Who’s in the wrong? (F&W vs. Hunter) - Page 5

Dick284 · #**121** 10-20-2020, 12:50 PM

Tried to find my daughters records of taking the course back in 2008.
AHEIA says that in 2008 they never provided a serial number on your course documents, and surprise they had zero records of my daughter taking the course back then(she did online) so we either find some documents to prove it, or she’s going to have to re do the course.

Bushleague · #**122** 10-20-2020, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WinefredCommander

She ****ed up period. Knowing she hadn’t taken to the course. The course is MANDATORY and ALWAYS has been. I know I don’t want people out there who HAVEN’T taken the course. What’s to argue? We ALL want to be safe and the ONLY way to ensure that is by taking the training. As far as I’m concerned people shouldn’t be able to “just take the test” at a sports and leisure show. What a joke that is. Any RESPECTABLE hunter takes the course that takes weeks!!

Completely untrue.

James M · #**123** 10-20-2020, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick284

Tried to find my daughters records of taking the course back in 2008.
AHEIA says that in 2008 they never provided a serial number on your course documents, and surprise they had zero records of my daughter taking the course back then(she did online) so we either find some documents to prove it, or she’s going to have to re do the course.

I think they’re blowing smoke. I never got a card when I took it in 2000 and called them in 2018 to get one. They sent me one dated the wrong year but they had me on file from back then. Maybe just a typo on the certificate.

Dick284 · #**124** 10-20-2020, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James M

I think they’re blowing smoke. I never got a card when I took it in 2000 and called them in 2018 to get one. They sent me one dated the wrong year but they had me on file from back then. Maybe just a typo on the certificate.

Sat on the phone with the gal while she searched every imaginable way, to find the record..... nada.......

Dean2 · #**125** 10-20-2020, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick284

Sat on the phone with the gal while she searched every imaginable way, to find the record..... nada.......

Did she print off anything at all after she took the test. All I and my brother had were our little white wallet cards from 1969 and that was enough for them to be able to issue us two current certificates with numbers on them when we needed proof of course to get a Hawaii hunting license. Hawaii has no recognition for having held a license anywhere else, course or nothing.

elkhunter11 · #**126** 10-20-2020, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WinefredCommander

She ****ed up period. Knowing she hadn’t taken to the course. The course is MANDATORY and ALWAYS has been. I know I don’t want people out there who HAVEN’T taken the course. What’s to argue? We ALL want to be safe and the ONLY way to ensure that is by taking the training. As far as I’m concerned people shouldn’t be able to “just take the test” at a sports and leisure show. What a joke that is. Any RESPECTABLE hunter takes the course that takes weeks!!

ALWAYS? So was the course mandatory in 1960, how about 1940, how about 1920? So why do the regulations even mention having held a license previously in Alberta or elsewhere as an alternative? Some of us held licenses long before the course was mandatory in our home province , so why what would taking the course now accomplish. As far as safety goes, anyone that thinks that a person requires the course to be a safe hunter, is truly naive. If the 14 year old that recently shot another hunter was legally licenced, then he had to have taken the course, and he obviously has no clue about firearm safety.

Talking moose · #**127** 10-20-2020, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WinefredCommander

She ****ed up period. Knowing she hadn’t taken to the course. The course is MANDATORY and ALWAYS has been. I know I don’t want people out there who HAVEN’T taken the course. What’s to argue? We ALL want to be safe and the ONLY way to ensure that is by taking the training. As far as I’m concerned people shouldn’t be able to “just take the test” at a sports and leisure show. What a joke that is. Any RESPECTABLE hunter takes the course that takes weeks!!

B.S

Dick284 · #**128** 10-20-2020, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean2

Did she print off anything at all after she took the test. All I and my brother had were our little white wallet cards from 1969 and that was enough for them to be able to issue us two current certificates with numbers on them when we needed proof of course to get a Hawaii hunting license. Hawaii has no recognition for having held a license anywhere else, course or nothing.

Still in the process of looking, but it doesn’t look good, for finding anything, as it’s already been a couple days of looking(on and off)

Moosetalker · #**129** 10-20-2020, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I have heard from others if you know the year you took it and the name of the instructor they can confirm the details.

LC

Not as far back as 1972 when I took mine I inquired ..No Record of it. I remember the white card I was so proud of it I carted it everywhere till I fell in a beaver run chasing a moose By By card and tags

.

Only reason I wanted # as friends wanted to go on a Colorado elk hunt and test is mandatory there, having a prev hunt license in another jurisdiction is insufficient. Allso too many hoops to go thru to take a firearm that way way easier for a US citizen to bring one here.

FCLightning · #**130** 10-20-2020, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick284

Still in the process of looking, but it doesn’t look good, for finding anything, as it’s already been a couple days of looking(on and off)

Hey, they couldn't even find a record that I was a certified instructor and I had to retake the instructors course.

Dean2 · #**131** 10-20-2020, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moosetalker

Not as far back as 1972 when I took mine I inquired ..No Record of it. I remember the white card I was so proud of it I carted it everywhere till I fell in a beaver run chasing a moose By By card and tags

.

Only reason I wanted # as friends wanted to go on a Colorado elk hunt and test is mandatory there, having a prev hunt license in another jurisdiction is insufficient. Allso too many hoops to go thru to take a firearm that way way easier for a US citizen to bring one here.

I have taken guns to the states many times. Nothing could be easier. One form that is easy to fill in, fax it and get approval back in 6 weeks first time, one week after that as permit is good for a year and u can take as many as u want.

FCLightning · #**132** 10-20-2020, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

ALWAYS? So was the course mandatory in 1960, how about 1940, how about 1920? So why do the regulations even mention having held a license previously in Alberta or elsewhere as an alternative? Some of us held licenses long before the course was mandatory in our home province , so why what would taking the course now accomplish. As far as safety goes, anyone that thinks that a person requires the course to be a safe hunter, is truly naive. If the 14 year old that recently shot another hunter was legally licenced, then he had to have taken the course, and he obviously has no clue about firearm safety.

It became mandatory in the early 80's. Our F&G club at the time all got certified and offered the course twice a year for all the kids wanting to get a licence. There are no records of any of that in existence at AHEIA apparently.

Moosetalker · #**133** 10-20-2020, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean2

I have taken guns to the states many times. Nothing could be easier. One form that is easy to fill in, fax it and get approval back in 6 weeks first time, one week after that as permit is good for a year and u can take as many as u want.

Coming this way is easier sign a declaration at the border no wait period good to go.

Last I checked they also asked for exact location of hunt and required # for pre purchased hunting tag. Maybe changed in last few years My initial inquiry was over 5 years ago now.

dumoulin · #**134** 10-20-2020, 09:39 PM

Really??? Like most stories, there’s the truth and there’s «*the truth*». Not calling anyone out s a liar but if she was ticketed, she wasn’t properly licence and did not meet the criterion or hadn’t taken the course. Call the ticket a cheap 120$ lesson learned. Imagine the alternative???

Take the course, fill in the blanks at the bottom of the win card app with your certificate number. Move on. Hunt.

Dean2 · #**135** 10-20-2020, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dumoulin

Really??? Like most stories, there’s the truth and there’s «*the truth*». Not calling anyone out s a liar but if she was ticketed, she wasn’t properly licence and did not meet the criterion or hadn’t taken the course. Call the ticket a cheap 120$ lesson learned. Imagine the alternative???

Take the course, fill in the blanks at the bottom of the win card app with your certificate number. Move on. Hunt.

Imagine the alternative? How self righteous and sanctimonious can you and others on here get. She has hunted safely for 12 years, what the hell do you think she will learn from the rudimentary course the current version is. It is way watered down from the one 30 years ago. Best way to learn to hunt safely is still quality coaching. A course is a very poor substitute but better than nothing for those without a mentor. It is your typical gov response to trying to show they are doing something about a problem that really didn't exist.

dumoulin · #**136** 10-20-2020, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean2

How self righteous and sanctimonious can you and others on here get. She has hunted safely for 12 years, what the hell do you think she will learn from the rudimentary course the current version is. It is way watered down from the one 30 years ago. Best way to learn to hunt safely is still quality coaching. A course is a very poor substitute but better than nothing for those without a mentor.

Weather or not you think the course is any good is a non issue. It’s a requirement. Also, whom ever she was with should have alerted her to the fact she needed the course. Obviously, her coaching didn’t suffice, as she would have been coached to do the right thing from the get go. No? This is why we have the course in the first place.

Does the course need revision.... yup! Update...yup! But still a requirement as per legislation.

elkhunter11 · #**137** 10-20-2020, 09:52 PM

I don't see a lot of value in the course, but to me, it comes down to whether she lied on the WIN application. If she lied, she deserves what she gets.

Dean2 · #**138** 10-20-2020, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I don't see a lot of value in the course, but to me, it comes down to whether she lied on the WIN application. If she lied, she deserves what she gets.

That I agree with but it is not clear that she was required to take the course. All in, keep accepting ever tightening rules, increasing limits on access to crown land, reduced tags, expanding hunting for natives at the expense of the public and within 20 years no one will need to take the course because u won't be hunting anything anyhow.

dumoulin · #**139** 10-20-2020, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I don't see a lot of value in the course, but to me, it comes down to whether she lied on the WIN application. If she lied, she deserves what she gets.

I totally agree as per the fine. As per the course (not the book), I think it has some value especially in schools to get kids interested and in the field. Good idea for immigrants too to have to take it. They might not have the same upbringing or experience we all might have—ensure they have a chance too and are accountable.

dumoulin · #**140** 10-20-2020, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean2

...ever tightening rules, increasing limits on access to crown land, reduced tags, expanding hunting for natives at the expense of the public and within 20 years no one will need to take the course because u won't be hunting anything anyhow.

That’s a real fear of mine as well. Same deal with firearms....

Salavee · #**141** 10-20-2020, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FCLightning

It became mandatory in the early 80's. Our F&G club at the time all got certified and offered the course twice a year for all the kids wanting to get a licence. There are no records of any of that in existence at AHEIA apparently.

AEIHA did not exist at that time (early `80s) Alberta Conservation and Hunter Education Program is what it was known as up until the AHEIA (Alberta Hunter Education Instructors Assn was formed, sometime in the later 90's.

Exactly when did passing the course become mandatory prior to obtaining a first time hunting license in Alberta É

Salavee · #**142** 10-20-2020, 10:44 PM

https://archive.org/stream/albertaco...0albe_djvu.txt

Talking moose · #**143** 10-20-2020, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salavee

Exactly when did passing the course become mandatory prior to obtaining a first time hunting license in Alberta É

Good question. I’m almost 50 and been hunting since I was 14. Pretty sure the only requirement to hunting then was having a gun.

KegRiver · #**144** 10-21-2020, 12:01 AM

I'm 66 this year.

I don't remember anything being mandatory until some time after the mid 1980s

But back then we were well behind the south in available courses for most things, including first aid and drivers licensing.

I may also have missed it. Back then I was working oilfield and away from home most of the year.

KegRiver · #**145** 10-21-2020, 12:15 AM

As I recall the FAC was replaced by a PAL in 1995.
I think hunter training became a recommendation for first time hunters then but it wasn't until later that it became mandatory.

Previous hunter training courses were entirely voluntary so far as I know.

Mind you I was grande fathered in so I never was required to take the course.

My oldest daughter bought her first Moose license in 1984 and didn't need the course to be legal at that time.
She was also successful and dropped her first Moose with one shot from a sporterized 6.5x 55 Carl Gustaf mouser I sporterized for her.
She still owns that rifle.

fishnguy · #**146** 10-21-2020, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WinefredCommander

Any RESPECTABLE hunter takes the course that takes weeks!!

Weeks? Lol. The current course takes a few evenings at most.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dumoulin

Good idea for immigrants too to have to take it. They might not have the same upbringing or experience we all might have—ensure they have a chance too and are accountable.

Why would immigrants have to take a hunting course and know the difference between a whitetail and mule deer, that shotgun gauge refers to the weight of a solid ball of lead... or that you can’t have a loaded firearm in a vehicle? Absolute majority of Canadians born on Canadian soil have zero clue and didn’t have “the same upbringing”.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMichaud

[I]
A first-time hunter is a hunter who 1) has not previously held a hunting licence in Alberta or elsewhere

According to that, she clearly isn’t a first-time hunter because she had previously held a license. Pretty simple. However, if she checked that box about taking the course without actually taking one, then (from the Wildlife Act):

Ineligibility for licence or permit
15 A person who is not eligible to hold a licence or permit shall
not apply for, obtain or hold a licence or permit or a document that, but for that ineligibility, would be a licence or permit.
1984 cW-9.1 s18

Nullity of licence or permit
16(1) Where a document purporting to be a licence or permit is
issued to a person who is not eligible to hold it, the document is and remains void as a licence or permit.

She was never eligible for any of the licenses she previously held and, for that reason, they were void the moment she got them. Which, in turn, implies that she had never held a license in Alberta and was hunting illegally and every single animal she harvested was harvested so illegally.

From legal perspective, in my opinion, the cop was right. If anything, she got off easy, according to law.

From my personal perspective, she might be a better, safer, and more ethical hunter than most, which solely depends on her and her mentor, if there was any.

catnthehat · #**147** 10-21-2020, 04:40 AM

The whole thing rests on whether she checked off the box as taken the course .
If she did check as "yes",well .........
Cat

bucksman · #**148** 10-21-2020, 08:43 AM

From 2010 Hunting Regs Minister's Message

This year, all first-time hunters must successfully complete the Alberta
Conservation and Hunter Education Course before hunting in our
province.

In the 2010 regs it also states:

Notice: As of 2010, the Alberta Hunter Competency Exam is no
longer offered. Subject to any exceptions noted in this guide,
first-time hunters (adult and youth) must successfully complete
the Alberta Conservation and Hunter Education course.

Says as of 2010 the "Alberta Hunter Competency Exam" is no longer available and you must now complete the "Alberta Conservation and Hunter Education Course" so prior to 2010 you were required to complete the competency exam, so at some point she checked a box somewhere saying she completed an exam/course which she clearly did not so she is in the wrong. Greasy move by the officer though.

Talking moose · #**149** 10-21-2020, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catnthehat

The whole thing rests on whether she checked off the box as taken the course .
If she did check as "yes",well .........
Cat

That’s the part I don’t get. If the requirement is that she hunted pre 2010, and she did, what does it matter if she checked the box or not? She already met the requirement.

Talking moose · #**150** 10-21-2020, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucksman

From 2010 Hunting Regs Minister's Message

This year, all first-time hunters must successfully complete the Alberta
Conservation and Hunter Education Course before hunting in our
province.

In the 2010 regs it also states:

Notice: As of 2010, the Alberta Hunter Competency Exam is no
longer offered. Subject to any exceptions noted in this guide,
first-time hunters (adult and youth) must successfully complete
the Alberta Conservation and Hunter Education course.

Says as of 2010 the "Alberta Hunter Competency Exam" is no longer available and you must now complete the "Alberta Conservation and Hunter Education Course" so prior to 2010 you were required to complete the competency exam, so at some point she checked a box somewhere saying she completed an exam/course which she clearly did not so she is in the wrong. Greasy move by the officer though.

Ok. This answers my question above. Thanks.