Student Activsm vs US Gun Legislation

[260 Rem]

Reminds me of the early days n the '60's. Thoughts on the impact on existing legislation in the US? Will it spread to Canada?

[2 Tollers]

The rules in Canada may move into the US slowly. Tighter restrictions on certain types of firearms for purchase, limits on magazine sizes, some firearms taken off the market, perhaps kit conversions restricted. What they do need they may not get is linking of data on back ground checks and cross state purchase record checks.

A very basic examples on not sharing of data that had a huge impact in this case. The Florida school had two police internal to the school that knew Cruz and his issues but the school board has a policy of not sharing information with the police department. They wanted to avoid creating a path of school to prison.

The police in the area that Cruz lived in responded to 39 calls over 7 years and none of this was used to limit his ability to acquire a firearm. The screw up / cover up with the FBI is well documented.

I also think both countries (Canada and the US) will continue to suffer from poor journalism with sensational stories that are a root cause of events. Look to Europe and how fast using vehicles as weapons spread. Good wide spread press coverage to show people how effective using a vehicle as a weapon truly is gives others the idea to follow suit.

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Reminds me of the early days n the '60's. Thoughts on the impact on existing legislation in the US? Will it spread to Canada?

The 60's in the US was, in large part, about the Vietnam War ... a war, halfway around the world.
This time, the 'war' is right in their own backyard.

As we don't have anywhere near as much gun violence here in Canada (and we're
already heavily regulated), I don't expect it to have much of an effect here.

If the Yanks would just stop shooting each other, maybe they'd get along.

Time will tell.

Selkirk

[riden]

Originally Posted by Selkirk

The 60's in the US was, in large part, about the Vietnam War ... a war, halfway around the world.
This time, the 'war' is right in their own backyard.

As we don't have anywhere near as much gun violence here in Canada (and we're
already heavily regulated), I don't expect it to have much of an effect here.

If the Yanks would just stop shooting each other, maybe they'd get along.

Time will tell.

Selkirk

I agree that we don't have the gun violence the Americans do, and I think any additional firearms laws will have virtually no impact on public safety. However, firearm laws are not always about public safety, but often about optics and politics. I am really worried............. sooner or later there will a government that will change legislation regarding restricted firearms, I think it is inevitable and US gun violence will help pave the way for this to happen.

The average Canadian, knows little or nothing about our existing laws and are really quick to jump on the "ban" bandwagon.

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by riden

I agree that we don't have the gun violence the Americans do, and I think any additional firearms laws will have virtually no impact on public safety. However, firearm laws are not always about public safety, but often about optics and politics. I am really worried............. sooner or later there will a government that will change legislation regarding restricted firearms, I think it is inevitable and US gun violence will help pave the way for this to happen.

The average Canadian, knows little or nothing about our existing laws and are really quick to jump on the "ban" bandwagon.

I'm also worried about the future...but for a different reason.
It's not so much the politicians per se I'm worried about...it is the fact that the left wing 'peace and love' agenda is so prevalent in our schools these days that eventually those young people, most of whom do not hunt or fish or do any outdoor activities (thank video games and social media) just won't see the purpose of firearms and such.
An example: I've been in photography all my working life in one way or another...since 1975. Twenty years ago forward looking people were saying digital would kill film...and all the film purists were saying 'it just isn't going to happen.'
I said (to anyone that would listen) that once the schools started teaching primarily digital that it would take two generations of photography/communications students learning digital and then film would be gone.
I deal with these students everyday...there are lots of 25 year old pro photographers out there who have never shot a roll of film.
I fear the same will happen to our guns eventually...maybe not next year but I am starting to doubt whether my grandchildren will be able to own firearms.

[CNP]

Activism in the US during the 60's to early 70's was focused on race and Vietnam. Nixon ended the Vietnam war largely because of anti-war activism. Activism can win, given the scale of it and the will to change.

If the scale of activism has not reached a critical mass, change will not happen.

There is no critical mass. Student activism (high school students) do not have the inertia/gravitas to effect change.

That's how I see it...

[Imagehunter]

I recently saw an article which stated that 5% of the Earth's population (USA) has 50% of the Earth's weapons. They are already out there and owned, I doubt that stricter gun laws will change anything. If people don't get help (either people with issues or their families and friends) and reports about issues don't get taken seriously by authorities, these laws won't prevent much.

[elkhunter11]

As clueless as many of today's students are, I doubt that they will have the impact that they are hoping. And when the crisis actors start appearing to promote their agenda, they lose even more credibility.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

I'm also worried about the future...but for a different reason.
It's not so much the politicians per se I'm worried about...it is the fact that the left wing 'peace and love' agenda is so prevalent in our schools these days that eventually those young people, most of whom do not hunt or fish or do any outdoor activities (thank video games and social media) just won't see the purpose of firearms and such.
An example: I've been in photography all my working life in one way or another...since 1975. Twenty years ago forward looking people were saying digital would kill film...and all the film purists were saying 'it just isn't going to happen.'
I said (to anyone that would listen) that once the schools started teaching primarily digital that it would take two generations of photography/communications students learning digital and then film would be gone.
I deal with these students everyday...there are lots of 25 year old pro photographers out there who have never shot a roll of film.
I fear the same will happen to our guns eventually...maybe not next year but I am starting to doubt whether my grandchildren will be able to own firearms.

X2

To be specific, America is forgetting how it became America. There were Paul Revere's and George Washington's. I don't know how many more of those there are.

One thing I do know, there are people in this world that will come swooping in once there is no longer "a rifle behind every blade of grass".

It also may not be who we think it might be.

[/tinfoil]

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

As clueless as many of today's students are, I doubt that they will have the impact that they are hoping. And when the crisis actors start appearing to promote their agenda, they lose even more credibility.

The thing is...they are today's students...they are tomorrow voting adults.
It isn't now I'm worried about...it's 20 years from now.
I still want to be able to put a lever action in a scabbard on my wheelchair in the old folks home

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

The thing is...they are today's students...they are tomorrow voting adults.
It isn't now I'm worried about...it's 20 years from now.
I still want to be able to put a lever action in a scabbard on my wheelchair in the old folks home

I am worried as well, not just about owning firearms, but about having health benefits and having a little cash left over after paying the huge taxes that we will likely be paying.

[260 Rem]

I think we will see over the next couple of months if student anger morphs into a “movement” ... and it could happen! They are a “connected” lot, job prospects are questionable, not on board with “the man”, and might have a tough time resisting a call for “Friday off at the Legislature”. Going to get interesting.

[gtr]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

As clueless as many of today's students are, I doubt that they will have the impact that they are hoping. And when the crisis actors start appearing to promote their agenda, they lose even more credibility.

Attitude from some adults is more concerning than any student I know.

[Newview01]

This may be where the push is coming from.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...s-george-soros

Former Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke Jr. insinuated Wednesday that student survivors of the Parkland, Fla., school shooting were being manipulated by Democratic billionaire George Soros to organize for gun control.
In a tweet, the former Wisconsin sheriff wrote that media appearances and an activism campaign from students of the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School against gun violence had "George Soros' fingerprints all over it."

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Newview01

This may be where the push is coming from.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...s-george-soros

Soros would love to see the USA disarmed.

[ChickakooKookoo]

I was expecting the "crisis actors" BS to come up.

How disgusting is it that instead of listening to these poor children that just experienced what will likely be the most traumatic thing in their lives, people are instead questioning their credibility?

Gross.

[sns2]

I am proud of those kids for doing something they believe in. Last time I checked, Freedom of Assembly was still a cornerstone of democratic society. Some of you angry buggers - note I don't say old - are so out of touch with reality when it comes to young people that it is not even funny. They are every bit as bright, hardworking, and talented as when you were in school. Don't give your generation whenever that was more credit than it deserves, and don't devalue this one.

FWIW, I think Canada has struck a good balance of gun legislation. They could learn much from us.

Too much money at stake down there , so I don't see anything changing. Money rules above all, and I mean all, in that country.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ChickakooKookoo

I was expecting the "crisis actors" BS to come up.

How disgusting is it that instead of listening to these poor children that just experienced what will likely be the most traumatic thing in their lives, people are instead questioning their credibility?

Gross.

And I think that it is disgusting that someone would use these students to pursue their personal agenda, if that is indeed happening.

[covey ridge]

I do not think anyone is using the kids. I think the kids have a legitimate concern and are doing something about it. Up until now many have complained that the kids are not involved or don't want to be. I am happy that the kids have taken on this issue. I am looking forward to the younger generation taking over, and hope that some of the angry old guys are put out to pasture.

[Rockman]

Originally Posted by sns2

I am proud of those kids for doing something they believe in. Last time I checked, Freedom of Assembly was still a cornerstone of democratic society. Some of you angry buggers - note I don't say old - are so out of touch with reality when it comes to young people that it is not even funny. They are every bit as bright, hardworking, and talented as when you were in school. Don't give your generation whenever that was more credit than it deserves, and don't devalue this one.

FWIW, I think Canada has struck a good balance of gun legislation. They could learn much from us.

Too much money at stake down there , so I don't see anything changing. Money rules above all, and I mean all, in that country.

Ah, but it's not just the old! :-)

One reason these movements usually don't gain the momentum needed to become laws is that there are good common-sense reasons why what they're calling for won't help. It will inconvenience the good guys with guns and that's it. Once the rubber hits the pavement these movements lose a lot of force not because of the NRA, though everyone loves to say they rule Washington, but because of the many regular people who are active, who call their lawmakers, and all together hold back the tide.

Not to say I think that'll hold back the tide forever. I do think it's very likely that the ignorance will win out and changes will be made. But nothing that'll actually make a difference, more like token stuff, inconveniences. Good people will lose privileges and pay more for stuff, and bad guys will kill on. It's kinda sad, but it's the trend I see.

[Rockman]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I do not think anyone is using the kids. I think the kids have a legitimate concern and are doing something about it. Up until now many have complained that the kids are not involved or don't want to be. I am happy that the kids have taken on this issue. I am looking forward to the younger generation taking over, and hope that some of the angry old guys are put out to pasture.

I think it's a bit of both. Of course there are at least somewhat manipulating adults encouraging and using these kids, and of course the kids can think for themselves and have just been through something traumatic and want it to never happen again. It's definitely borderline manipulative to be shoving them on every stage within days and weeks of this event, at their age, and calling for change based on emotion, not reason. Nothing good will come of it.

IMHO and all that.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I do not think anyone is using the kids. I think the kids have a legitimate concern and are doing something about it. Up until now many have complained that the kids are not involved or don't want to be. I am happy that the kids have taken on this issue. I am looking forward to the younger generation taking over, and hope that some of the angry old guys are put out to pasture.

Yes, the kids need to be involved.

But providing them with misinformation is counter productive.

Can the kids form a polite society? Or will everything offend them?

There is a lot at play here, and I don't like the slant that the media puts on incidents like this.

The Daily Wire has committed to not publishing the names of people who commit despicable acts like this, and I hope other media outlets follow suit. It is common sense like that that students should be fighting for.

[Supergrit]

Hopefully these students can make a difference and the states will start being more restrictive with their gun laws.

[Imagehunter]

Originally Posted by ChickakooKookoo

I was expecting the "crisis actors" BS to come up.

Already past that:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-he-was-fired/

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Supergrit

Hopefully these students can make a difference and the states will start being more restrictive with their gun laws.

[covey ridge]

I do not know if the kids can form a polite society but I would sure like to have them try. The society we have now is not actually polite. To me the one emotion I notice the most is anger.

[Supergrit]

What is the use of having a bump stock to be bought buy a person off the street or semi automatic rifle with a clip anything bigger the 5 shots. I would take Candas gun laws over the states by far a better sysytem.

[densa44]

All the other arguments in the past were made to politicians and they didn't work. This time they are going after the politicians personally, and maybe able to muster enough support to kick them out of office. They got rid of LBJ in the 60's over the war in Vietnam, so we know that it is possible.

I think Toller has it figured out so far. I don't think Canada will be effected because our system in Parliamentary and no party in this country would recommend rules/no rules like the US has right now.

Remember there is nothing sadder than a politician out of office.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Supergrit

What is the use of having a bump stock to be bought buy a person off the street or semi automatic rifle with a clip anything bigger the 5 shots. I would take Candas gun laws over the states by far a better sysytem.

You are judging a product based on you not having a use for a product. Since when is that a legitimate criteria? I personally have no use for many things, but I don't try to ban them , just because I have no use for something.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by sns2

I am proud of those kids for doing something they believe in. Last time I checked, Freedom of Assembly was still a cornerstone of democratic society. Some of you angry buggers - note I don't say old - are so out of touch with reality when it comes to young people that it is not even funny. They are every bit as bright, hardworking, and talented as when you were in school. Don't give your generation whenever that was more credit than it deserves, and don't devalue this one.

FWIW, I think Canada has struck a good balance of gun legislation. They could learn much from us.

Too much money at stake down there , so I don't see anything changing. Money rules above all, and I mean all, in that country.

I as well am proud of them. I just hope they are open minded enough to look at all sides and not be so emotionally driven. Every generation is great, good and bad. Every previous generation looks down on those following them .