke for justification through conjecture. BTW, i would look at a 30-30 with a great recoil pad. Iím sure a young man wont shoot past that cartridges capability and when he does and moves in a different direction, heck everyone needs a 30-30 in the safe.
Have you bought any guns for youth?

Have you killed any big game with a 243?
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  #32  
Old 08-13-2019, 07:54 AM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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A lot depends on the individual youth. Some take to shooting more readily than others. The worst thing you can do is start them with a rifle that doesn't fit or a cartridge that is too big. It's difficult to teach rifle mounting and hold, trigger control, recoil management etc without the proper fit. Excessive recoil will render it all a waste if recoil proves to be too much.
Start with a .22 and work up. The .20 cals are almost perfect for most beginners, then up to .243 or 6mm as they progress. The basics can't be properly learned in one or two range sessions. An uncomfortable first shot will last almost forever.
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  #33  
Old 08-13-2019, 07:59 AM
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257 Roberts started off lots of new shooters with this gun taking everything from mice to Moose
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  #34  
Old 08-13-2019, 08:03 AM
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In my experience, weight matters far more than LOP. We fret about LOP so much with youth rifles and most canít hold a rifle off hand anyway. Iíve had several youth (ages 8-14) that have never shot rifles use my 223 with a standard LOP. Prone or sitting they can repeatedly hit targets out to 500 yds with zero problems.

My favourite youth hunting rifle is the Kimber Montana.
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  #35  
Old 08-13-2019, 09:33 AM
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7mm-08 Rem in a single shot severed both of my children well when they started out. 12-1/2Ē LOP, 22Ē bbl.
I reloaded 130 gr Speerís at around 2500 FPS, but the managed recoil 140ís would do well if you are a factory ammo user.
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  #36  
Old 08-13-2019, 09:53 AM
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I spent a fair bit of energy trying to figure out the best chambering for my kids to shoot once they’re old enough to hunt and I settled on the 7mm08 for several reasons. It’s fairly light kicking, which was a must for the criteria I was trying to meet but it’s also easy to find ammo for, it’s chambered in short action rifles, my experience is that it’s been easy to work up accurate loads for and it’s very versatile. I wanted something that would be good for deer hunting but would also be able to be used on elk and moose. The last couple years I’ve hunted exclusively with the 7mm08 and used it to take a black bear and a large cow elk and It performed great. Shooting 140gr trophy bonded tipped bullets I was very happy with the results. So much so that I’m in no hurry to return to my regular rifle in 300wsm as I feel confident in taking the 7mm after anything I’m hunting for. If the plan is just to hunt deer sized game then by all means go with a .243 but I think there’s a lot to be said for getting youngsters started with a round they can be confident in taking into any hunt they may go on.
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  #37  
Old 08-13-2019, 01:20 PM
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7mm-08 Rem in a single shot severed both of my children well when they started out. 12-1/2Ē LOP, 22Ē bbl.
I reloaded 130 gr Speerís at around 2500 FPS, but the managed recoil 140ís would do well if you are a factory ammo user.
Served!

Damned fat fingers!!!!!
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  #38  
Old 08-13-2019, 01:52 PM
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Hello fellow outdoorsmen. My oldest son is turning 12 in October and is looking forward to hunting this year. I was introduced to hunting as a young adult so I don't have much experience hunting as a youth. I am looking for advice on a caliber that my 12 year old son can shoot that won't throttle him with recoil but will be suitable for several years that he can still shoot down the road. Any input would be helpful. I was thinking of a 7 mm-08 or a 25-06. Thoughts?
What do you want to shoot with it? Do you handload? Are you looking at buying a "new" rifle or passing down/lending one you currently have? What kind of range do you usually shoot game at? And how big and strong is your kid?

I could throw out a lot of generalities that might work, but without knowing a little more it's hard to tailor something that would be "just right".

A shorter stock that fits, as well as a good recoil pad makes a huge difference on the perceived recoil. And something with a lot of muzzle blast, like a high pressure cartridge, out of a short barrel, or muzzle brakes, will contribute to a hard to cure flinch.
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  #39  
Old 08-13-2019, 07:37 PM
Xbolt7mm Xbolt7mm is offline
 
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Have you bought any guns for youth?

Have you killed any big game with a 243?
Yup, yup
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  #40  
Old 08-14-2019, 07:00 AM
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Interesting. Iím surprised that someone who says the 243 is no good would recommend the 30-30. Iím also surprised that you would say the 22LR is the same as the 243 with similar kinds of bullet selection.
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  #41  
Old 08-14-2019, 08:29 AM
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I modified the stock on a Tikka T3 in 260 rem for Brendan. Did up some 85 grain Sierra's for target and coyote hunting, but I have Accubonds ready for deer season. Brendan turns 12 on Nov. 11th and he is gnawing at the bit to be on point this year.
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  #42  
Old 08-14-2019, 01:36 PM
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I went in bit of a different direction. I had my buddy double gun build a 7rem mag for my daughter. Remington 700 stainless sps. We added a very good slim in line break and shortened the barrel to 24". Recoil is on par with a 243 yet still has the downrange energy for elk or what ever she pursues as she gets older. My kids aren't aloud to shoot without hearing protection hunting or not, so the break is a non issue. (great for the range) When it came time to hunt we threaded the break off and put the thread protector cap on Accidentally(I was shooting the week before and checking accuracy with break on, then off) . She got her first buck on her 12th birthday and her first black bear this spring with it with zero recoil sensitivity issues. Shes going to be 13 this November and Im sure she will carry this rifle for a while.
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  #43  
Old 08-14-2019, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm View Post
Do a lot of your own research based on statistics and facts about your own son and the cartridges you are interested in, completely disregard statements like ďa deer doesn't know the difference between a 30 caliber and a 243Ē this person doesn't know that!! Or the ole ď243 etc will kill anything in North America with a well placed shot and a well made bulletĒ what kind of a statement is that? A .22 will do that. What if its not a well placed shot, that happens, would a different cartridge choice improve animal harvest? Only you can make that choice. It only matters to you what ethical values you instil in a young hunter and that needs to be measured against what recoil can be handled by him. Involve him in the research. Vague statements like mentioned above are nothing more than blowing smoke for justification through conjecture. BTW, i would look at a 30-30 with a great recoil pad. Iím sure a young man wont shoot past that cartridges capability and when he does and moves in a different direction, heck everyone needs a 30-30 in the safe.
And you know why magnums were made right!
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  #44  
Old 08-14-2019, 08:50 PM
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And you know why magnums were made right!
????


For the same reason that Harley Davidson puts their badge on the side of pickup trucks......??
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  #45  
Old 08-14-2019, 09:36 PM
Xbolt7mm Xbolt7mm is offline
 
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Interesting. Iím surprised that someone who says the 243 is no good would recommend the 30-30. Iím also surprised that you would say the 22LR is the same as the 243 with similar kinds of bullet selection.
Ya, ya Charlie, rip it apart, but read it and understand it first, where did i say the 243 is no good? I quoted another post and never said a .22 is the same as a 243, I said with a well placed shot and a good bullet. Where did i write LR? Did you read the same thread as me, are you ok...mixing gun powder and Pepsi maybe. Charlie, bud ya gotta read it twice before you click send bud. I had a 243 and a 30-30 when I was 12, that 180 grain 30 cal 30-30 was more accurate than me for more than a couple years and could handle more yardage than me as well. Plus the recoil didnt bother me and it was a 30 cal. And every McLeodís hardware store carried them, but pretty limited on the 243 but obviously thats different now. Like you said earlier ďin my opinionĒ everyone has one Charlie, just cuz its different than yours dont make it wrong, jus different than yours is all. I happen to think if the kid cant reach the trigger because the stock is too long for him is worse than the gun being a lb heavier, but, hey the world is full of lots of different crayons, letís have a beer.

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  #46  
Old 08-14-2019, 09:37 PM
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And you know why magnums were made right!
10-4 bud and i use them but the kids cant, there is even a difference of opinion on what defines a magnum. To some its gotta be belted to others is just a bigger cartridge of a same caliber. I dont call a 28 nosler a magnum but others may. ďIn my opinionĒ will be along soon to enlighten us. But really, I do hope the OP gets what he is looking for be it a 458 or a 6mm but its his call and I really hope it works out for the kid.

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  #47  
Old 08-15-2019, 04:43 AM
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10-4 bud and i use them but the kids cant, there is even a difference of opinion on what defines a magnum. To some its gotta be belted to others is just a bigger cartridge of a same caliber. I dont call a 28 nosler a magnum but others may. ďIn my opinionĒ will be along soon to enlighten us. But really, I do hope the OP gets what he is looking for be it a 458 or a 6mm but its his call and I really hope it works out for the kid.
You don't have to be a proficient marksman when you use a magnum.
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  #48  
Old 08-15-2019, 04:58 AM
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7-08....he will always have it and it will take any game animal.....he may out grow it by being young and mocho and it might collect dust but always good to have another rifle that is reliable etc....later on he will realize tha 7-08 is just as capeable and actually easy to shoot and easy on recoil....my son got one way back when....6'2" etc and still totes the 7-08.....moose, mule,whities,yotes etc...yup with the little 7-08.....tikka,Burris 3-9x40....not too expensive but dam reliable, accurate...etc...
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  #49  
Old 08-15-2019, 05:01 AM
Xbolt7mm Xbolt7mm is offline
 
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You don't have to be a proficient marksman when you use a magnum.
Cmon......why didnt you use the ole
Thatís all that statement is trying to do
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  #50  
Old 08-15-2019, 06:46 AM
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Ya, ya Charlie, rip it apart, but read it and understand it first, where did i say the 243 is no good? I quoted another post and never said a .22 is the same as a 243, I said with a well placed shot and a good bullet. Where did i write LR? Did you read the same thread as me, are you ok...mixing gun powder and Pepsi maybe. Charlie, bud ya gotta read it twice before you click send bud. I had a 243 and a 30-30 when I was 12, that 180 grain 30 cal 30-30 was more accurate than me for more than a couple years and could handle more yardage than me as well. Plus the recoil didnt bother me and it was a 30 cal. And every McLeodís hardware store carried them, but pretty limited on the 243 but obviously thats different now. Like you said earlier ďin my opinionĒ everyone has one Charlie, just cuz its different than yours dont make it wrong, jus different than yours is all. I happen to think if the kid cant reach the trigger because the stock is too long for him is worse than the gun being a lb heavier, but, hey the world is full of lots of different crayons, letís have a beer.
Lol, touchť
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  #51  
Old 08-15-2019, 06:47 AM
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You don't have to be a proficient marksman when you use a magnum.
Since itís thread on youth, why did you bring up the magnum, I canít see where else anyone brought it up? I do believe a 243 comes in a magnum as well. But once again itís a youth thread so I think a 30-30 is a fine choice, 7mm-08 as well, Iím on the fence with the 243 for the same reason others are for larger game, just as others think itís fine, itís not an attack on anyoneís core beliefs, I just donít like the cartridge is all, I think a 25 should be the smallest legal caliber being fully aware center fire .22 are legal other places but thatís not the debate right now. I would find a nice used marlin 30-30 with a scope on it and practice away, good luck to the OP

Last edited by Jimm; 08-15-2019 at 06:59 AM.
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  #52  
Old 08-15-2019, 06:48 AM
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Lots of good info here for you.
pay no heed to the pizzing matches that always seem to find their ways into these threads

The time tested and proven 6.5x55...30-30, 243 and the 7-08 are all great choices. Lots of factory ammo out there for all those calibers, and if you're so inclined to look for a good used one, you won't have to break the bank to find one.

(ps...D284....Congrats..Very Very nice !!!)
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  #53  
Old 08-15-2019, 06:58 AM
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Started with a 30-06, still shoot a 30-06, when you kids get that first buck fever adrenaline kick they won't even notice.
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  #54  
Old 08-15-2019, 07:00 AM
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You don't have to be a proficient marksman when you use a magnum.
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Originally Posted by lastlatvian View Post
Started with a 30-06, still shoot a 30-06, when you kids get that first buck fever adrenaline kick they won't even notice.
This is very true but you do notice it when you practice
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  #55  
Old 08-15-2019, 07:02 AM
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This is very true but you do notice it when you practice
Most dads donít practice. Why would the kids?
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  #56  
Old 08-15-2019, 07:08 AM
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Most dads donít practice. Why would the kids?
Not sure if itís just sarcasm in general or directed at me but, I know you practice and Iím sure you try to teach kids to shoot based on your previous posts which means they practice, I practice as do many others based on the load development threads. Have a cup of coffee and relax a bit, there ainít no fight here.
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  #57  
Old 08-15-2019, 07:15 AM
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Not sure if itís just sarcasm in general or directed at me but, I know you practice and Iím sure you try to teach kids to shoot based on your previous posts which means they practice, I practice as do many others based on the load development threads. Have a cup of coffee and relax a bit, there ainít no fight here.
The comment has nothing to do with you.
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  #58  
Old 08-15-2019, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm View Post
Do a lot of your own research based on statistics and facts about your own son and the cartridges you are interested in, completely disregard statements like ďa deer doesn't know the difference between a 30 caliber and a 243Ē this person doesn't know that!! Or the ole ď243 etc will kill anything in North America with a well placed shot and a well made bulletĒ what kind of a statement is that? A .22 will do that. What if its not a well placed shot, that happens, would a different cartridge choice improve animal harvest? Only you can make that choice. It only matters to you what ethical values you instil in a young hunter and that needs to be measured against what recoil can be handled by him. Involve him in the research. Vague statements like mentioned above are nothing more than blowing smoke for justification through conjecture. BTW, i would look at a 30-30 with a great recoil pad. Iím sure a young man wont shoot past that cartridges capability and when he does and moves in a different direction, heck everyone needs a 30-30 in the safe.
I donít own a 30-30, plus I donít like them at all actually. But thatís just how I feel about them.

But to contribute to the thread, My first rifle I bought was a .243 and still hunt deer with it today. Itís a great, accurate rifle in pump action and I own another .243 for coyotes. I really like the short action family of .308 parent case. Any rifle that fits your son in .243 would be my bet. Then if he gets older can change the stock and have a varmint rifle if he pleases. That is if you cut the stock down for his size now.
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  #59  
Old 08-15-2019, 07:58 AM
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Savage Sam, I think youíre onto the right track, 25-06 and 7-08 are great cartridges, add a 243 and a 308, even a 257 Roberts. Most important thing is to have a rifle that fits him and that he can shoot accurately. Practice with him and heíll be good to go.

I started my son off with a savage axis 243 and now he shoots a Tikka 270. He shot his first buck at 398yds through the heart with a 243, dropped within 60-80 yards of where it was hit. This year he has a moose draw and if he doesnít get it with his bow heíll be using his 270. My youngest son will start out with that same 243 then move up to whatever he wants, if he wants to move up that is.



I sure hope the statement that you donít have to be a proficient shot if you shoot a magnum was said as extreme sarcasm.
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  #60  
Old 08-17-2019, 02:00 PM
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Bought my daughter a kids model 7mm o8 and love it. She never has an issue shooting it. Hardly any recoil. Tons of shells all over to buy. Can shoot all types of different weight bullets if she wants to shoot elk and moose all the way down to small bullets for deer and smaller game. It doesn't cost much to reload either and brass last forever
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