Why the 223 Rem should be a legal big game round

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Hey man, I appreciate what you did and trust me I wanted the press, a wife, two kids, 9 employees and life got in my way. It's not about being lazy, it's about getting the time, and by the time I remembered it was at your Dads place I figured it was gone.

It is what it is but it sure aggravates a guy.

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by last minute

WOW it made it to seven pages

Lol

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by southernman

Everybody else is to busy bickering, so I give you my thoughts.
I qualify that, by saying I've never shot a deer with the .223, however .222 many hundreds of times.
you've not given, much to work with here, what bullet, distance, sized animal.
Threw the shoulder, is one of my preferred shot's, even with the .222, animal size, distance dependant, your aiming to break/shatter the shoulder, and drive bullet and bone fragments, into the top of the lungs and threw the major blood vessels with in the chest, ( yep not popular train of thought with north American shooters)

I found that on small to med sized deer, Lets call that 200lbs and down, yes a quality soft point, will make it threw the shoulder bone, and into the organs and blood vessels in the chest,
If your just going to shoot the yearling doe/hind down the back paddock for meat, by all means use a .223, if your chasing the buck of a life time, or big solid game ie elk, pick something more suited to the task.

Thank you.

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Thank you.

Yes agreed. Great post.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Salavee

All would be happy if you quit pushing that Grendel S--- every day.

You gotta admit it’s sitting pretty now😂

Grendel Grendel bo bendel, banana fanna fo fendel, me my mo mendel.....GRENDELLL😇

[Don_Parsons]

This could be the all round thread for 2018.

Innovative in many directions like no other.

So it is question time.

Why would Saskatchewan, BC, Montana along with a few other places allow the Two-23.

What brought this about, and how could game conservationist justify allowing them.

Yes, all the factors need to come together in order to end up with a ethical harvest,,, and I would think that most hunters that could take game with one would normally choose a bit larger cartrage if they had more then 1 gun.

Of course this brings up another question, what if a person could only afford one gun due to finances.
What happens when cost becomes a factor from the shooters point.

I'd better stop here since I have 3 more questions on top of this now.

Purhaps this is Pandora's Box of unknowns

[Stinky Coyote]

I bet the Ar revolution played a part? But could be data and common sense driven too.

And not sure on all round thread...need a couple good zingers from nwa first, Kurt has done his part.👍

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

I bet the Ar revolution played a part? But could be data and common sense driven too.

And not sure on all round thread...need a couple good zingers from nwa first, Kurt has done his part.👍

Oh you know me, always eager to help out when I can!

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

I bet the Ar revolution played a part? But could be data and common sense driven too.

And not sure on all round thread...need a couple good zingers from nwa first, Kurt has done his part.👍

Corb Lund, Waylon Jennings and sturgil Simpson.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Don_Parsons

This could be the all round thread for 2018.

Innovative in many directions like no other.

So it is question time.

Why would Saskatchewan, BC, Montana along with a few other places allow the Two-23.

What brought this about, and how could game conservationist justify allowing them.

FYI
"A few other places " would include over 40 States snd 4 Provineces on North America alone
Cat

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

FYI
"A few other places " would include over 40 States snd 4 Provineces on North America alone
Cat

It seems to be that the States and Provinces that have hunters and shooters that are confident in their skills will use the .223. The states and provinces that have a lot of hunters and shooters that believe that all other hunters and shooters skills are as limited as their own will not use them..........and think others should not as well. There is a name for that kind of thinking isn't there?

[JD848]

I live and hunt where the 223 is aloud and it can kill if you pick your spots right.

FW asked where I was working what I shot a big black bear with and said a 223, and they looked at the bear in my truck and said really .
The bear had already destroyed my 5 gallon pails of oil which was in the back of my truck,i fired in the air and he had no thoughts on leaving so I cranked him in the back of the head and he never moved again,not my first choice for a bear that size,but that's all I had.
I know I spent at least a grand or more on varget at around 270 rounds per pound,so I know exactly what that cartridge can do and killing if you know good shot placement is must.That goes with any cartridge when it comes to shot placement.

I travel every fall to Ontario to hunt deer and wolf and small game tags are around 600 bucks,so I do bring my 223 and my 22 250 or 220 swift for wolf,
I only hunt there for a decent buck over 160 so the 223 is out cause them big guys seem to always come out around 300 ,at least that the way it happens for me in the places I hunt,one day 20 feet so you never know.

I wouldn't shot a 1400 pound moose unless I had something that hit much harder,if I was stuck no problem,but I ain't stuck for killing any moose what so ever,so the 223 is out.
Give me one rifle to survive in the bush for the rest of my life it would a 223,i am not in the slightest bit afraid of what it cannot do.You can carry plenty of rounds and reloading can be done with a pocket kit if you run low if you had to.

If a hunter hunts with a 375 hh or a 204 I could care less,but don't yap of about if you shot a mag you have no confidence in your capabilities with a 223 or what ever,.Guys that talk like that have no clue where the road begins and the sidewalk ends.I like my 7mm rem after 45 years and it fits me well and I shot well with it plus my 6.5 and my 223 and whoever thinks I don't no how to use them has there head stuck you know where.
Hell I killed a 450 pound black bear at 7 feet with a 20 guage with no beed and a lousy pistol grip with number 4 shot,My knees were knocken I will tell you,just aimed for the top of his head and ears as I rose up the 20 and broke his back,he fell I yard away spinning in circles.A bear can move very fast at 40 feet,he came in full torque and I got lucky,infact the best shot I ever made to save my hide.

I use to go on solo canoe trips for a few hundred miles,with my 22 hornet,at least every 4 years and was never worried about what that hornet could do at ten feet.Lotsa grouse ,rabbits and beaver were good eaten after a few days of fish.
In grizz country which I spent a number of years ,I wouldn't want to be gutting my trophy and have one come on to me when I only have a 223.I could get one shot in his peeper,but why take that risk.Grizz are human hunters and my name is not on the menu so I would choose a bigger cartridge .But we all no there's no grizz in alberta,so give a green horn a 223 and let him enjoy there hunt.

Cheers to all.

JD

[Don_Parsons]

Thanks JD, Cat & SC.

Yes, what "could" take place in the right hands fore sure

So a person with out the best handling on game skills might want to choose a higher performance cartrage maybe.

If it does boil down to shot placement for the 223, limiting the distance of the shot to.

Yes, it sounds like it is left up to the person to decide whether its going to work out or not,,, wize judgement in the matter of seconds since things happen fast in the bush when critters are on the move.

This is not saying that the opertunity doesn't happen when a critter allows us the time for the perfect shot. I don't get alot of those opertunities.

Last fall I passed up on game that were beyond my comfortable shooting distance, couldn't get into position, no place for a steady rest, critters were moving fast, and yet I had endless days of shooting range time from Spring to Fall.

Purhaps I have had awesome success in my magnum days of harvesting game over the years, for some reason I could just stuff the sights onto target and get those tags filled.

Even if the shot placement was off by a few inches, the critters wouldn't go far. I was lucky in those days since I harvested game for many years with out loosing 1 critter.

Thick bush to open cut blocks in the West Country. My all round favorite cartrage was the 300 Weatherby Mag, my close up rifle in the off season was a tactical 308 for predator control,,, of course the more I used the 308,,, the more I enjoyed Harvesting game.

It was always far & few between on the long shots anyways, some how archery filled my needs for many years after that.

As I returned to the firearm arms world I had some head scratching moments picking out a cartrage that would fill in for everything.

It was from 243/6mm on up to the 7mm Mag. Just me that is, so I ended up choosing a caliber closer to the 7 Mag side in hopes that I'd have a cartrage to humanity & ethical harvest most critters with in my limits.

Big game at 20 to 140 yards, medium a bit past that, and predators way beyond that.

I had 1 bad run in with a 6mm many years ago, so I took on the Magnums and went 40+ years with zero critters lost for 14 years. Knock on wood...

I was definitely running on a thing they call over kill, "I hate that word." Ha

Anyways, I was young, tuff, well focused, and pretty good at the shooting thing since the Lacombe range was 880 yards from our back door,,, we had it for 10 or 14 years if I recall. There wasn't a day that I wasn't down there shooting,,, that might be why I owned alot of rifles and hand guns back then.

I always had my main 4 big bores, they covered alot of ground from the mountains of Southern Alberta to the reaches of the far North,,, lots in-between.

I always kept the mid size cartrage stuff handy I guess, I knew that deep down inside that I fall back on it, the old 303 Brit, visions of the 270 or 308 winchester, of course the world famous 30-30. At times I get thinking I should go back to one once and for all.

The main bread winner ended up being a 30/06.

Not the best at every thing, not the worst, kind like to middle grounds of just getting by. Of course F Class 308 things is a part time hobby,,, over all my bases are sorted.

I think I'd take on the 223 challange if I was younger, but my new cabinet only holds so many firearms, plus it's a full time job plinking with the irons I have.

Basically I'm down to one main cartrage, it's a on going battle staying the course since the world keeps throwing out new begining. Ha. And here I am just getting by with what I have.

I concider my self lucky, and and all cartrages on this planet are at my finger tips apon request, family, good friends, fellow brothers and sisters allow me to get in behind some fantastic firearms and optics that are totally out of this world.

Sorry to all for the long post, just waking up this morning thinking out loud, guess I'm off to the range to practic and retain the limited skills I have.

Lots of shooting skills to run threw, folks to visit with, and relax at one of Alberta's awesome shooting ranges.

I hope thoughts of the 223 don't get in the way. Ha

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by trigger7mm

Personally, I think it is a retarded idea to allow people to hunt with a .223, because there are way too many people out there that would be wounding deer with less than ideal shots. Just because someone can hit a target, make it right on actual flesh and bone! .223 dude is going to see that big buck walking over a hill at 300 yards, and is going to start blazing away. In the hands of a very good shot, under very good conditions, then yes, but in the hands of the average Joe, no way.

Jeepers than the same could be said about bows or just about any weapon used to hunt game with.....the grey matter between the ear balls needs to be activated now and then when hunting.....

[urban rednek]

Although I'm disappointed that no one has brought up friction reducing compounds to enhance penetration.

[Suzukisam]

Ok I’ll bite. What about friction reducers on the bullet to aid in deeper penitration on larger game

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

Corb Lund, Waylon Jennings and sturgil Simpson.

went over my head...but country isn't my jam

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by bobalong

It seems to be that the States and Provinces that have hunters and shooters that are confident in their skills will use the .223. The states and provinces that have a lot of hunters and shooters that believe that all other hunters and shooters skills are as limited as their own will not use them..........and think others should not as well. There is a name for that kind of thinking isn't there?

one of the best posts in the thread! that answers that part of the subject entirely

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

FYI
"A few other places " would include over 40 States snd 4 Provineces on North America alone
Cat

Nice additional data! That could have come a little sooner no?

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Nice additional data! That could have come a little sooner no?

Not some secret statistic all it takes us to google it .
Cat

[Don_Parsons]

We use to dispatch beef cattle on the farm with a 22 rimfire, now our butcher fellow comes out with his 22-250 to take them head on at 20 to 50 feet away.

All we hear is the pop, then he runs up there to finish them off with the knife.

This is year 10 of him Harvesting cattle for butchering in central Alberta,,, the little 22-250 lands those cattle in their tracks every time.

He's 2 for 10.000+ in his score. Ha

That is 10.000 + on the instant take downs that is

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by bobalong

It seems to be that the States and Provinces that have hunters and shooters that are confident in their skills will use the .223. The states and provinces that have a lot of hunters and shooters that believe that all other hunters and shooters skills are as limited as their own will not use them..........and think others should not as well. There is a name for that kind of thinking isn't there?

Change evolves slowly up here, we just got Sunday hunting a decade or so ago. At the rate things change we might see hunting with .223 in the next half century...or not

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Don_Parsons

We use to dispatch beef cattle on the farm with a 22 rimfire, now our butcher fellow comes out with his 22-250 to take them head on at 20 to 50 feet away.

All we hear is the pop, then he runs up there to finish them off with the knife.

This is year 10 of him Harvesting cattle for butchering in central Alberta,,, the little 22-250 lands those cattle in their tracks every time.

He's 2 for 10.000+ in his score. Ha

That is 10.000 + on the instant take downs that is

He is not finishing them off. They are dead.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Don_Parsons

We use to dispatch beef cattle on the farm with a 22 rimfire, now our butcher fellow comes out with his 22-250 to take them head on at 20 to 50 feet away.

All we hear is the pop, then he runs up there to finish them off with the knife.

This is year 10 of him Harvesting cattle for butchering in central Alberta,,, the little 22-250 lands those cattle in their tracks every time.

He's 2 for 10.000+ in his score. Ha

That is 10.000 + on the instant take downs that is

Ya, but those are domestic cows, they don't have the titanium and Kevlar that wild animals are made of.

[Talking moose]

Hmmmm... jaw shots....err head shots. Wonder if the general public would resort to head shots more often if the small calibers are introduced. Guessing not since it doesn’t sound like a problem in places where already legal.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by bushrat

change evolves slowly up here, we just got sunday hunting a decade or so ago. At the rate things change we might see hunting with .223 in the next half century...or not

x1000!

ya and when did the archery season finally just start sept 1 instead of the first wednesday of the month...took long enough to fix that too

in the next go round of fixes, can we also let the damm crossbow in where it fits too? good lord

[JD848]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Not some secret statistic all it takes us to google it .
Cat

Your very right CAT,if you go online in the Manitoba forum or hunters from across Canada where there legal there's plenty of info and reviews on the 223 on it's pros and cons.

JD

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

one of the best posts in the thread! that answers that part of the subject entirely

All we need now is to massage that scientific "data "and list the States and Provinces, in numerical order, that have the best shooters. That should keep you busy for a while.

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

went over my head...but country isn't my jam

You originally asked for singers

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

You originally asked for singers

oh ya, auto-correct fail, i tried to catch it but you saw it....lmao, nice one