ANOTHER school shooting. -Florida-

[vcmm]

Originally Posted by fitzy

I looked it up. In Canada in 2013 1500 people died from drunk driving. Last year 15000 people from guns in the US. I get what you're trying to do but it's not the same fight.

They do license adults to drive .... or do you not have one? They take your license away when you have a record of offenses Elk. They lowered the limit to try and combat it. You don't remember the thread?

The facts of the matter are we do a hell of a lot more to fight drunk driving here than they do to fight mass shootings in the US.

Lots still drive when their their license is pulled.

[vcmm]

https://youtu.be/fTLhm_mdETI

[Hunter guy]

Originally Posted by fitzy

I looked it up. In Canada in 2013 1500 people died from drunk driving. Last year 15000 people from guns in the US. I get what you're trying to do but it's not the same fight.

They do license adults to drive .... or do you not have one? They take your license away when you have a record of offenses Elk. They lowered the limit to try and combat it. You don't remember the thread?

The facts of the matter are we do a hell of a lot more to fight drunk driving here than they do to fight mass shootings in the US.

You can still get in a vehicle and drive drunk without having a license.

I think the absolute least the states could do is execute the offenders of these horrible crimes, mental or not, goodbye. You knew how to load and shoot the gun, you aren't mental anyway, but who cares if you were.... Look at what you have done.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by vcmm

Lots still drive when their their license is pulled.

According to this, about 75% of suspended drivers continue to drive.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...ences-1.967713

The Ontario Ministry of Transportation said there were almost 266,698 suspended drivers in the province in 2008. Mothers Against Drunk Driving estimates 75 per cent of those people continued to drive.

So suspending licenses obviously is not preventing impaired drivers from continuing to drive, and continuing to be a threat.

Just one of many examples of a habitual impaired driver killing someone.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...llor-1.3745666

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

According to this, about 75% of suspended drivers continue to drive.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...ences-1.967713



So suspending licenses obviously is not preventing impaired drivers from continuing to drive, and continuing to be a threat.

So how about when they lose their license they lose their vehicle too?

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by Hunter guy

You can still get in a vehicle and drive drunk without having a license.

I think the absolute least the states could do is execute the offenders of these horrible crimes, mental or not, goodbye. You knew how to load and shoot the gun, you aren't mental anyway, but who cares if you were.... Look at what you have done.

I'd be ok with that.

[260 Rem]

Interesting how most threads about school shootings pivot to comparisons with drunk driving. How about a focus on two things, schools and shootings ...not schools and knives, not schools and bombs, not schools and cars used as weapons, etc, etc, etc....
There is an issue in the USA concerning shootings in schools. Have individual “rights” usurped the right of kids to be safe in schools .... perhaps? Fortunately, we are not yet faced with that question in Canada....hope we keep it that way.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by fitzy

So how about when they lose their license they lose their vehicle too?

Why not deal with the cause rather than the effect? By requiring a person to have a license to obtain alcohol, you could prohibit a habitual impaired driver from legally accessing alcohol. Why is it acceptable to license firearms owners, but not people that consume alcohol, when alcohol killed and injures far more people?

Whenever firearms licensing or registration is discussed , some people will use vehicles and driving to justify the licensing and registration of firearms, so why not use that same reasoning to justify licensing for alcohol consumption?

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Interesting how most threads about school shootings pivot to comparisons with drunk driving. How about a focus on two things, schools and shootings ...not schools and knives, not schools and bombs, not schools and cars used as weapons, etc, etc, etc....
There is an issue in the USA concerning shootings in schools. Have individual “rights” usurped the right of kids to be safe in schools .... perhaps? Fortunately, we are not yet faced with that question in Canada....hope we keep it that way.

So true. How can you argue for a system that allows it? Have to have defections and comparisons no other way.

The news makes me more proud to be Canadian every day.

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Why not deal with the cause rather than the effect? By requiring a person to have a license to obtain alcohol, you could prohibit a habitual impaired driver from legally accessing alcohol. Why is it acceptable to license firearms owners, but not people that consume alcohol, when alcohol killed and injures far more people?

Seems pretty easy to circumvent. kids have been doing it for decades.

[brendan's dad]

It is kinda an "apple to orange" comparison. I know in recent years we have seen an increase in the use a vehicle for an "intentional" killing, ie terrorist attacks and such. But for the most part, drunk drivers do not get behind the wheel with the sole intention of killing people. The death occurred because they increased significantly their likelihood of being involved in a motor vehicle accident. People don't smoke with the intention of getting cancer. People don't eat unhealthy and gain weight with the intention of getting heart disease.

But....

Unless you are willing to argue for the sake of arguing.....

When a person picks up a firearm and points it at another living creature and pulls the trigger, the intention is always to kill that living creature. That is why a gun is different than a vehicle, or cigarette, or cheese burger, or a knife, or baseball bat, or hockey stick, or a....etc......

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by fitzy

Seems pretty easy to circumvent. kids have been doing it for decades.

Implementing legal storage standards for alcohol would keep many kids from drinking. Much harsher penalties for supplying alcohol to minors or prohibited people would do the same. It just isn't as acceptable for some people to mandate the responsible use of alcohol, as it is to mandate the responsible use of firearms.

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Why not deal with the cause rather than the effect? By requiring a person to have a license to obtain alcohol, you could prohibit a habitual impaired driver from legally accessing alcohol. Why is it acceptable to license firearms owners, but not people that consume alcohol, when alcohol killed and injures far more people?

Whenever firearms licensing or registration is discussed , some people will use vehicles and driving to justify the licensing and registration of firearms, so why not use that same reasoning to justify licensing for alcohol consumption?

You'll notice this thread was about someone walking into a school with a gun and shooting kids in the US. You're comparing apples to hockey pucks.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

It is kinda an "apple to orange" comparison. I know in recent years we have seen an increase in the use a vehicle for an "intentional" killing, ie terrorist attacks and such. But for the most part, drunk drivers do not get behind the wheel with the sole intention of killing people. The death occurred because they increased significantly their likelihood of being involved in a motor vehicle accident. People don't smoke with the intention of getting cancer. People don't eat unhealthy and gain weight with the intention of getting heart disease.

But....

Unless you are willing to argue for the sake of arguing.....

When a person picks up a firearm and points it at another living creature and pulls the trigger, the intention is always to kill that living creature. That is why a gun is different than a vehicle, or cigarette, or cheese burger, or a knife, or baseball bat, or hockey stick, or a....etc......

If a police officer arrives at your door to tell you that your wife or your children were killed by an impaired driver, is it going to matter to you whether the impaired driver meant to kill anyone?

[vcmm]

Back on track guys. Don't need another thread closed.
I believe the FBI was warned about this nutback in September

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by fitzy

You'll notice this thread was about someone walking into a school with a gun and shooting kids in the US. You're comparing apples to hockey pucks.

And people like yourself are blaming the firearm, not the someone. The cause of the shooting is that someone, not the firearm. Even the FBI admit that they did not follow their protocol in dealing with the someone.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...i-nikolas-cruz

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If a police officer arrives at your door to tell you that your wife or your children were killed by an impaired driver, is it going to matter to you whether the impaired driver meant to kill anyone?

You know you're comparing 2 different governing bodies in 2 different countries right?

How about you write your MP and demand action.

Write about rural crime and justice reform while you're at it. Try to do some good.

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And people like yourself are blaming the firearm, not the someone. The cause of the shooting is that someone, not the firearm. Even the FBI admit that they did not follow their protocol in dealing with the someone.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...i-nikolas-cruz

Not at all.

I'm simply saying that whatever they're doing down there isn't working. They need to change something. Do something. Come up with some kind of plan to curb these types of shootings.


The problem with many is that unless you're rabidly defending the right you must be left. Or vice versa. That's not how rational people live. I'm pro gun. I'm also pro gun control. Crazy right.

[elkhunter11]

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Interesting how most threads about school shootings pivot to comparisons with drunk driving. How about a focus on two things, schools and shootings ...not schools and knives, not schools and bombs, not schools and cars used as weapons, etc, etc, etc....
There is an issue in the USA concerning shootings in schools. Have individual “rights” usurped the right of kids to be safe in schools .... perhaps? Fortunately, we are not yet faced with that question in Canada....hope we keep it that way.

Of course individual rights have surpassed the importance of children's lives. They can always have more kids, (they're pretty easy to make), but the second amendment is forever (even thou it itself is an amendment ).

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If a police officer arrives at your door to tell you that your wife or your children were killed by an impaired driver, is it going to matter to you whether the impaired driver meant to kill anyone?

Police will never show up and tell you that your loved one was killed by an impaired driver. They will tell you that they were killed in a motor vehicle accident. You will find out later that it was an impaired driver. Once you find out, you will be angry and sad.

With murder you will be angry, sad, and ask "Why?" The "Why" is usually the hardest part for everyone. Even when you tell a parent of young person involved in criminal activity such as drugs or gangs, they still ask the "Why?" The "Why" is always the hardest part for them to get past. Knowing that the death was intentional and that someone would actually want to specifically kill their child makes a huge difference.

[operator john]

18 school shootings since Jan. 1st...by the same generation that is doing the Tide Pod Challenge laundry detergent...and you wanna say we have a gun problem.

[vcmm]

"Back on track guys. Don't need another thread closed"
There I quoted myself. The thread is about school shootings and firearms.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by operator john

18 school shootings since Jan. 1st...by the same generation that is doing the Tide Pod Challenge laundry detergent...and you wanna say we have a gun problem.

I guess it's just Darwins law yet again. It then makes sense why these shootings keep happening mostly in the US.....

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Police will never show up and tell you that your loved one was killed by an impaired driver. They will tell you that they were killed in a motor vehicle accident. You will find out later that it was an impaired driver. Once you find out, you will be angry and sad.

With murder you will be angry, sad, and ask "Why?" The "Why" is usually the hardest part for everyone. Even when you tell a parent of young person involved in criminal activity such as drugs or gangs, they still ask the "Why?" The "Why" is always the hardest part for them to get past. Knowing that the death was intentional and that someone would actually want to specifically kill their child makes a huge difference.

One of my best friends lost his wife to an impaired driver, and I can assure you, that Why was very much on his mind, especially after it turned out that the impaired driver was a repeat offender.

[vcmm]

Originally Posted by operator john

18 school shootings since Jan. 1st...by the same generation that is doing the Tide Pod Challenge laundry detergent...and you wanna say we have a gun problem.

Starts at 16:20 All in how you report information
https://youtu.be/fTLhm_mdETI?t=977

[vcmm]

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=339562

[elkhunter11]

As to a solution to stop these senseless massacres, I have yet to hear anyone come up with a solution that will accomplish that. Licensing all firearms owners is one suggestion, and it may help to keep some people from legally obtaining firearms at the spur of the moment, but a person that plans ahead, will still likely find a way to obtain a firearm, and most of these shootings are planned in advance. As to our licensing system, it is badly flawed, because some people are exempted from having to take course and write a test to prove competence. There should be absolutely no exceptions, if the licensing is considered worthwhile. As to restricting the AR-15, as in Canada, there are many other similar firearms that are not restricted that would do just as much damage. That is the result of a badly flawed classification system, that classifies based on emotion and appearance rather than on function.
The only way that I can see to reduce these shootings significantly, is to install metal detectors at every school, monitored by an armed guard. It may come to the point where airport like security is employed at every school, but at least that would be effective, as compared to the feel good solutions that many people are suggesting.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by operator john

18 school shootings since Jan. 1st...by the same generation that is doing the Tide Pod Challenge laundry detergent...and you wanna say we have a gun problem.

Fake News!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...umn/343100002/

[vcmm]

https://s10.postimg.org/n7vuvydrt/57...40_B6_EAD4.jpg