30 cal???

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Salavee

That wasn't the question ..

It is my question to you. I answered your question.

[Salavee]

..and the reason for your question was ...... ?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Two completely different cartridges at different ends of the spectrum .
Just about as equal as saying the moose is moving through thick tangle at 30 feet And you have a 9-36x on the 10 pound Nosler or irons on the '94!
Cat

Well if we can pick which angle we have to take the shot I just figured we can also pick the cartridge used, seeing how it is a 30cal vs a 7mm.

When I started this thread I used an example of two equal cases, one loaded with a 6.5 and one loaded with a 308, then listed the ballistic data using optimum bullet weights for each caliber and it was clear which caliber had better performance with less recoil.

Apples to apples if the same recoil is factored in, you'll get more performance out of the 6.5 and 7mm than the 30cal.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Salavee

..and the reason for your question was ...... ?

It's a 7mm vs a 30cal, same as your question, which by the way I answered.

You don't want to answer it?

Why not?

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Well if we can pick which angle we have to take the shot I just figured we can also pick the cartridge used, seeing how it is a 30cal vs a 7mm.

When I started this thread I used an example of two equal cases, one loaded with a 6.5 and one loaded with a 308, then listed the ballistic data using optimum bullet weights for each caliber and it was clear which caliber had better performance with less recoil.

Apples to apples if the same recoil is factored in, you'll get more performance out of the 6.5 and 7mm than the 30cal.

I am not about to go out and buy a new rifle just because the figures say one is better than the other
I have never seen a difference in anything I have ever shot or anybody else has shot unless the shot itself was a bad one ,
All animals died the same from elk with a 6.5x47 to moose with a 303anf the big magnums

The only reason I might choose s specific cartridge for a rifle is in a competition rifle where milimeters and recoil will make make the difference in a ten or 15 shot score or where a specific cartridge is mandatory
Cat

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

It's a 7mm vs a 30cal, same as your question, which by the way I answered.

You don't want to answer it?

Why not?

He wants to be the one to control the questions, so that he can tailor the question to provide the answer that supports his position. It's pretty much like the way a government words polls, in an attempt to have people arrive at the answers that they want to hear.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

He wants to be the one to control the questions, so that he can tailor the question to provide the answer that supports his position. It's pretty much like the way a government words polls, in an attempt to have people arrive at the answers that they want to hear.

Humor me Elk .. please answer the question ..please !

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Humor me Elk .. please answer the question ..please !

There is no possible way that I would be carrying a 35 whelen, it's not a cartridge that I would ever consider hunting with. I would be carrying my 7mmstw for big animals. I would drive a 150gr TTSX through the animal, and get my tag on it, and then start the work of dressing it out. And that 150gr TTSX would also work just fine on that elk at 480 yards in the open field that Kurt is asking about. And I would only be using a 150gr TTSX, because my current rifle prefers the 150gr TTSX over the 140gr TTSX.

[Salavee]

and round and round we go ...

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I am not about to go out and buy a new rifle just because the figures say one is better than the other
I have never seen a difference in anything I have ever shot or anybody else has shot unless the shot itself was a bad one ,
All animals died the same from elk with a 6.5x47 to moose with a 303anf the big magnums

The only reason I might choose s specific cartridge for a rifle is in a competition rifle where milimeters and recoil will make make the difference in a ten or 15 shot score or where a specific cartridge is mandatory
Cat

Totally understandable but.......

My point is that with new bullet technology a 6.5 or 7mm bullet will give you 30cal knock down power without 30cal recoil. Nothing more.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Salavee

and round and round we go ...

You STILL haven't answered my question

[gtr]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

With the advancement in bullets these days, particularly in the 6.5 and 7mm catergory, extremely high BC's and controlled expansion, more and more I think the 30cal is becoming obsolete in terms of hunting.

Am I wrong in thinking less is becoming more in terms of modern cartridges?

This is you first post. No mention of recoil that I can see. The apples have gone bad by now, to say the least.
To answer your question, the 30 cal is no more obsolete now, than it was when you first posted. Short answers sometimes are better.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

With the advancement in bullets these days, particularly in the 6.5 and 7mm catergory, extremely high BC's and controlled expansion, more and more I think the 30cal is becoming obsolete in terms of hunting.

Am I wrong in thinking less is becoming more in terms of modern cartridges?

Yes I agree, you are wrong. See, now it has been definitively answered in favour of what you first asked.

Could have saved 161 posts, but what fun would that be.

[RAMPAGE]

Nothing to get a guys day started off right better, than a cup of coffee and reading a 5 page pi$$ing match over 0.024 of an inch.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by gtr

This is you first post. No mention of recoil that I can see. The apples have gone bad by now, to say the least.
To answer your question, the 30 cal is no more obsolete now, than it was when you first posted. Short answers sometimes are better.

Does it matter if it was in my first post or my third?

Facts are facts, and the 6.5 out performs the 308 at equal ft/lbs of recoil. I can tell you're butt hurt by the ballistics I posted, and that's what makes good discussions. Guys have their favorite gun, I understand this but it doesn't change facts.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Yes I agree, you are wrong. See, now it has been definitively answered in favour of what you first asked.

Could have saved 161 posts, but what fun would that be.

You're right, but it's not based on performance, it's based on preference.


I will say this, knowing what I know, experiencing my experiences, and seeing first hand the performance of all three calibers, the 30cal has in fact become obsolete in my safe.

[gtr]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Does it matter if it was in my first post or my third?

Facts are facts, and the 6.5 out performs the 308 at equal ft/lbs of recoil. I can tell you're butt hurt by the ballistics I posted, and that's what makes good discussions. Guys have their favorite gun, I understand this but it doesn't change facts.

No hurt butt here , as not the first time people have seen these ballistics. If that is the deciding factor for you, on what gun you use, that's great. In the forty years of hunting I don't think any animal I shot new what bullet hit him. I shoot 284 Win, and 6.5 MS as well as about 2 dozen others. Obsolete to me means no longer available. Whatever a person likes. Your question has been asked and answered several times, as the question changes, so have the answers.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

You're right, but it's not based on performance, it's based on preference.


I will say this, knowing what I know, experiencing my experiences, and seeing first hand the performance of all three calibers, the 30cal has in fact become obsolete in my safe.

You are completely right again. Preference is the reason you are wrong and have been from the outset. VHS won over Beta, Windows won over Unix, gas BBQs won over Charcoal, all based on preference. THAT is the DEFINITION of obsolescence, not which is better in technical arguments.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by gtr

No hurt butt here , as not the first time people have seen these ballistics. If that is the deciding factor for you, on what gun you use, that's great. In the forty years of hunting I don't think any animal I shot new what bullet hit him. I shoot 284 Win, and 6.5 MS as well as about 2 dozen others. Obsolete to me means no longer available. Whatever a person likes. Your question has been asked and answered several times, as the question changes, so have the answers.

It's -17, moderate wind blowing, light snow. I'm at my cabin sitting in my long johns, drinking coffee looking outside trying to talk myself into going outside and trying out some loads I made up for a ........ .257cal gun I have.

This thread is helping me pass the time while I build up the ambition to go outside and play. I know there is no way the 30cal will ever become obsolete, but it sure is a thought provoking statement!!!

[jkav]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

A bull elk is in the middle of a field, you range it at 480yds, you have a 30-30 and a Nosler 28...... which gun do you use?

These days if I'm carrying a rifle (instead of a bow), it's most likely a Win 94 in .30-30. So on that scenario I'd have to stalk in another 300+ yards, predict where the elk will exit the field, or watch him walk away - which is exactly the challenge I want! As much as I love wild game meat in the freezer, it's the experience of hunting I'm after. I have absolutely no interest in pulling the trigger on an animal that is 480 yards away.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

It's -17, moderate wind blowing, light snow. I'm at my cabin sitting in my long johns, drinking coffee looking outside trying to talk myself into going outside and trying out some loads I made up for a ........ .257cal gun I have.

This thread is helping me pass the time while I build up the ambition to go outside and play. I know there is no way the 30cal will ever become obsolete, but it sure is a thought provoking statement!!!

but you started post 1 by saying

I think the 30cal is becoming obsolete in terms of hunting.

Glad I scrolled to the end to see how this ended

[jkav]

Originally Posted by RAMPAGE

Nothing to get a guys day started off right better, than a cup of coffee and reading a 5 page pi$$ing match over 0.024 of an inch.

Lol.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

but you started post 1 by saying

I think the 30cal is becoming obsolete in terms of hunting.

Glad I scrolled to the end to see how this ended

Do you think we would have hit 6 pages if I didn't?

LOL!!!

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Beeman3

Well Salavee I did take a shot as you describe. It was at a ranged 734 yds with my 300 RUM. Buck was quartered hard. Placed a 215 Berger at the last rib and exited center of off side shoulder. Deer never even blinked was DRT! Devastating performance. I will say there was lots of meat loss. I have never seen anything like it. The 215 Berger is a hammer.

The right tool for the right job. Well done !

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by jkav

These days if I'm carrying a rifle (instead of a bow), it's most likely a Win 94 in .30-30. So on that scenario I'd have to stalk in another 300+ yards, predict where the elk will exit the field, or watch him walk away - which is exactly the challenge I want! As much as I love wild game meat in the freezer, it's the experience of hunting I'm after. I have absolutely no interest in pulling the trigger on an animal that is 480 yards away.

Ya, well you can't alter the scinario, thems da rulz.


I wouldn't aim for a shoulder either, I understand how you feel.

[jkav]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Ya, well you can't alter the scinario, thems da rulz.


I wouldn't aim for a shoulder either, I understand how you feel.

I'm confused - did I alter the scenario?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Salavee

The right tool for the right job. Well done !

A bull elk is in the middle of a field, you range it at 480yds, you have a 30-30 and a Nosler 28...... which gun do you use?



Don't want to answer the question?

How come?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by jkav

I'm confused - did I alter the scenario?

Ya, you snuck in closer.

I was given a scinario and wasn't even allowed to wait for a proper shot angle so you're going to have to answer the question as if there is no other option other than 30-30 or Nosler 28.

[jkav]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Ya, you snuck in closer.

I was given a scinario and wasn't even allowed to wait for a proper shot angle so you're going to have to answer the question as if there is no other option other than 30-30 or Nosler 28.

The scenario you described was what I answered. If you'd like to include other limitations after the fact, have at 'er. This is a silly game and I'm out.

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

It's -17, moderate wind blowing, light snow. I'm at my cabin sitting in my long johns, drinking coffee looking outside trying to talk myself into going outside and trying out some loads I made up for a ........ .257cal gun I have.

This thread is helping me pass the time while I build up the ambition to go outside and play. I know there is no way the 30cal will ever become obsolete, but it sure is a thought provoking statement!!!

Obsolete might have been a bit of a strong word. "Unnecessary" may be more appropriate...