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Old 10-02-2018, 09:13 PM
Marty S Marty S is offline
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Default "Algonquin Wolf"... They need some help!

So for many years, special interest groups and like minded people decided to pretend that the coyotes in the Algonquin Park are were actually wolves. This lie has spread to such end that the govenment there is enacting legislation/protection of these so called wolves. The animals in question are actually coyotes, of which a significant percentage of their genetics is comprised of dawg DNA.

This lie has carried on for some time, to such end that enough of the c=scientific community are backing the farce and attempting to get protection for the mongrel coyote species. This has gone too far.

To the best of my knowledge, it is my understanding that scientific DNA research has proven these animals to be actual "coyotes", and not actually "wolves" however, the special interest groups that have permeated/infected/defiled the scientific process have also taken hold in government and hold key power positions, and could care less what science has to say, they are pushing forward with the pretending/pseudo-science/lie and have shut down or are going to shut down large areas to hunting and trapping to protect the aforementioned coyote gene pool.

The Ontario Fur Managers Federation has battled this for some time. In my mind, it seems that they need to sue, however, they are taking a more eloquent action and they need a few dollars to help them support their cause.

I strongly encourage trappers/individuals to support their cause financially, directly. If people can hide scientific fact and push such an agenda thru there, there is no reason why they can't push other such false agendas thru elsewhere in this country. As Alberta trappers, we need to jump into this fight and do what we can.

They have a plan in place and from reading a thread on the Canadian Trapper Forum, it sounds like as though they will be hiring a biologist and performing an independent study to further support true science and thereby strengthen their position.

Here is a post from the thread on the Canadian forum:

"...Official Statement from the Ontario Fur Managers Federation
I would like to thank Jim Gibb for starting this thread to help spread the word on a research project that we are working on to help stop the protection of the Eastern / Algonquin wolf. Also thank you to all the individuals and organizations that have contributed to this research project to date. As many of you are aware, Cossaro listed the newly named Algonquin Wolf, formally called the Eastern Wolf to threatened on the species at risk list. That is when the MNRF placed 3 new protection areas in the Province of Ontario as a temporary recovery strategy. At that time, we were opposed to the decision to put any protection areas in place until more TRUE scientific research was done to truly figure out what was on the ground and how the impacts of protecting a top Predator would have on our ecosystem and prey species. You can’t protect the top predator and expect good things to happen, and we are not buying the current research that Ontario researchers have done stating that there was a new species out there. After attending many open houses, and poking lots of holes in their research at the recovery strategy meetings they changed their position that this was not a new species and was just a hybrid derived from the Gray Wolf and the Coyote. While were doing all this at the recovery strategy meetings we were also having meetings with the MNRF Minster and explaining the problems we seen in their Science and how the Protection will affect the whole eco-system. We asked for a delay in their decision until more scientific evidence could be gathered and that is when we told them we would help by collecting DNA samples from the proposed 32000 square km protection area free of charge to see what was truly on the ground and get some true scientific research done as there was more holes in their research than swish cheese. We at the O.F.M.F have always said that we will always support the truth no matter what the results show but at this time we don’t believe that the truth is being told. It is merely a political based decision being pushed by the animal protection groups with lots of money. We were very pleased when MNRF Minister decided to hit the pause button to allow for more time for more research and posted an 18 month delay notice. That brings us to today, with less than a year away from the final decision, time is of the essence. We have gathered up lots of DNA samples and paid to have them tested but we are not Doctors of Science and now have to see what the Data shows, that is why we are hiring a Doctors of Science to take our Data and write a unbiases and impartial research paper and show us TRUE SCIENCE on what is going on in our landscape, but this is not cheap, and that is why we are asking for help to try to fund this research. If this protection goes through what hybrid species will be next? What Province will it spread to? This will truly impact our Nation. We have heard from some people that what if this research comes back the same as the rest? Well Folks, we will have to accept it as it will be the truth but I feel in my heart that there is no way it can be, as trappers and resourse users alike we all know what will happen if we protect a top Predator, we do not need a Doctor of Science degree to Know this ourselves, so True Science I am sure will also show that. If you like to Donate we would certainly appreciate it. You can send your donation to our Office
at:
ONTARIO FUR MANAGERS FEDERATION
531 SECOND LINE EAST
SAULT STE MARIE, ON P6B 4K2
PHONE: (705) 254-3338 FAX: (705) 254-3297

Or e-transter at : furmanages@gmail.com

We do not monitor this Forum on a regular basis so PLEASE direct your questions to our office and we will be happy to assist you. Thanks for your support from the O.F.M.F.

I encourage all Alberta trappers reading this thread to send these people a few bucks... $50? $100? $20? Whatever you can. Lets fight the battle there, before such a battle reaches our doorstep!


Here is the thread. If you are not a member of the forum, you will have to sign up to read it... I think!

http://www.trapper.ca/cnta/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13314
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  #2  
Old 10-02-2018, 09:19 PM
Marty S Marty S is offline
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Point of interest... The South Country Trappers Association upon hearing of our fellow trappers plight, immediately donated to their cause. Perhaps you could make your local/association aware of this and also consider contributing?

Thank you for your lending your ear!
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Old 10-03-2018, 10:53 AM
tonnage tonnage is offline
 
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I was told the Alberta Trappers Association agreed to give them $2000.00 at their last board of directors meeting.
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Old 10-03-2018, 09:26 PM
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EZM EZM is offline
 
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Not taking sides here - but we are mixing up common names versus taxonomy (scientific names) - so I'm confused (and curious) as to why this even an issue ..... here's my understanding .....

From a biological and classification perspective - all "coyotes" are, in fact, are "wolves".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf

There is no single purebred wild species within the genus "canis" in North America.

https://www.the-scientist.com/the-nu...t-coyote-33123


The Algonquin wolf is a hybrid of the grey wolf and common prairie wolf (coyote).

Even isolated populations of Grey (Timber) wolves have some Coyote genes, albeit less than the sub species described as Algonquin Wolf.

The term "wolf" or "coyote" is a common name, and, purely from a scientific perspective, another species under the same genus.

Any special interest group, on either side of this argument, is going to need to deal with that little "issue" if the "plan" is to use genus/species as a defining the status of the Algonquin wolf.

Last edited by EZM; 10-03-2018 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 10-07-2018, 06:47 AM
Marty S Marty S is offline
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And back on planet earth, there are wolves and there are coyotes. The Algonquin "wolf" simply put is a coyote. That is, if you acknowledge that coyotes exist. Eastern coyotes are full of dawg DNA, which makes them more domestic and less "special" rare wild animal species that needs to be protected.

Meanwhile, beware of "scientific studies" orchestrated by the environmentalist/anti-wildlife consumption movement. Always a nasty anti hunting-trapping slant on things, always an underlying agenda.
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:15 PM
trapperdodge trapperdodge is offline
 
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The Algonquin Park (AP) wolf has been studied for decades. A strong wolf lobby is involved. At one point it was suggested the AP wolf was in fact an eastern red wolf. - an extinct species. Not sure if this idea is still being promoted.
The AP wolf exists because of its location. When governments had aggressive preditor programs wolves were wiped out in many areas of the continent. With fewer wolves to kill them coyotes expanded to all the lower States and all Provinces.
For sure they crossed with whatever the remaining AP wolf population there was.
The AP wolf is not a new species. It's gene pool will continue to become increasingly coyote.
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Old 10-09-2018, 09:14 PM
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EZM EZM is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty S View Post
And back on planet earth, there are wolves and there are coyotes. The Algonquin "wolf" simply put is a coyote. That is, if you acknowledge that coyotes exist. Eastern coyotes are full of dawg DNA, which makes them more domestic and less "special" rare wild animal species that needs to be protected.

Meanwhile, beware of "scientific studies" orchestrated by the environmentalist/anti-wildlife consumption movement. Always a nasty anti hunting-trapping slant on things, always an underlying agenda.
Marty, I too, am sympathetic to your argument, however science is decisive and crystal clear on this matter. DNA is indisputable. Science is real.

The articles you are citing from an expert are those of a person with a special interest in this outcome. Furthermore, I could not find any indication this expert was a biologist, not could I find any scientific facts presented here describing the genetic sequencing that would provide clear evidence.

As far as your expert is concerned - It seems to be a well written compelling argument, however, holds little credibility based on what I said above.

Attacking the opinions of other contributors will only serve to destroy your support from us, who are not anti-hunting nor do we have any agenda here.

The fist waving arguments and attacks made here can be as loud, offensive as you want - BUT the peril you may face is they just serve to destroy your cause by making enemies of people who could have helped you try and understand the issue and form a strategy that is sound, credible and worth consideration by those in decision making positions ...... but if you want to stick to that script and repeat clearly flawed and grossly obvious inaccurate arguments - easily verified by anyone with even an elementary level of intelligence on this subject - fill your boots - let me know how you make out.
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