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03-19-2018, 02:38 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: GP AB
Posts: 16,211
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Self Driving Uber vehicle kills pedestrian
Well, there have been a few accidents now, this fatality is unfortunate to say the least...
http://nationalpost.com/news/world/u...#comments-area
__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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03-19-2018, 03:45 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 21,399
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What a way to gown in history, first person killed by a self driving vehicle.
Grizz
__________________
"Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal."
John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
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03-19-2018, 03:54 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 11,851
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My condolences to the family of the person who was killed.
It should be noted the person fatally struck was j-walking and entered the street into the path of oncoming self driving uber vehicle. The vehicle reacts much faster than a human would, but a human may have noticed someone on the side of the road potentially walking into the lane far outside of what the computer would recognize/be programed to react to so it's impossible to definitively say a human driver would not have also killed the pedestrian.
A human is able to "deductively reason" a person is walking erratically alongside the roadway and may have slowed down knowing there could be a potential collision - a computer may have "noted" or "sensed" her but if she made a sudden 90 degree into the path of the vehicle it's game over.
Unfortunate.
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03-19-2018, 04:12 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: GP AB
Posts: 16,211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM
My condolences to the family of the person who was killed.
It should be noted the person fatally struck was j-walking and entered the street into the path of oncoming self driving uber vehicle. The vehicle reacts much faster than a human would, but a human may have noticed someone on the side of the road potentially walking into the lane far outside of what the computer would recognize/be programed to react to so it's impossible to definitively say a human driver would not have also killed the pedestrian.
A human is able to "deductively reason" a person is walking erratically alongside the roadway and may have slowed down knowing there could be a potential collision - a computer may have "noted" or "sensed" her but if she made a sudden 90 degree into the path of the vehicle it's game over.
Unfortunate.
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Well, the reality is that a lot of people get killed by human drivers (either as pedestrians or in vehicle on vehicle collisions). I wonder what a real comparison would look like, driverless cars vs human operator, per miles driven. That would be an honest stat. Still an unfortunate thing regardless, but my gut feeling is that autonomous vehicles are the way of the future, and I believe it will make the roads safer. Autonomous vehicles won't be distracted with texts, or get drunk or high and drive, or play bumper tag doing 30 kph over on the QEII. Win.
__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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03-19-2018, 04:18 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 564
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Guys this car was a Volvo XC90. They are equipped with active pedestrian awareness. It monitors people even on sidewalks. It just shows all cars have failures. Show me a care that did not have a recall on. They have a long way to go yet. But like everything that is put into cars now days the consumer is the test track drive we will just issue an update later. Oh and did I say Volvo is now a Chinese company
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03-19-2018, 08:01 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 21,399
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Sorry, but I have yet to hear one good argument for self driving cars. Would you believe, some of us actually enjoy driving ?
Grizz
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"Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal."
John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
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03-19-2018, 08:25 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: one Fort or another
Posts: 768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams
Sorry, but I have yet to hear one good argument for self driving cars. Would you believe, some of us actually enjoy driving ?
Grizz
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Exactly. Automated driving cars are the exact opposite to what BMW has been offering over the last several decades. Constantly improving ergonomics and driving experience has been the pinnacle of automakers development strategy.
But like every new fad and pseudo-reason for product offerings, everybody jumps on the bandwagon if they think it will produce sales for the next few quarters. Do we really need ultra-cheap neon colored tennis shoes at a 100 bucks a pop? Thousand-dollar cell phones so you can check every 4 minutes if some acquaintance has sent you a message about their coffee this morning? How about tachometers taking up half the dashboard in trucks which are only available with automatic transmissions?
If you need to drive set routes with perfect separation and safety, put in some rail trams. If you don't like rail, put on extra busses. If you've just had an eye operation, call a cab. This ain't difficult.
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03-19-2018, 08:27 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: GP AB
Posts: 16,211
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I certainly like driving my car....it's everyone else who makes me nervous!
__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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03-19-2018, 08:32 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,556
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03-20-2018, 09:40 AM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzukisam
Guys this car was a Volvo XC90. They are equipped with active pedestrian awareness. It monitors people even on sidewalks. It just shows all cars have failures. Show me a care that did not have a recall on. They have a long way to go yet. But like everything that is put into cars now days the consumer is the test track drive we will just issue an update later. Oh and did I say Volvo is now a Chinese company
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The company is doing better than it ever has under this Chinese ownership. Geely has invested over $10B. Definitely a long way to go though, I can't argue that!
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03-20-2018, 09:56 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 387
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I for one, hope transportation keeps getting smarter and easier. I had to attend a funeral service in Canmore last year, but I really had to come back the same day.
In driving all the way there and back, I thought to myself, If I could have taken an autonomous car from my house to the high speed train, zip to calgary in an hour, and then hop in another autonomous car to Canmore. Then back again, while I could access my computer and phone, the whole way.
Man, that would be very nice.
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03-20-2018, 04:13 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 564
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Only be better when. “ Scotty beam me there”
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03-20-2018, 04:26 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzukisam
Guys this car was a Volvo XC90. They are equipped with active pedestrian awareness. It monitors people even on sidewalks. It just shows all cars have failures. Show me a care that did not have a recall on. They have a long way to go yet. But like everything that is put into cars now days the consumer is the test track drive we will just issue an update later. Oh and did I say Volvo is now a Chinese company
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This wasn’t a self driving vehicle failure or a Chinese owned company. It was a moron walking into traffic. They have a video of it even
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03-20-2018, 05:03 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: At the lake
Posts: 2,502
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Sometimes not even the best tech in the world can save some people from themselves
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03-20-2018, 05:24 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: one Fort or another
Posts: 768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruffy71
I for one, hope transportation keeps getting smarter and easier. I had to attend a funeral service in Canmore last year, but I really had to come back the same day.
In driving all the way there and back, I thought to myself, If I could have taken an autonomous car from my house to the high speed train, zip to calgary in an hour, and then hop in another autonomous car to Canmore. Then back again, while I could access my computer and phone, the whole way.
Man, that would be very nice.
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'self-driving' wouldn't have helped.
Much easier would be have been motorcycle to the train loading dock, load & secure bike, proceed to the restaurant car of high-speed train for brekkie, sleep and read until Calgary, pull bike and head to Canmore. Been there, done that (just change city names).
Or quicker still head to your local strip airport, complete flight plan and weight-and-balance, radio in flight plan, proceed to Calg Int'l. Rent car, go to Canmore.
Last time I checked Calgary doesn't close down at night. A private aircraft with all ratings will be a wee bit cheaper than a full-blown high-speed electric rail system.
Of course high-speed rail makes more sense; you could send massively heavy freight at 300 km/h between Calgary and Fort Mac, freight yard to freight yard. Or airport to city center and beyond. That's because trains don't float too good trans-Atlantic or trans-Pacific.
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03-20-2018, 05:28 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruffy71
I for one, hope transportation keeps getting smarter and easier. I had to attend a funeral service in Canmore last year, but I really had to come back the same day.
In driving all the way there and back, I thought to myself, If I could have taken an autonomous car from my house to the high speed train, zip to calgary in an hour, and then hop in another autonomous car to Canmore. Then back again, while I could access my computer and phone, the whole way.
Man, that would be very nice.
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Taxi or limo service already provides that. You decide what level or luxury you need for what cost.
I agree a Passenger train between cities would be nice.
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03-20-2018, 05:33 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
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So much for the argument ..
"Cars don't kill people...people driving the cars kill people"
Great. Now the machines are rising up. Hawking was right.
They seemed to move self driving cars too fast into real operation. I don't trust them now someone lost their life. Tragic.
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It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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03-20-2018, 08:17 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
They seemed to move self driving cars too fast into real operation. I don't trust them now someone lost their life. Tragic.
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You're making a bit of a leap here and you are missing some basic facts.
At this point there's no evidence to suggest that this was a fault in the car's software or hardware. This may not have been an avoidable accident, it happens every day. There was a person in the car at the time who is there to take over from the car in a safety situation. Presuming they were paying attention and were unable to take action to avoid the impact then what do you expect is going to happen?
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03-20-2018, 08:46 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Strathmore
Posts: 5,573
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Defensive driving is taught daily across NA, for everything from wildlife to pedestrians entering the roadway. Technology has to acquire the pro-active ability most humans have, simple self-preservation hard to teach a robot.
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03-21-2018, 09:16 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 387
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Self preservation algorithms aside. Robot cars will likely stack up very well against, phone conversations, texting, alcohol, weed, fumbling in the glove compartment, falling asleep, sun in your eyes, eating a burger that drips ketchup in your lap, speeding.........
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03-21-2018, 10:06 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midgetwaiter
You're making a bit of a leap here and you are missing some basic facts.
At this point there's no evidence to suggest that this was a fault in the car's software or hardware. This may not have been an avoidable accident, it happens every day. There was a person in the car at the time who is there to take over from the car in a safety situation. Presuming they were paying attention and were unable to take action to avoid the impact then what do you expect is going to happen?
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Don't think so. Statistically speaking there are so few on the roads to have an accident killing a pedestrian so soon speaks to something missing. If the person leap in front to their death then I change my opinion. However you are correct in saying more info would be helpful either way.
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It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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03-21-2018, 10:18 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 387
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I don't think anybody here knows the exact details, but reports are trickling out that this was not a "failure of the technology". Reports are is that it was a homeless person, that turned very suddenly into the road. The bits of info here and there is that no charges will be laid.
So then the question is, should robot cars be better than people, and by how much?
As far as statistics is concerned, you are again respectfully wrong. One incident does not tell you anything. A pitcher in a baseball game can hit the first batter with the first pitch and then throw 81 strikes.
Robot cars might not kill another person for 6 months, a year, 2 years. We do not know how many of these cars are on the road, and how many miles/hours they've racked up. People are killing people with cars every hour of every day. The math may not be so far off as you think.
Lastly, robot car technology is going to get better, are people ever going to be better drivers?
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03-21-2018, 11:50 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 564
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I will wait before I would get one. I want to see it on the test track of America first not the streets of America. Let’s se them try the Daytona or the Indy cars as a proving ground
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03-22-2018, 09:57 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,776
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I would say I stand corrected and that the self driving car did nothing wrong.
http://nationalpost.com/news/world/c...nomous-vehicle
Potentially a driver may of seen something but in the dark I would err to say that the pedestrians were in error here.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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03-22-2018, 10:32 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 387
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As much as I have hope for this technology, having seen the video, I believe it failed. Had the person been at the controls, I don't believe she could have stopped in time. A dark figure, in the dark, walking briskly into oncoming traffic, she was doomed no matter what.
But that the car did not sense her, and apply the brakes, again it would have been futile, but it should have responded.
FAIL.
It is interesting that they commented on the person looking down. She was looking down for too long, relying on the technology, but how many times do all of us glance down, for this or the other thing. If you just happened to glance down for a second in this scenario, you wouldn't have seen the person in time to even reach the brakes.
We've got to do better.
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03-22-2018, 09:12 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Strathmore
Posts: 5,573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruffy71
As much as I have hope for this technology, having seen the video, I believe it failed. Had the person been at the controls, I don't believe she could have stopped in time. A dark figure, in the dark, walking briskly into oncoming traffic, she was doomed no matter what.
But that the car did not sense her, and apply the brakes, again it would have been futile, but it should have responded.
FAIL.
It is interesting that they commented on the person looking down. She was looking down for too long, relying on the technology, but how many times do all of us glance down, for this or the other thing. If you just happened to glance down for a second in this scenario, you wouldn't have seen the person in time to even reach the brakes.
We've got to do better.
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^^^^^^Like & Agree^^^^^^
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03-22-2018, 10:10 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,326
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Until every single “thing” is connected to the “network”, self driving cars will be dangerous.
Thankfully the human mind is unpredictable.
Let’s keep it that way.
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03-23-2018, 05:04 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Westlock
Posts: 5,529
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First self driving car...
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03-23-2018, 07:00 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,502
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Based on what I see with people's abilities to drive, not be distracted in the cab, and the amount of vehicle accidents, deaths related to this inability to drive I would and will fully support the new up and coming technology to self drive...jetsons here we come.
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Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
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