NS "Lobster War"

[pinelakeperch]

Can someone provide their analysis on what's happening? I've read the news articles, but I was hoping to get a synopsis from someone either involved, or with close knowledge.

[riden]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...ster-1.5701123



The Marshall case is from 1993 and 99, so there is nothing really new here. It's been illegal for First Nations to sell their lobster catch since 99. But, lobster pounds were charged as that was the easier route. This year the MigWaw (sic) decided they would start a commercial fishery that they would regulate, and issued tags for it. That is my take, otherwise lobster pounds will continue to get charged, as per the link I posted.

The Marshall decision in 99 clarified a point that the crown was asking. Can the Feds regulate the Indigenous Fishery, and the answer was yes, but it had to be justified.

Two big issues here :
#1 what is a moderate income today. Donald Marshall was fishing eels and was selling them for about 25 cents a pound. (I looked the price up, but I can't promise I am right) Today it costs a million to get into the lobster fishery and the present moderate fishery fishers, likely have close to half a million in gear including the boat. Is that part of a moderate income fishery.

#2 IMO, the media doesn't want to touch this one. The indigenous fishery fishes during spawn. I find it hard to believe they do that. When you see the signs saying "There are seasons for a reason" that's what they mean. Should the Feds regulate that? Some say yes, they shouldn't be allowed.

One last thing. Many Indigenous see Donald Marshall 2 as a political decision, not an honest Supreme Court decision, and want to ignore it's ruling. I read this morning that they didn't want DFO involved, but DFO are the ones who would be regulating this.


IMO this is such a mess because small maritime towns AND proponents of Indigenous rights BOTH vote Liberal, so Trudeau wants nothing to do with it.


I will add, I am in no way condoning arson or violence. But you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know this was going to blow up. These small maritime towns need a lobster fishery to survive and the Feds have had a non-existent presence, fearing political fall out.

[schmedlap]

Indeed, being from NS originally, I can understand the anger of the legal lobster fishermen. Some further facts seem relevant.
Until very strict regulation of seasons, sizes, quotas, and licensing came in several decades ago and was actually enforced, the fishery and lobster population were in severe decline, due to the usual over-harvesting and indiscriminate retentions. The regulation of this fishery has been a rare example of unmitigated success in producing a sustainable and consistently profitable industry. Permitting any harvesting outside the correct seasons, areas, and quotas is bound to be a potential or very real disaster for the industry and local economies.
Apparently, according to historians/anthropologists who have researched this, the indigenous people of the Maritimes never fished for or ate lobster prior to the advent of a European fishery. They considered them dirty scavengers, in essence, and not fit for consumption. For whatever reason, they generally never even participated in the fishery, for sustenance or otherwise, after the colonists established it. They did harvest eels (the subject of the Marshall case) and other inshore fish and crustaceans. So, is it not kind of a stretch to label it as a traditional fishery? It may have gotten lumped in under the wide wording of the treaties, but was not likely intended to be included by either side.

[bessiedog]

Indeed, being from NS originally, I can understand the anger of the legal lobster fishermen. Some further facts seem relevant.
Until very strict regulation of seasons, sizes, quotas, and licensing came in several decades ago and was actually enforced, the fishery and lobster population were in severe decline, due to the usual over-harvesting and indiscriminate retentions. The regulation of this fishery has been a rare example of unmitigated success in producing a sustainable and consistently profitable industry. Permitting any harvesting outside the correct seasons, areas, and quotas is bound to be a potential or very real disaster for the industry and local economies.
Apparently, according to historians/anthropologists who have researched this, the indigenous people of the Maritimes never fished for or ate lobster prior to the advent of a European fishery. They considered them dirty scavengers, in essence, and not fit for consumption. For whatever reason, they generally never even participated in the fishery, for sustenance or otherwise, after the colonists established it. They did harvest eels (the subject of the Marshall case) and other inshore fish and crustaceans. So, is it not kind of a stretch to label it as a traditional fishery? It may have gotten lumped in under the wide wording of the treaties, but was not likely intended to be included by either side.[/QUOTE]


Strange..... I’ve found different...

In fact I got a kid in Jr high that is checking this story out... and discovered that lobster was an important trade and food item for these people custom wise....

Apparently that bury it and let it ripen up a bit... then eat it.

..... and there’s like three treaties that specify hunting and fishing rights....

You can actually see the original parchment treaties via this link

https://mikmaqrights.com/negotiations/treaties/



You wouldn’t be jus makin stuff up now would ya...?


Should we just omit Rule of Law / contract law on this ‘cause we don likes it?’

Hmmmmmm

[liar]

Originally Posted by schmedlap

Indeed, being from NS originally, I can understand the anger of the legal lobster fishermen. Some further facts seem relevant.
Until very strict regulation of seasons, sizes, quotas, and licensing came in several decades ago and was actually enforced, the fishery and lobster population were in severe decline, due to the usual over-harvesting and indiscriminate retentions. The regulation of this fishery has been a rare example of unmitigated success in producing a sustainable and consistently profitable industry. Permitting any harvesting outside the correct seasons, areas, and quotas is bound to be a potential or very real disaster for the industry and local economies.
Apparently, according to historians/anthropologists who have researched this, the indigenous people of the Maritimes never fished for or ate lobster prior to the advent of a European fishery. They considered them dirty scavengers, in essence, and not fit for consumption. For whatever reason, they generally never even participated in the fishery, for sustenance or otherwise, after the colonists established it. They did harvest eels (the subject of the Marshall case) and other inshore fish and crustaceans. So, is it not kind of a stretch to label it as a traditional fishery? It may have gotten lumped in under the wide wording of the treaties, but was not likely intended to be included by either side.

From what i have read/heard both side are following the laws as laid our by our federal gov. Which side are you calling " legal"

[Nayr]

Bottom line is harvesting rights can’t over ride conservation of a resource. The government should stop any fishing during spawning. You would think they wouldn’t have to. That’s like hunting cow moose right after they birth their calves.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Nayr

Bottom line is harvesting rights can’t over ride conservation of a resource. The government should stop any fishing during spawning. You would think they wouldn’t have to. That’s like hunting cow moose right after they birth their calves.

spot on....this goes for all.

[58thecat]

Tensions have been mounting between Indigenous and non-Indigenous fishers since Mi'kmaw fishers began a lobster fishing operation outside of the federally designated season in September.
According to a 1999 Supreme Court decision, they have a treaty-protected right to catch and sell lobster to earn a moderate livelihood.....dam now if I made a living fishing and seen my livelihood deteriorate over the years because another gets to "abuse" the season I too would be upset...maybe enough is enough and giving what the world, country has accepted as in rioting, acts of violence etc what would you expect.....this stems from all not being treated equally...as Canadians and nothing more or less....

[JDK71]

well they all picked red so we will just have to wait and see how there great leader helps cant wait to find out

[58thecat]

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...ngs-right.html

a good read on this.....seems to be an issue whether its taking game out here or lobster out there....why...I can answer that for both sides...spineless tip toe through the tulips governments/governing bodies for both sides....no one has the right, privilidge to hunt nor gather out of a regulated season or seasons which will benefit the game sought after and then we all can enjoy the bounty!.....imagine that eh!

[cody j]

Hate to say it but the ways things are heading we may be having a “moose war” here in the west sometime in the future. Hopefully that doesn’t happen.

[.264 Win Mag]

Funny how now they want the RCMP and military called in wonder what they would have to say if the military where called into to deal with the train blockades?? I am not shocked by the hypocrisy.

[Smoky buck]

Two tier system biased on race of course there is going to be problems

[Twisted Canuck]

I'd give my analysis but I would be suspended or banned.

One thing I find interesting though....Perry Belgarde, the Grand Chief of FNs was going off the other day about the 'RCMP not doing their job!!!!'....because they didn't defend the property of the micmaq (sp?) Fisherman..but when the RCMP were out on the wetsuweten land, he was outraged they were actually there (doing their job), but then was happy they didn't do their job arresting the Mohawks who were blockading the railroad tracks, and outraged for how they handled Chief Adams in Ft. Mac....it must be so confusing for the RCMP.

So just as a helpful tip to the RCMP, that Bastian of 'systemic racism'....when you are protecting the FN while they are breaking the law, that's your job and it's good, but when you are actually doing your job upholding the law and it involves FN, that's bad. That is all.

[Armorman]

A similar fight will be on our doorsteps one day. Wait until FN start telling landowners in this province that they (landowners) actually don't own the land. It is coming and you can mark my words. And when it does happen the Government of Canaduh will be right there to side with the FN.

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[trapperdodge]

The federal government managed the cod fishery to extinction. No reason to think they can't do the same with lobster.

[cowmanbob]

Originally Posted by Armorman

A similar fight will be on our doorsteps one day. Wait until FN start telling landowners in this province that they (landowners) actually don't own the land. It is coming and you can mark my words. And when it does happen the Government of Canaduh will be right there to side with the FN.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Just a matter of time.

[Rvsask]

I’m sure whatever the corporate multi billion dollar mega fishery, Clearwater, that has received preferential treatment from both Provincial and Federal Government on this one, says should happen, will happen, on those traditional waters.
http://https://canadians.org/analysi...olent-conflict

If commercial fishermen want what Sundance says is his take, then it’d sense to put some anger towards Clearwater and the gov’t, no???

But yeah, let’s hate on the indigenous fishermen. It seems like AO playbook to me.

[Outbound]

The Maritimers voted for this when they voted Liberal. Enjoy.

[liar]

Originally Posted by Outbound

The Maritimers voted for this when they voted Liberal. Enjoy.

I dont think so . These issues have been about 150 years in the making . Every political party that has had control of this country has failed us and has failed canada by never dealing with these issues properly . Im not a big fan of JT but lets lay blame where it belongs .

[JDK71]

Originally Posted by Armorman

A similar fight will be on our doorsteps one day. Wait until FN start telling landowners in this province that they (landowners) actually don't own the land. It is coming and you can mark my words. And when it does happen the Government of Canaduh will be right there to side with the FN.

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when that day comes there will be a lot of people going to jail and a lot going into the ground just my thoughts

[Big Thumper]

Originally Posted by JDK71

when that day comes there will be a lot of people going to jail and a lot going into the ground just my thoughts

The next push will be the right to hunt on private land without permission.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle28043807/

[JDK71]

yes there will be some interesting times ahead . Land owners will protect there property that they have work hard to have

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Big Thumper

The next push will be the right to hunt on private land without permission.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle28043807/

The chief chose some interesting words, "The Creator gave me that authority to harvest and take," Well the creator gave me the same authority so if we’re going by what the creator has given us rights to over what conservation officers have to say about it, then why do I have to buy a hunting license?

[JULIUS]

Right on Kurt
Genesis 9 ( not a quote )when the ark landed we were given all the animals of the land, sea and air as our food. Sounds like a god given right to me.

In any event any time you have a two separate laws based on anything you are creating discrimination. Discrimination that in many cases leads to outbursts of racism. I stand against racism but not against the outcries of persons wishing to be free of discriminating laws.
For me that goes to all levels including race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.
In Canada we have created many laws which are by their very nature discriminatory. From Our criminal code to and including portions of the charter of rights and freedoms. Some of these laws were made to appease specific groups and to acquire the voting power of these groups.
Canada is a great Country to live in but I see an awful future based on people finally being told they will have to be equal to all others.