May have to go to the Crossbow...

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by AbAngler

Right on. I respect that.

JustinC, I'm the greedy one eh?

Potty, I just haven't seen any proof one way or the other. Google it, yahoo it, I don't care. My google-fu is admittedly weak, so I was hoping someone else would have better luck.

At least try and find examples of archery seasons being wrecked by letting xbows in. I did, and didn't come up with much supporting either argument.

Cheers! Gotta go.

Perhaps it's still to new everywhere, so seeing the consequence will take a couple of more years. Maybe the damaging effects by then would be to late to fix. The trend you would be looking for is a balance at first and a graduale shift in numbers....it won't be a crash that everyone thinks......we are talking long term affects that people are not seeing.

[ishootbambi]

how can i be wrong on numbers justin? the only numbers i have talked about are success rates. there have been several links throughout all of these threads showing that. if you are talking hunter number...i havent estimated any or linked to any studies showing what they might be. all anyone can do is guess...which really i havent done. and i wont simply because i have no idea.
bowhunt, it is ovvious where the greed lies. the anti xbow guys in thse threads have all shown a common theme. they want no new archers that could increase the archery harvest which could limit opportunities for the current bowhunting group. they are unwilling to share the season for what you guys keep saying will mean less opportunity for the group in place now.


lemme put this another way. this is hypothetical and a little far fetched, but hear it out. lets say gun control gets more ridiculous than it already is and for example a new tax came out that made a box of rifle shells cost 500 bucks, and like some european countries do now you would be forced to store your firearm at the cop shop. it is safe to assume that many people would give up on owning guns, but many of them would still like to hunt. then lets say that xbows are never accepted into archery season, but a whole new whack of vertical bowhunters are born. lets assume the number of new bowhunters is exactly the number of potential new xbow hunters that have been feared for 40 odd pages of discussion. if that played out and the numbers are what you say, would you have the same problem with the same number of new hunters if they all opted your weapon of choice? all things being the same for your argument, the same number of harvest increase and the same reaction of more draws etc.

[Rob Miskosky]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Perhaps it's still to new everywhere, so seeing the consequence will take a couple of more years. Maybe the damaging effects by then would be to late to fix. The trend you would be looking for is a balance at first and a graduale shift in numbers....it won't be a crash that everyone thinks......we are talking long term affects that people are not seeing.

Actually it isn't that new pottymouth. This is from the editor of Horizontal Bowhunter, Daniel James Hendricks.

This past year has been a banner year for the expansion of the crossbow hunting seasons. The first state to add the crossbow to their bowhunting season was North Carolina. For some unexplainable reason, the southern states have marched at the very front of the movement to include crossbows into the archery seasons. Wyoming has always (since the very first day of its archery season) considered the crossbow to be just another piece of archery equipment. The South answered back in 1973 when the second state to include the crossbow in its archery season was Arkansas. In 1976, Ohio was the next state to jump on the “bandwagon of common sense” making the crossbow just one more choice for its bowhunters.

For the next 26 years, a struggle was waged against a very small and dedicated group of pro-crossbow advocates (many of whom I am privileged to call friend) by a very large and vocal camp of anti-crossbow bowhunters. Throughout that time, the crossbow movement gathered data from the states that allowed crossbows, using that information to inform and educate the general-public, as well as legislators and state game management agencies. In 2002, the growing bloc of crossbow advocates had their next expansion victory when the state of Georgia moved to the crossbow side of the ledger. In 2004, another State from the Deep South, Alabama, joined the slowly swelling ranks of the crossbow camp. In 2005, it was Tennessee and Virginia that threw their support behind the crossbow by including it in their archery season.

As the struggle intensified, gains stalled out until 2008 when two more Southern States, Louisiana and South Carolina joined the enlightened and added their names to the pro-crossbow roster. That brought the total number of states that consider the crossbow to be just another archery tool to nine.

This year has been a whirl-wind rollercoaster ride for the crossbow movement as the names of five more states have been added to the list. North Carolina went first carrying on the great tradition of the South leading the way. The North finally got busy by adding Pennsylvania and the lower two-thirds of Michigan after long and intense struggles that were intellectually argued by the local pro-crossbow movements. The South spoke loudly once again, when Texas stepped across the line by legislating crossbow inclusion nearly unanimously in both their House of Representatives and their state’s Senate. The cherry on the sundae in 2009 was the sweet little state of New Jersey, which is the most recent convert to the crossbow cause. Those victories expand the crossbow hunting opportunity to approximately 2 million additional gun hunters and 618 thousand bowhunters. It is our sincere hope that these new crossbow seasons will help recruit thousands of individuals that have never hunted before to help bolster the shrinking numbers of hunters nationwide. Overall, it has been a good and successful year for the crossbow brotherhood. One fact is clear, the more direct and personal contact the hunting community has with the crossbow, the more ineffective the crossbow myths are that have been used to malign this unique hunting tool. It should be obvious to all, the snowball is picking up speed as it rolls towards the bottom of the hill. Theng and hard for the crossbow and the expansion of the crossbow-hunting season, that there will be no rest until all states and provinces accept this unique implement as just one more option for the bowhunting season.

It should also be noted that Ohio, Arkansas and Ontario have allowed crossbows during archery season for nearly 30 years. Wyoming, British Columbia and the North West Territories for about twenty years.

[HerdBull]

Originally Posted by JustinC

I am looking at the big picture not just me me me.

I'll be honest, I'm mostly just thinkin bout "me me me" lol. I wanna still be able to go buy a moose tag every year for every zone within 4 or 5 zones of home. I still wanna go Muley huntin down south every year. I see enough stupidity in gun hunters around here to lead me to truly believe that most of them will run out and buy a crossbow so they can start early. Then a bunch of them will realize that its not quite as easy as what it seemed, and the next thing will be the mighty "pilot hole"! Lol. It already happens a lot more than most of us know, and this will almost certainly make it worse.
.
Now before 3 or 4 of you go off on what I said about gun hunters above, the ones I'm talkin about are the slack jawed morons drivin around in their pickups (or quads), beers in hand, party hunting (by both definitions lol), trespassing and shootin out the windows of the truck. I spent almost 10 years hunting a few sections of land in the bowzone, and never really was exposed to "the outside world" lol. It had both species of deer, elk and moose. With the exception of an annual spring bear trip up here, I didn't really stray too far for big game. It was a shock to the system when I went out in November last year and saw how bad its really gotten. These guys will wreck it fellas, they don't know any better and don't care to learn. Protect what you love.

[MathewsArcher]

Originally Posted by HerdBull

I'll be honest, I'm mostly just thinkin bout "me me me" lol. I wanna still be able to go buy a moose tag every year for every zone within 4 or 5 zones of home. I still wanna go Muley huntin down south every year.

X2

From SRDs proposal paper......

Significant changes that would be considered include; putting moose and mule deer hunting under the authority of Special Licences in many WMUs and reducing rifle (general) allocations where required

[ishootbambi]

so mathewsarcher and herdbull are willing to admit their motives here. anyone willing to answer the question i asked. what if it were vertical bowhunters whose numbers doubled overnight. the results you are fearing should be no different, but that awful xbow is out of the picture. id love to hear a response.....

[HerdBull]

Originally Posted by MathewsArcher

X2

From SRDs proposal paper......

Even though the word "rifle" is right there beside the word "general", they really have no business being in the same sentence as the words "moose season" lol. I don't have regs in front of me, but if memory serves, arnt there only like 1 or 2 zones you can hunt a moose with a general tag and a rifle in the whole province? I could be wrong, just something that stuck in my head.
The point of my little speech is, they are talking about general tags in archery season, and in that typical "say it without coming right out and saying it" govt way, are saying "the number of zones we can hunt a moose in archery season with a general tag is gettin slashed down to nothing.

[Rob Miskosky]

Originally Posted by HerdBull

I spent almost 10 years hunting a few sections of land in the bowzone, and never really was exposed to "the outside world" lol. It was a shock to the system when I went out in November last year and saw how bad its really gotten. These guys will wreck it fellas, they don't know any better and don't care to learn. Protect what you love.

Funny, I've spent nearly 35 years hunting "the outside world" as you put it and haven't been exposed to "how bad it's really gotten". Even back in the day when we had twice as many hunters in the field. That was many years ago, guess you were probably too young to hunt back then.

[HerdBull]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

so mathewsarcher and herdbull are willing to admit their motives here. anyone willing to answer the question i asked. what if it were vertical bowhunters whose numbers doubled overnight. the results you are fearing should be no different, but that awful xbow is out of the picture. id love to hear a response.....

I'd be just as concerned if for some reason bowhunter numbers were set to double or triple for some reason. I can't think of a legitimate reason that would happen off the top of my head, but I'm sure somehow it could. And I would be just as displeased with that. I don't want to see a huge influx of people into the archery season period. I hunt with a bow to avoid the crowds, for easier access to private land and easier to acquire tags (plus I don't enjoy gun hunting anymore, but honestly that's secondary to the first 3 reasons). More people is going to spoil that, the way more people spoiled rifle season.

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by Rob Miskosky

Funny, I've spent nearly 35 years hunting "the outside world" as you put it and haven't been exposed to "how bad it's really gotten". Even back in the day when we had twice as many hunters in the field. That was many years ago, guess you were probably too young to hunt back then.

Its bad here Rob. I have Bowhunted for 25 years in the 212 and last year was the worst ive seen it. The "old" days where not this bad. Toss in a few hundred new guys and we are in big crap.

[ishootbambi]

rob, back in the day there were twice as many hunters as today, but there is less land available today where landowners openly accept hunters. i dont think its half, but it is less so hunter number per sq mile would likely be not as different as it first seems. further, more guys it seems have gotten the trophy bug meaning the days of nearly everyone shooting the first deer they see and going home are gone. the same guys hunting more can keep pressure the same. make any sense?

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Rob Miskosky

Actually it isn't that new pottymouth. This is from the editor of Horizontal Bowhunter, Daniel James Hendricks.

This past year has been a banner year for the expansion of the crossbow hunting seasons. The first state to add the crossbow to their bowhunting season was North Carolina. For some unexplainable reason, the southern states have marched at the very front of the movement to include crossbows into the archery seasons. Wyoming has always (since the very first day of its archery season) considered the crossbow to be just another piece of archery equipment. The South answered back in 1973 when the second state to include the crossbow in its archery season was Arkansas. In 1976, Ohio was the next state to jump on the “bandwagon of common sense” making the crossbow just one more choice for its bowhunters.

For the next 26 years, a struggle was waged against a very small and dedicated group of pro-crossbow advocates (many of whom I am privileged to call friend) by a very large and vocal camp of anti-crossbow bowhunters. Throughout that time, the crossbow movement gathered data from the states that allowed crossbows, using that information to inform and educate the general-public, as well as legislators and state game management agencies. In 2002, the growing bloc of crossbow advocates had their next expansion victory when the state of Georgia moved to the crossbow side of the ledger. In 2004, another State from the Deep South, Alabama, joined the slowly swelling ranks of the crossbow camp. In 2005, it was Tennessee and Virginia that threw their support behind the crossbow by including it in their archery season.

As the struggle intensified, gains stalled out until 2008 when two more Southern States, Louisiana and South Carolina joined the enlightened and added their names to the pro-crossbow roster. That brought the total number of states that consider the crossbow to be just another archery tool to nine.

This year has been a whirl-wind rollercoaster ride for the crossbow movement as the names of five more states have been added to the list. North Carolina went first carrying on the great tradition of the South leading the way. The North finally got busy by adding Pennsylvania and the lower two-thirds of Michigan after long and intense struggles that were intellectually argued by the local pro-crossbow movements. The South spoke loudly once again, when Texas stepped across the line by legislating crossbow inclusion nearly unanimously in both their House of Representatives and their state’s Senate. The cherry on the sundae in 2009 was the sweet little state of New Jersey, which is the most recent convert to the crossbow cause. Those victories expand the crossbow hunting opportunity to approximately 2 million additional gun hunters and 618 thousand bowhunters. It is our sincere hope that these new crossbow seasons will help recruit thousands of individuals that have never hunted before to help bolster the shrinking numbers of hunters nationwide. Overall, it has been a good and successful year for the crossbow brotherhood. One fact is clear, the more direct and personal contact the hunting community has with the crossbow, the more ineffective the crossbow myths are that have been used to malign this unique hunting tool. It should be obvious to all, the snowball is picking up speed as it rolls towards the bottom of the hill. Theng and hard for the crossbow and the expansion of the crossbow-hunting season, that there will be no rest until all states and provinces accept this unique implement as just one more option for the bowhunting season.

It should also be noted that Ohio, Arkansas and Ontario have allowed crossbows during archery season for nearly 30 years. Wyoming, British Columbia and the North West Territories for about twenty years.

Ok , I'll take those facts. But now don't those same states offer, game farms, baiting and paid hunting, esentially, if you pay to obtain to hunting rights, you should be able to hunt with whatever legal weapon of choice........Now I'm gonna open another can of worms but, maybe I'm starting to see the benefits of paid hunting......if were gonna keep dividing the hunting population maybe the best way is on economic stature, SRD is really promoting this because they want more hunters, MORE MONEY... so if you can afford it pay for hunting...maybe I was wrong to quickly judge this.

Seems like everyone on here FOR xbows, keeps saying they wont use them anyway, so why Act like a certain country in this world that buts into everyones business, trying to protect the minority? I did the same for the pay to hunt, against it because it's everyones equal right......but really, should I care...I can Afford it and I will still hunt.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by HerdBull

I'd be just as concerned if for some reason bowhunter numbers were set to double or triple for some reason. I can't think of a legitimate reason that would happen off the top of my head, but I'm sure somehow it could. And I would be just as displeased with that. I don't want to see a huge influx of people into the archery season period. I hunt with a bow to avoid the crowds, for easier access to private land and easier to acquire tags (plus I don't enjoy gun hunting anymore, but honestly that's secondary to the first 3 reasons). More people is going to spoil that, the way more people spoiled rifle season.

you have already admitted to wanting to keep the hunting for yourself herdbull and i respect that. the silence from others however is deafening.....

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

rob, back in the day there were twice as many hunters as today, but there is less land available today where landowners openly accept hunters. i dont think its half, but it is less so hunter number per sq mile would likely be not as different as it first seems. further, more guys it seems have gotten the trophy bug meaning the days of nearly everyone shooting the first deer they see and going home are gone. the same guys hunting more can keep pressure the same. make any sense?

Your greatest contribution.........great line.

[HerdBull]

Originally Posted by Rob Miskosky

Funny, I've spent nearly 35 years hunting "the outside world" as you put it and haven't been exposed to "how bad it's really gotten". Even back in the day when we had twice as many hunters in the field. That was many years ago, guess you were probably too young to hunt back then.

Admittedly, I'm young compared to a lot of the fellas around here. I've only really been huntin for about 12 years with the exception of ridin along with dad as a kid huntin grouse from the truck. This is all the experience I have to draw from, I'm doin the best I can with what I have to work with. And in those 12 years, I've seen things get progressivley worse. To give a prime example, everybody is always talkin about how under funded SRD is. Why in the world did the cost of a wildlife certificate drop then all of a sudden? Lol. That makes NO sense to me! Didn't they just go through a bunch of budget cuts? If we can afford to go huntin, the extra $7 we saved on our wildlife certificate means very little to us, but a whole lot to SRD it would seem to me.
Don't mean to go off topic here, sorry bout that lol

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

you have already admitted to wanting to keep the hunting for yourself herdbull and i respect that. the silence from others however is deafening.....

I'm not going to admitt that! Why, because that's not why i'm against this!
It more like i'm fighting to keep hunting the way it is for all of us! Do you really want to wait 6-8years for a deer draw? How about 12-16 for a sheep?

[MathewsArcher]

Well off to Saskatchewan for three days of pounding snow geese........
Wonder if this thread will still be at the top when we get back. Hopefully with a few hundred snows in the back of the truck like last year.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by BowhuntAB

I'm not going to admitt that! Why, because that's not why i'm against this!
It more like i'm fighting to keep hunting the way it is for all of us! Do you really want to wait 6-8years for a deer draw? How about 12-16 for a sheep?

read the question i asked bowhunt...i would really like to hear a response.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by MathewsArcher

Well off to Saskatchewan for three days of pounding snow geese........
Wonder if this thread will still be at the top when we get back. Hopefully with a few hundred snows in the back of the truck like last year.

good luck dude....i hope you get a pile and have a bunch of fun. bring your warm stuff, the weather report isnt looking great, but heck, hunting in poor weather is better than not hunting.

[Rob Miskosky]

Originally Posted by HerdBull

Why in the world did the cost of a wildlife certificate drop then all of a sudden? Lol. That makes NO sense to me! Didn't they just go through a bunch of budget cuts? If we can afford to go huntin, the extra $7 we saved on our wildlife certificate means very little to us, but a whole lot to SRD it would seem to me.

When did our Wildlife Certificate drop in price? Seems to me it's gone up in price a couple times over the past few years.

[HerdBull]

Used to be $35. Now its $28.

[Rob Miskosky]

Well, I will admit I only went back to 2005 when it was $24 and change but I do have copies back until 1995, unfortnately they are at the office and I am now at home. Will have to look later.

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

how can i be wrong on numbers justin? the only numbers i have talked about are success rates. there have been several links throughout all of these threads showing that. if you are talking hunter number...i havent estimated any or linked to any studies showing what they might be. all anyone can do is guess...which really i havent done. and i wont simply because i have no idea.
bowhunt, it is ovvious where the greed lies. the anti xbow guys in thse threads have all shown a common theme. they want no new archers that could increase the archery harvest which could limit opportunities for the current bowhunting group. they are unwilling to share the season for what you guys keep saying will mean less opportunity for the group in place now.


lemme put this another way. this is hypothetical and a little far fetched, but hear it out. lets say gun control gets more ridiculous than it already is and for example a new tax came out that made a box of rifle shells cost 500 bucks, and like some european countries do now you would be forced to store your firearm at the cop shop. it is safe to assume that many people would give up on owning guns, but many of them would still like to hunt. then lets say that xbows are never accepted into archery season, but a whole new whack of vertical bowhunters are born. lets assume the number of new bowhunters is exactly the number of potential new xbow hunters that have been feared for 40 odd pages of discussion. if that played out and the numbers are what you say, would you have the same problem with the same number of new hunters if they all opted your weapon of choice? all things being the same for your argument, the same number of harvest increase and the same reaction of more draws etc.

It has to do with harvest estimates from the gov that are 15% of archery tags get filled. so if 1000 people bought a bow tag 150 animals were killed.If it goes up even 50% to 1500 peole we would also see 15% kill ratio so it would be 225 dead deer.Same as your gun control no different. It would mean over harvest and a draw would be impleneted and wait swould jump by quite a bit.I would fight either of them It has nothing to do with a crssbow it is anything else that alows more animals to be killed to have tomake changes that effect what we know and love about hunting in Ab.Also with the proposed draw cahages we all would gre screwd. I dont like the sound of that do you? Know do you see what I am talking about with numbers? We dont know exact numbers be we know they will go up but a fair margin.

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by HerdBull

I'll be honest, I'm mostly just thinkin bout "me me me" lol. I wanna still be able to go buy a moose tag every year for every zone within 4 or 5 zones of home. I still wanna go Muley huntin down south every year. I see enough stupidity in gun hunters around here to lead me to truly believe that most of them will run out and buy a crossbow so they can start early. Then a bunch of them will realize that its not quite as easy as what it seemed, and the next thing will be the mighty "pilot hole"! Lol. It already happens a lot more than most of us know, and this will almost certainly make it worse.
.
Now before 3 or 4 of you go off on what I said about gun hunters above, the ones I'm talkin about are the slack jawed morons drivin around in their pickups (or quads), beers in hand, party hunting (by both definitions lol), trespassing and shootin out the windows of the truck. I spent almost 10 years hunting a few sections of land in the bowzone, and never really was exposed to "the outside world" lol. It had both species of deer, elk and moose. With the exception of an annual spring bear trip up here, I didn't really stray too far for big game. It was a shock to the system when I went out in November last year and saw how bad its really gotten. These guys will wreck it fellas, they don't know any better and don't care to learn. Protect what you love.

It is all about us us us. We all would suffer not just you or me.That is what I really ment.I think crossbow and bow people are not about us but me.

[ishootbambi]

ok justin, i see where you are going. srd has a set number of animals that they think is right to come out of a given wmu. if the bow harvest goes up, then the bowhunt will go to a draw to maintain the harvest to what they think is right. lets deal with one issue at a time. we can talk about draw changes that might or might not be in that thread. so, if the archery harvest goes up, then archery hunting will be reduced through draws. seems to be what would be best for the resource in that case (again dont bring up srd's numbers for target harvest in this one). so in short, by allowing xbows in archery season, archery harvest goes up and archery hunting opportunity will be reduced. the truth is, that is what the bowhunters dont want to give up. what they perceive as their exclusive right to buy a mule tag and in some areas a moose tag EVERY year is being threatened and that is what 45 or so pages of discussion really comes down to. the xbow itself isnt even the real root of the problem here. as i have said, if overnight vertical bowhunters were to double, then all the same scenarios would be staring us in the face. a few guys here keep saying vertical is the only way to bowhunt, but if their own numbers doubled....same cries would be heard. there have only been a few anti-xbow guys willing to admit what is obvious.

[HerdBull]

Originally Posted by Rob Miskosky

Well, I will admit I only went back to 2005 when it was $24 and change but I do have copies back until 1995, unfortnately they are at the office and I am now at home. Will have to look later.

Was the price of a wildlife certificate not $35.22 last year, or at the very most, the year before? Maybe that number that sticks in my head is including the bowhunting permit, but I'm not thinkin so. I'm sure I remember it being $35.

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

ok justin, i see where you are going. srd has a set number of animals that they think is right to come out of a given wmu. if the bow harvest goes up, then the bowhunt will go to a draw to maintain the harvest to what they think is right. lets deal with one issue at a time. we can talk about draw changes that might or might not be in that thread. so, if the archery harvest goes up, then archery hunting will be reduced through draws. seems to be what would be best for the resource in that case (again dont bring up srd's numbers for target harvest in this one). so in short, by allowing xbows in archery season, archery harvest goes up and archery hunting opportunity will be reduced. the truth is, that is what the bowhunters dont want to give up. what they perceive as their exclusive right to buy a mule tag and in some areas a moose tag EVERY year is being threatened and that is what 45 or so pages of discussion really comes down to. the xbow itself isnt even the real root of the problem here. as i have said, if overnight vertical bowhunters were to double, then all the same scenarios would be staring us in the face. a few guys here keep saying vertical is the only way to bowhunt, but if their own numbers doubled....same cries would be heard. there have only been a few anti-xbow guys willing to admit what is obvious.

I agree with you about vertical numbersincrease would do the same. As for that there are a lot of them that should not be out there either. That is why You should have to prove you are capable to even use one. Not just go buy on shoot for an hour and go hunting in the morn.As for draws That is a big part of the issue.I dont want to have to sit at home every year cause I have to wait for years for a tag.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by JustinC

I dont want to have to sit at home every year cause I have to wait for years for a tag.

years for which tag? moose or muley buck? you'd stay at home because of that when numerous other deer tags and likely elk tags to chase around each and every year while waiting for cracks at more intermittent tags like we're all used to waiting for anyhow....i know, its nice building moose priority while bowhunting them general every year....end of day its super selfish argument for a much sought after species(moose) and a particular trophy(muley buck)....when i could be taking out newbies and getting them first deer with crossbow instead of a gun and closer to home in seasons where theres enough daylight to do it on a weeknight as well as on the weekends giving way more opportunity to find time to get new people hunting as there's lots of species with the numbers to stay general

and again, i don't see the numbers of new hunters jumping as high as the doom and gloom scenerios portrayed here...

[Artist]

"...so in short, by allowing xbows in archery season, archery harvest goes up and archery hunting opportunity will be reduced."

No, I don't think so. Like I said in an earlier post, IMO, crossbows are waaaaaaay overrated and I don't understand the fear of them.

The philosophy developing in this thread seems to be that "new hunters" will all run out and buy crossbows, almost instantly become accurate shooters, and shortly thereafter, decimate wildlife populations. I don't buy that philosophy.

The harvesting of any animal still depends primarily on the hunter and not so much on the particular technology being used. A lousy inexperienced hunter is still a lousy inexperienced hunter no matter what weapon he/she has in hand. Any crossbow hunter still needs to get within close range of the target and no lousy inexperienced hunter will accomplish that, even while carrying his prized "400lb ultra rocket turbo octane killer crossbow"! Again, from my experience, crossbows are klunky, awkward, and are prone to hooking on to things in the bush. This may even likely make stalking and/or hunting with them even more challenging than with a regular bow.

Not to sound arrogant, but I'd gladly challenge any crossbow hunter to a hunt where I would have my Bowtech, and he would have his prized "400lb ultra rocket turbo octane killer crossbow" , especially in the case of him being a new hunter who has never actually carried or hunted with a crossbow in the field. I suspect I'd be following a blood-trail while he was still trying to figure out how to load his machine!

Don't get me wrong, I love crossbows. I've owned one and hunted with one. They are fun and deadly little weapons at close range. But like I said, they're waaaaaaay overrated!

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

years for which tag? moose or muley buck? you'd stay at home because of that when numerous other deer tags and likely elk tags to chase around each and every year while waiting for cracks at more intermittent tags like we're all used to waiting for anyhow....i know, its nice building moose priority while bowhunting them general every year....end of day its super selfish argument for a much sought after species(moose) and a particular trophy(muley buck)....when i could be taking out newbies and getting them first deer with crossbow instead of a gun and closer to home in seasons where theres enough daylight to do it on a weeknight as well as on the weekends giving way more opportunity to find time to get new people hunting as there's lots of species with the numbers to stay general

and again, i don't see the numbers of new hunters jumping as high as the doom and gloom scenerios portrayed here...

They will for sure every gun only hunter I asked said they would go buy one and hunt with it.So I think there is way more than you think.


I have not read anything in the first one do to I was not going to joint in after 20 pages.