Whats best a bullet that passes through or one that reaches the backside of the hide ???

[rainman]

any new hunters to this site,listen to elkhunter11 ,most any bullet in an ideal situation will work.....when it is less than ideal you want a bullet that will bust through bone....and that means a pass through on a lung shot,if you are hunting in an area where animals bite back .you REALLY want a bullet that busts through bone,,,,,been there

[elkhunter11]

Have you ever been in shock you can do some pretty amazing things when you don't feel the pain.

It's not about pain, it's not about being in shock, it's about not being able to breathe, there is a huge difference. But since you did mention shock, massive bleeding is a common cause, so an animal that has been shot will likely go into shock as it bleeds out.

Besides you can tell which is which. With hydrostatic shock their lungs looks more like a bloody jello mold. With a bullet that just passes through it looks like a hole through the lungs.

Forcing a blunt bullet through the lungs at high speed can cause massive lung damage that doesn't occur when a sharp object passes through the lungs. However, the result is still massive internal bleeding that kills the animal.

most any bullet in an ideal situation will work.....when it is less than ideal you want a bullet that will bust through bone....and that means a pass through on a lung shot,if you are hunting in an area where animals bite back .you REALLY want a bullet that busts through bone,,,,,been there
Reply With Quote

My grizzly was struck in the throat, and the bullet traveled through several feet of bear until it lodged in the rear hip. The second shot broke both front shoulders and the bear collapsed. I was glad to be using a very strongly constructed bullet at the time. Things might not have worked out so well for me, if I had been using Ballistic Tips or Bergers.

[BuckCuller]

Now now don't get you knickers in a knot all I'm saying is hydrostatic shock makes for more visible internal damage. However any well placed shot with a bullet that has enough retention to make it to or through the other side is going to get the job done.BigBearHug:

[Dick284]

I personally prefer to have a good blood trail if need be.
2 holes to leak provides double the opprotunity to have blood spill out of the critter.

Animals with a heavy layer of fat, often will have the entrance wound plug off, and allow little blood to leak out, with these kind of critters, a slightly enlarged exit wound usually provides a pretty decent place for blood to leak out.

[PistonBroke]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

It's not about pain, it's not about being in shock, it's about not being able to breathe, there is a huge difference. But since you did mention shock, massive bleeding is a common cause, so an animal that has been shot will likely go into shock as it bleeds out.



Forcing a blunt bullet through the lungs at high speed can cause massive lung damage that doesn't occur when a sharp object passes through the lungs. However, the result is still massive internal bleeding that kills the animal.



My grizzly was struck in the throat, and the bullet traveled through several feet of bear until it lodged in the rear hip. The second shot broke both front shoulders and the bear collapsed. I was glad to be using a very strongly constructed bullet at the time. Things might not have worked out so well for me, if I had been using Ballistic Tips or Bergers.

and im assuming that bullet was a barnes...?

[elkhunter11]

and im assuming that bullet was a barnes.

You assume wrong, it was a Jensen J-26.

[PistonBroke]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

You assume wrong, it was a Jensen J-26.

jensen hey, i can honestly say i have never heard of them...

[duffy4]

Originally Posted by Dick284

I personally prefer to have a good blood trail if need be.
2 holes to leak provides double the opprotunity to have blood spill out of the critter.

Animals with a heavy layer of fat, often will have the entrance wound plug off, and allow little blood to leak out, with these kind of critters, a slightly enlarged exit wound usually provides a pretty decent place for blood to leak out.

I agree with this view.

I have seen deer shot well with a .243 that died but were difficult to find. (and one buck was not found for a couple days) Because of no or virtually no blood trail.

I have shot deer pooly but there was a good blood trail and I could follow it up and give it a killing shot.

Obviously one doesn't want too stout a bullet that flies on through without doing extensive internal damage and makes an exit wound. I have shot deer with stout 250 grain bullets from a .35 whelen. The "hole" was right through the deer but the deer was less damaged than one shot with a .243 and a 100 grain bullet.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The absolute optimum bullet performance would be a bullet that makes a large wound channel , and then has just enough energy to exit.

X2......just an exit or just in the off-side hide are my favorites....BUT it is really hard to know if it was "just" an exit

This is how I like it....

Results.....

Notice bullet.....



Notice bullet removed....



LC

[PistonBroke]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

X2......just an exit or just in the off-side hide are my favorites....BUT it is really hard to know if it was "just" an exit



LC

ya i agree with you here LC...i like them just inside the hide myself as well...

[PistonBroke]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

X2......just an exit or just in the off-side hide are my favorites....BUT it is really hard to know if it was "just" an exit

This is how I like it....

Results.....

Notice bullet.....



Notice bullet removed....



LC

what kind of animal is that and is that a barnes bullet...?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Something to keep in mind....

One of the main reasons that the copper solids are used over in Africa is that the PH's want to ALWAYS HAVE AN EXIT....that way they can get their trackers on a animal if they are not able to recover it quickly....most places will make you pay for an animal whether you recover it or not. So if you shoot a zebra and they know you hit it and you do not recover it.....you pay for a zebra.

One of the highest chances of having an exit on an animal is to shoot a monometal solid design.....that expands to 1.5-2.0 times the starting diameter and punches right through....whether you hit bone of not.

I have killed many NA game with cup and core bullets....some exited and some didn't. I have had some "bang flops" and I have had some animals continue to try and get away.

Each shot from a rifle is a "beast unto its own"....meaning it is darn near impossible to take the same shot 2 times in a row and either expect the exact same results or observe the exact same results.....too many factors determine what that bullet and animal is going to do.

Heck my father pointed out to me one time that depending on whether an animal is inhaling or exhaling it can effect where the internal organs are placed in the chest cavity.....as the diaphram moves and the lungs fill or empty things move forward and back....you never see this in the field (animals breathing) but we have done "autopsies" on game and seen some neat results that you would not expect from a shot placement....

LC

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by PistonBroke

what kind of animal is that and is that a barnes bullet...?

Whitetail doe shot at a hard quartering to angle from about ~250 yards with a 90gr ballistic tip shot out of a .240WBY with a muzzle velocity of around 3300-3350fps.

Bullet entered midline between the front shoulder blade and the neck, struck one lung....the heart....part of the other lung and ended up in the offside hide just in front of the flank, just pierced the diaphram and into the gut slightly.... if I recall correctly.

Deer turned and wheel and piled up under a spruce tree 15 yards from POI.

LC

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Something to keep in mind....

One of the main reasons that the copper solids are used over in Africa is that the PH's want to ALWAYS HAVE AN EXIT....that way they can get their trackers on a animal if they are not able to recover it quickly....most places will make you pay for an animal whether you recover it or not. So if you shoot a zebra and they know you hit it and you do not recover it.....you pay for a zebra.

One of the highest chances of having an exit on an animal is to shoot a monometal solid design.....that expands to 1.5-2.0 times the starting diameter and punches right through....whether you hit bone of not.

I have killed many NA game with cup and core bullets....some exited and some didn't. I have had some "bang flops" and I have had some animals continue to try and get away.

Each shot from a rifle is a "beast unto its own"....meaning it is darn near impossible to take the same shot 2 times in a row and either expect the exact same results or observe the exact same results.....too many factors determine what that bullet and animal is going to do.

Heck my father pointed out to me one time that depending on whether an animal is inhaling or exhaling it can effect where the internal organs are placed in the chest cavity.....as the diaphram moves and the lungs fill or empty things move forward and back....you never see this in the field (animals breathing) but we have done "autopsies" on game and seen some neat results that you would not expect from a shot placement....

LC

Lefty thanks for that bit of fantastic info. I would like to see more of that kind of info on these threads. I never ever thought of the internal organs moving with the diaphram. Thanks again.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

Lefty thanks for that bit of fantastic info. I would like to see more of that kind of info on these threads. I never ever thought of the internal organs moving with the diaphram. Thanks again.

On an inhale the diaphram moves backwards as the lungs fill....on exhale it moves forward. All the gushy parts in side will move slightly as well.

I don't think it is anything to be stuck on....more something to consider....just remember if you think you nailed a shot and you find some gut in the chest cavity when you are dressing the animal....this could be the cause

LC

[PistonBroke]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Something to keep in mind....

One of the main reasons that the copper solids are used over in Africa is that the PH's want to ALWAYS HAVE AN EXIT....that way they can get their trackers on a animal if they are not able to recover it quickly....most places will make you pay for an animal whether you recover it or not. So if you shoot a zebra and they know you hit it and you do not recover it.....you pay for a zebra.

One of the highest chances of having an exit on an animal is to shoot a monometal solid design.....that expands to 1.5-2.0 times the starting diameter and punches right through....whether you hit bone of not.

I have killed many NA game with cup and core bullets....some exited and some didn't. I have had some "bang flops" and I have had some animals continue to try and get away.

Each shot from a rifle is a "beast unto its own"....meaning it is darn near impossible to take the same shot 2 times in a row and either expect the exact same results or observe the exact same results.....too many factors determine what that bullet and animal is going to do.

Heck my father pointed out to me one time that depending on whether an animal is inhaling or exhaling it can effect where the internal organs are placed in the chest cavity.....as the diaphram moves and the lungs fill or empty things move forward and back....you never see this in the field (animals breathing) but we have done "autopsies" on game and seen some neat results that you would not expect from a shot placement....

LC

autopsy like what , im interested in hearing..

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by PistonBroke

autopsy like what , im interested in hearing..

Read my post above....to add one time Dad shot a small doe with his 7mm Mag. Was good shot placement....but when we went to field dress it there was gut all in the chest cavity....only way we figured that could have happened was the animal must have been on a full exhale when the bullet struck....or somehow the bullet strike sucked the guts into the chest

LC

[BuckCuller]

I have with my bow right after she had a big helping of alfalfa all night she was full and I swear I smoked boiler room only until I gutted her.

[martinbns]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The absolute optimum bullet performance would be a bullet that makes a large wound channel , and then has just enough energy to exit.

Barnes TSX does exactly that, lots of internal damage and two holes for the blood and air to exit.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

On an inhale the diaphram moves backwards as the lungs fill....on exhale it moves forward. All the gushy parts in side will move slightly as well.

I know a guy that got a moose with a pellet gun like that. When he put his head under water to eat he shot him in the nuts and the moose drowned when he sucked in all of that water. The pellet was a hollow point.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I know a guy that got a moose with a pellet gun like that. When he put his head under water to eat he shot him in the nuts and the moose drowned when he sucked in all of that water. The pellet was a hollow point.

LOL...So...its not the size of the projectile....it is where you put it! Is that the moral of the story?

LC

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

LOL...So...its not the size of the projectile....it is where you put it! Is that the moral of the story?

LC

Shot placement is everything.

[bdub]

But I like them. They may be dead but the pass thru lets you find them easier.

[SHORTMAG]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

You assume wrong, it was a Jensen J-26.

[odsixer]

Originally Posted by martinbns

Barnes TSX does exactly that, lots of internal damage and two holes for the blood and air to exit.

+1 Barnes bullets are simply devastating in my opinion, every good hit I've had with a Barnes behind a 30/06 have been DRT.(On Deer only, I have yet to take an Elk or Moose with one).

[shortaction]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Unless the bullet badly damages the central nervous system,animals die because they bleed out. Good luck killing an elk or moose, or worse yet, a charging grizzly, via hydrostatic shock with your 270WSM. My favorite hunting bullets, the Barnes TSX/TTSX almost always exit, yet they kill as fast as any hunting bullet that I have ever used. A bullet designed to expand rapidly, but not to exit, doesn't always penetrate enough on larger game if heavy bone is struck.

Bang on!

I shot a 2 yr old bull moose last year at about 60 yds with a 300 WSM and 180 gr Accubonds. 1st shot he was walking broadside and I hit him through the lungs and he broke into a trot and I hit him again through the lungs. I was pretty certain both hits where good but he didn't show any signs at all other than picking up speed and he was heading towards some tough terrain so I put the 3rd one into the top of his shoulders and that put him down instantly. It all happen quickly and the bull only travelled about 40-60 yds during the 3 shots. Upon skinning it both bullets through the lungs where under the hide on the off side.

My point is that hydrostatic shock didn't provide any advantage in this situation and I really would prefer to use a tougher bullet that I have confidence to penetrate the vitals from poor angles.

[Cowtown guy]

The whole hydrostatic shock thing is extremely misleading. The vast majority of this shock is created very shortly after the bullet enters the animal. The reality is that every animal experiences that shock. Watch the video of the barnes bullets ripping into the gelatin...
http://www.barnesbullets.com/videos/...V9_640x480.wmv
Is there any doubt that there is shock present? Hell no. Does it kill the animal? Hell no. It "temporarily" displaces tissue. What kills the animal is the massive trauma that the bullet causes. Without the trauma there is just a bunch of bruising that will hurt like the dickens. Maybe in a few hours or days that bruising would result in death but it would again be because the animal bleeds out.
I will take 2 exit holes every time. I have had 3 BT's fail to provide penetration for me. All were on deer. 2 out of a .257 Roberts and 1 from a .243 Win. Never again will I trust them. I may try the Bergers as they tend to open after being inside the animal a few inches.

[303carbine]

Over the past 40 years or so, I have shot many big critters where the bullet passed through, just as many did not.
If both lungs have a hole in them, then it's not long to wait for the steaks on the bbq.
So, for me, I have no preference.

[gitrdun]

With all of the uncertainty that this thread had bestowed upon me, I think that I'm gonna take up scrapbooking, the ladies in the neighbourhood are big on that. I have guns for sale.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

With all of the uncertainty that this thread had bestowed upon me, I think that I'm gonna take up scrapbooking, the ladies in the neighbourhood are big on that. I have guns for sale.

sounds good...LOL...where do I sign up???......