Creedmoor

[bubba300]

I am trying to think back what made me pick the creedmoor over the 260 rem,I always wanted a 260 until I read about the CM(this was about 6 or 7 years ago),it was in a magazine.I remember it saying it was based on the 30 TC case.I remember reading it was supposed to be a more efficent case over the 308 case according to the magazine writers.When I started shooting it,it was hard to find brass,hornady was the only one making it.I was fire- forming 22-250, 7-08 and 243 brass also.I am pretty sure it was the magazine writers that got me.I did think about going with the 6.5 x 47 lapua because Ron Smith had praised it and he shoots a 6 x 47 Lapua.In the end I went with the Creedmoor and have had nothing bad to say about it.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sns2

You missed my point. I listed the other rounds to say that rifles chambered in those cartridges were also sent to all the writers and crates of ammo were available to all the industry types at Shot Show,no different than the CM. I know that for an absolute fact because I watched videos and read reviews on all the cartridges I listed. From what I saw, they received EXACTLY the same push as the CM.

Also, I am still looking for all the"extra marketing" the CM supposedly received.

Maybe, just maybe, Hornady is scratching where people are actually itching with the CM.

Chuck asked for flaws. I know a thing or two about this, and I don't think there really are any; certainly not many. I think it is a good low recoil hunting round, just like many similar rounds.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

The WSM cartridges did not have the high B.C. factory loads, there is no 6.5mm version, and they don't function well in the AR-10 style magazines or actions. They were also not introduced in the long range rifles that are the rage today. In fact those rifles were not nearly as popular when the WSMs were introduced. In short, they were marketed to an entirely different group of shooters. The 26/28 Nosler definitely won't fit the AR-10 based actions/magazines, and again, they are available in few rifles/factory loads, and again, they were marketed to an entirely different market segment. Look at the new rifles at the range, the largest growing market segment is the tactical/long range segment, if you appeal to that segment, you sell more rifles.

[Don_Parsons]

Yes,,, a endless supply of rifles and ammo for many different cartrages out there.

100's of different selections of ammo for 223, 243, 25/06, 6.5's, 270, 7mm, 280, 30, 303, 338, 35, 375, 416, and so on.

One would think there's 1 to 3000 different combinations of factory brass to bullet selections at each sporting goods shop.

Look at Sportsman Den in Red Deer,,, Two shelves full of factory ammo,,, 5' T x 16' L on both sides,,, about 4" by 8 boxes with 3 stacks in each 1 foot by 1 foot shelf some double stacked in behind.

That's works out to 22.400 boxes of factory ammo,,, X's by 20= just under 500.000 bullets.

Would it be wise for the rifle and ammo manufactures to shut this market down since it feeds all 1 to 140 + different caliber rifles on the market.

Winchester, Remington, and Federal still produce factory 303 British ammo. Ha. A person can all so buy 30/30 ammo. 123 years,,, who-da thunk. Ha

One would think that this would continue for anotuer 100 years since there are alot of them out there.

Yuppers, all is good as our market of good times continues to grow.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The WSM cartridges did not have the high B.C. factory loads, there is no 6.5mm version, and they don't function well in the AR-10 style magazines or actions. They were also not introduced in the long range rifles that are the rage today. In fact those rifles were not nearly as popular when the WSMs were introduced. In short, they were marketed to an entirely different group of shooters. The 26/28 Nosler definitely won't fit the AR-10 based actions/magazines, and again, they are available in few rifles/factory loads, and again, they were marketed to an entirely different market segment. Look at the new rifles at the range, the largest growing market segment is the tactical/long range segment, if you appeal to that segment, you sell more rifles.

You fail to follow my train of thought. You, and others, keep saying it's all marketing, so I asked to see all the ads. No one shows any ads, but you say they send rifles to writers. I said they did the exact same thing for other new cartridges I list.

The CM is chambered in those commando rifles because the round makes sense for those platforms AND equally so for hunting rifles. The 6.5 CM has wide appeal. It just does. The other new cartridges I listed obviously don't.

Why can't you just admit that it is a good round that has wide commercial appeal?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Wrongside]

Originally Posted by chuck

It’s painful to watch.

And predictable. Same crowd of old Fudds shows up whenever a 'new' cartridge is introduced and commercially successful. Can't even spell it- let alone understand modern cartridge design- but will go on and on about how it offers 'zero' over whatever their pet cartridge is. 😉

I like them all. My main rifle for years has been a old 3o-o6 Springfield. I adore my Trapper Win 94 3o-3o. And really enjoy my Creeds for what it brings to the table with modern bullets. Hint- it's not just marketing...

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sns2

You fail to follow my training. Of thought. You keep saying it's all marketing, so I asked our ads. You don't show any ads, but say they send rifles to writers. I said, they did the exact same thing for other new cartridges I list.

The CM is chambered in those rifles because the round makes sense for those platforms AND hunting rifles. The other new cartridges I listed obviously don't.

Why can't you just admit that it is a good round that has wide commercial appeal?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Marketing is not just advertising, it's making the product appealing to a certain market segment. And since the cartridge was designed specifically for those platforms, of course it works well in those platforms. So offering the chambering in those platforms, makes it attractive to the people that like those platforms, and those people are a huge part of the current firearms market. And since it is so popular with that market segment, it has spilled over to the hunting rifle market. Many people that would like one of those high dollar platforms can't afford them, so they buy a regular rifle in the same clambering. As far as standard bolt action rifles go, if you use regular hunting bullets, instead of the high B.C. long range bullets, the Creedmoor offers no real advantage over the 260rem. Yes it's a good cartridge, but for the average hunter, that isn't trying to shoot past 500 yards, it really doesn't offer any improvement over the 260 rem, and unless you are hung up on a short action, the 6.5x55, still outperforms it slightly with modern hand loads. In fact, purchasing a Tikka T-3 in this cartridge makes no sense for a handloader, because the action length is the same as for the 6.5x55. As was posted before, a deer won't know if it was killed with a 6.5 Creedmoor, or a 260 Rem. The bottom line, is that contrary to what some people believe, there is nothing magic about the Creedmoor. My Sako and my Tikka in 6.5x55 both shot 1/2moa with my hand loads, and will do anything that the Creedmoor will do for the hand loading hunter.

[sns2]

I have previously said that it is not perceptibly different from a 260, 7-08, 6.55x55, 308 and 7x57. Just different brands of orange juice. All taste the same.

If you really want to split hairs, it is an improvement on a 260 because you can seat bullets further out, it recoils less than a 308 and at long ranges many put forth a solid argument that it does have a bit of an advantage, and is also a short action cartridge. That is a pretty darn good package.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sns2

I have previously said that it is not perceptibly different from a 260, 7-08, 6.55x55, 308 and 7x57. Just different brands of orange juice. All taste the same.

If you really want to split hairs, it is an improvement on a 260 because you can seat bullets further out, it recoils less than a 308 and at long ranges many put forth a solid argument that it does have a bit of an advantage, and is also a short action cartridge. That is a pretty darn good package.

Yes you can seat bullets slightly longer, but as you say, it is splitting hairs, hairs that the average hunter will never notice. Then again, I was able to seat bullets to the lands in my 260, and they still fit the magazine. As to the short action , some consider saving 2 or 3 ounces to be an advantage, but to me, that few ounces is not something that I worry about.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Yes you can seat bullets slightly longer, but as you say, it is splitting hairs, hairs that the average hunter will never notice. Then again, I was able to seat bullets to the lands in my 260, and they still fit the magazine. As to the short action , some consider saving 2 or 3 ounces to be an advantage, but to me, that few ounces is not something that I worry about.

Elk, every damn thread is splitting hairs. Where have you been?

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Look at the pictures o the rifles in the link I posted. many are not sporting rifles, they are tactical/chassis rifles. They are a significant part of the Creedmoor market

Again missing half of what is said.

[JD848]

Originally Posted by chuck

Again missing half of what is said.

You were looking for flaws ,so I asked where they were in the CM,now half is missing ,please explain so this splitting hairs comes to end,You shot more than most guys in a life time with your CM in 6 months ,sure as heck some type of flaw or plus half of what half of what was said is missing.

If I tell some one your half wrong then you must know the other half.

Please explain or educate us.your making statements that needs to be answered.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by sns2

Elk, every damn thread is splitting hairs. Where have you been?

Laughing. Finally the truth!

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by JD848

You were looking for flaws ,so I asked where they were in the CM,now half is missing ,please explain so this splitting hairs comes to end,You shot more than most guys in a life time with your CM in 6 months ,sure as heck some type of flaw or plus half of what half of what was said is missing.

If I tell some one your half wrong then you must know the other half.

Please explain or educate us.your making statements that need answers.

What are you wanting me to explain?

[JD848]

Originally Posted by chuck

What are you wanting me to explain?

Your statements.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by JD848

Your statements.

Please be specific. Thanks.

[6.5 shooter]

I think we should only be allowed to shoot a (sporterized) .303 and end all this bickering.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Look at the pictures o the rifles in the link I posted. many are not sporting rifles, they are tactical/chassis rifles. They are a significant part of the Creedmoor market

All well and good but these pictures only depict tactical style or precision style rifles , but the Creedmoor is also being used in Fclass I understand but there are also quite a few conventional style hunting rifles by companies like Savage, Cooper and Ruger as well as others being produced , not to mention that the typical across the course high power rifle ( irons and sling) is not pictured there either , from where the Creedmoor originated from what I read in the previous link .

Cat

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

All well and good but these pictures only depict tactical style or precision style rifles , but the Creedmoor is also being used in Fclass I understand but there are also quite a few conventional style hunting rifles by companies like Savage, Cooper and Ruger as well as others being produced , not to mention that the typical across the course high power rifle ( irons and sling) is not pictured there either , from where the Creedmoor originated from what I read in the previous link .

Cat

The Creedmoor was developed to fit the SR25/AR10 magazines for high power rifle shooting. If it weren't for that type of magazine being used in high power shooting, the Creedmoor likely wouldn't exist. And that is why it is still so popular in those tactical / chassis style rifles. Most hunting rifles don't use that magazine configuration, and as a result, the advantages that the cartridge provides in that magazine, may not be much if any advantage in the various hunting rifles.

[mattthegorby]

Could the problem be not that the 6.5 CM is marketed too hard, but that up until now other 6.5's or the .260 or whatever has not been marketed well enough?

I ask this because as a new shooter everyone I knew was recommending a .270, .308, and 30-06. If it wasn't for the hoopla online and availability of 6.5 CM in tons of different models I likely would have ended up with more gun than what was needed for where I am at right now. Low recoil is huge for me. (though, admittedly I may have gone 7mm-08)

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The Creedmoor was developed to fit the SR25/AR10 magazines for high power rifle shooting. If it weren't for that type of magazine being used in high power shooting, the Creedmoor likely wouldn't exist. And that is why it is still so popular in those tactical / chassis style rifles. Most hunting rifles don't use that magazine configuration, and as a result, the advantages that the cartridge provides in that magazine, may not be much if any advantage in the various hunting rifles.

According to the link that Don Parsons posted and from what I was told a few years back because I was also assuming wrong,it was not designed around the AR10 but the Tubb 2000 which is a bolt action National course rifle .
Cat

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The Creedmoor was developed to fit the SR25/AR10 magazines for high power rifle shooting. If it weren't for that type of magazine being used in high power shooting, the Creedmoor likely wouldn't exist. And that is why it is still so popular in those tactical / chassis style rifles. Most hunting rifles don't use that magazine configuration, and as a result, the advantages that the cartridge provides in that magazine, may not be much if any advantage in the various hunting rifles.

I might not be but as it turns out it sure is.

[saskbooknut]

Not into tactical rifles, so don't care much about that application. Not starting any gunfights at my age.

6.5 CM is good, not saying otherwise. But, it's equal in sporting rifles has been around a long time. Short actions are HFOR, rarely resulting in real weight savings without a whole lot of other effort.

Had a chuckle with 6.5 shooter. A nice .303 sporter would do most everything I needed, and close where I started about 55 years ago - cutting down a No. 1 Mk. 3*

The collection of 6.5 mm, 7 mm, .30 caliber, .35 caliber, .45 caliber rifles in my cabinet are just toys collected along the way.

[Don_Parsons]

The endless burning wood stove is sure nice to wake up to this morning as the coffee is purking

It's nice looking at a the beautiful rifles leaning in the corner as they seem to glinter from the flames from the stove,,, nothing like early morning eye candy. Ha.

My friends old battle scared Remmy semi auto 308,,, Van's rusty barreled 300 Win Mag,,, Bruce's Old Police Special 2 ton tank,,, my plastic junk rifle. The kids won't stack their rifles with ours since they are scared they might get scratched, Ha.

I can't blame them since they worked hard for their monies to buy those super Mags,,, they look pretty Intresting fore sure,,, I was one of those guys in my day,,, the brand new Remington 700 in 300 Weatherby Mag,,, what a dream to shoot,,, those long legs filled alot of freezers over the years,,, some times I feel it in my shoulder once in a while,,, oh well,,, that's the way life is at times.

The stove must be putting out the heat pretty good as I can smell the Aroma of the percolating coffee,,, it looks like our hunting gear is dry,,, I shouldn't forget to mink oil my boots this morning.

I see my friend is checking out the weather forecast this morning,,, He's pretty good at coming up with a game plan for the day,,, it won't be long before he gets up to go out side to make sure the trucks are still there. Nothing like letting the cold fresh air fill the cabin before settling down for the first cup of coffee.

Purhaps it's the drug of choice these days. Ha.
I hope we don't get our ammo mixed up again like yesterday. LOL. What a $4it $4ow that was. Ha

The visiting groups are thinning out over the weeks,,, Old timer and I are heading East in the week when the 25/06's coming in.

The cabin in Northern Ontario is awaiting us. The host family told us to show up at anytime. Ha. We will be packing 6 big cans of coffee on that outing.

This hunting trip North has been well worth the efforts, some times cross threaded, stuck and temporary lost. Ha. That truely adds to the good times in the now and in the days to come.

I hope I remember some of my French as we get things underway up there.

The Big Game battle rifles of rust, scratch, nicks will soon find a new corner to lean against in the next cabin I'm sure.

I hope the endless wood burning stove puts out as much heat as this one does,,, it looks like the coffee is ready,,, good times to those that show up with a rifle in hand no matter what it looks like or shoots.

The only caliber that means any thing up here is the the people them selves. That's what really counts.

[Norwest Alta]

Poetry this early in the am Don? Lol. Good luck on your hunt.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

According to the link that Don Parsons posted and from what I was told a few years back because I was also assuming wrong,it was not designed around the AR10 but the Tubb 2000 which is a bolt action National course rifle .
Cat

And the Tubb2000, is basically a bolt action AR-10.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And the Tubb2000, is basically a bolt action AR-10.

A bolt action AR-10? Laughing!

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Chuck:
Please go re read who I quoted, and what I was quoting.....

You are a bit too willing to fight when there’s no fight......

I’m agreeing. Adding to your point. Etc

[obsessed1]

Chuck.... Can you give me exact proof that your CM has an advantage over any other caliber for hunting???. I personally like the CM. It's a fun caliber. But in my experience there is absolutely NO advantage to the CM over any of my other hunting rifles in various calibers. Where hunting is concerned size, fit,weight of the actual rifle is where the advantage is. A carbine with irons or low powered scope is great for the thick bush hunting and has distinct advantages over a rifle with 26" barrel and 6-24x huskemaw in the deep woods. Hunting open fields and the advantage is different.
There are some cartridges that give certain advantages ie short action / long action...ECT but caliber has no bearing.
In my experience there has never been a hunting situation where I have felt that dang I can't harvest this animal because I'm not shooting a...X.... Caliber rifle.

The CM has advantages in PRS for sure and there's a reason why most PRS guys are shooting it

The CM also has advantages in a military situation and it's about time they incorporated it into service.

But strictly hunting it has no actual advantage over any other rifle other than personal preference.

You can argue merits of the CM all day long but in the end it doesn't do anything that other calibers can't do in a hunting rifle.

The PRS/ long range seems to be trend right now and every one and their uncle are dropping actions into chassis and tacticooling up their rifles and since the CM has certain advantages ( until something else along) in those styles of shooting that's the caliber to get.....
In your weatherby vanguard hunting rifle it has no advantage over 243,7-08,308,270,3006.....

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

Chuck.... Can you give me exact proof that your CM has an advantage over any other caliber for hunting???. I personally like the CM. It's a fun caliber. But in my experience there is absolutely NO advantage to the CM over any of my other hunting rifles in various calibers. Where hunting is concerned size, fit,weight of the actual rifle is where the advantage is. A carbine with irons or low powered scope is great for the thick bush hunting and has distinct advantages over a rifle with 26" barrel and 6-24x huskemaw in the deep woods. Hunting open fields and the advantage is different.
There are some cartridges that give certain advantages ie short action / long action...ECT but caliber has no bearing.
In my experience there has never been a hunting situation where I have felt that dang I can't harvest this animal because I'm not shooting a...X.... Caliber rifle.

The CM has advantages in PRS for sure and there's a reason why most PRS guys are shooting it

The CM also has advantages in a military situation and it's about time they incorporated it into service.

But strictly hunting it has no actual advantage over any other rifle other than personal preference.

You can argue merits of the CM all day long but in the end it doesn't do anything that other calibers can't do in a hunting rifle.

The PRS/ long range seems to be trend right now and every one and their uncle are dropping actions into chassis and tacticooling up their rifles and since the CM has certain advantages ( until something else along) in those styles of shooting that's the caliber to get.....
In your weatherby vanguard hunting rifle it has no advantage over 243,7-08,308,270,3006.....

First, point out where I say it does. Thanks.

[Pathfinder76]

Again,

The CM has more factory ammunition selection than any other 6.5. It has more reloading component and tool selection than any other 6.5, it has more factory rifle selection than any other 6.5, and it has excellent case design. You could also apply the above to 95% of the other cartridges out there as well. Not just 6.5’s.