unloading snowmobiles at lake

[r-von]

Just curious what the norm is when it comes to taking your snowmobile/sxs/quad out ice fishing. Do guys just unload right at the launch and then go find someplace to park the truck and trailer or park the truck and trailer and ride to the lake? Has anyone gotten in sh!t for driving their machine from the trailer to the lake within a reasonable distance?

[pikeman06]

No but I've had some spectacular wrecks loading my sled after a day of fishing on lakes like gull with rock hard piles of snow that you have to climb then slam into the back of your truck. Most store bought ramps don't work with sleds with carbide runners on the skis for pickup trucks they bite hard and you have a big wreck. If you got a trailer you are fine just park out of the way and stick around to see how I load up so you appreciate your gear that much more. Just my two cents.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Just send it bud.

[nast70]

There are some regulations regarding atv/utv use in provincial parks. You can use your atv/utv on the ice, but not in the park, which includes the launch.
CO's at Cross, Carson and Long are particularly sticky about it.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by nast70

There are some regulations regarding atv/utv use in provincial parks. You can use your atv/utv on the ice, but not in the park, which includes the launch.
CO's at Cross, Carson and Long are particularly sticky about it.

And cold lake provincial park too so unload on the ice and park truck at parking lot.....will save you a fine for operating a sled, quad etc in a provincial park....don't play stupid and then try to fight the ticketit's black and white....use ramps as there are various types to a accomodate a sled.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by nast70

There are some regulations regarding atv/utv use in provincial parks. You can use your atv/utv on the ice, but not in the park, which includes the launch.
CO's at Cross, Carson and Long are particularly sticky about it.

As you say, depends on the park...

No off-highway-vehicles permitted on Beaver Mines Lake.

[RavYak]

I believe how it works is that if the park encompasses the lake then the lake itself also falls under park rules such as kananaskis and spray etc. If the park is a small portion along the shore line like Cold Lake then only not allowed in the park land and fine on the ice.

Each lake depending on its location etc can be different so can’t really answer this question definitively. Research the lake you want to fish or phone and ask a CO.

[lromanchuk]

I find it ridiculous. A few years back at Cold Lake I unloaded my sled in the parking lot 150 metres from the lake and rode the sled, cargo sled and gear down from there to the lake. A CO officer informed me thats a ticket, for several hundred dollars. He informed me I should be driving my truck and trailer on to the ice and unload my stuff there. I told him the reason I spent thousands of dollars on a sled and trailer to haul it around is to keep my truck OFF the ice. This particular year it was very mild at the end of the season and ice conditions were not safe for a truck and trailer. So i'm expected to risk my truck and trailer and the costs of removing them from the lake if they break through instead of riding 150 metres down from the parking lot? Absolutely ridiculous.

I understand if guys are ripping around PP roads on their machines like jack asses that tickets should be issued. But I would suspect a CO has the sense to understand a guy driving from the staging area to the lake is just trying to be safe.

[rasbok]

Pretty sad when you can’t unload in the parking lot and go directly onto the ice. If I trusted the ice I wouldn’t bring my sled and I would just drive out.

[-JR-]

At Cold Lake two year ago the fish cop told me he was leaving the tickets on the truck in the Prov parking lot because he could see in the snow that the sleds were being removed in the parking lot from that truck.
He said years ago they did allow it .But that one odd guy would always take his machine up the road and before you knew it every other person did also .
So they said no more.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by -JR-

At Cold Lake two year ago the fish cop told me he was leaving the tickets on the truck in the Prov parking lot because he could see in the snow that the sleds were being removed in the parking lot from that truck.
He said years ago they did allow it .But that one odd guy would always take his machine up the road and before you knew it every other person did also .
So they said no more.

And a good thing because they then drive on the cross country groomed trails and wreck it for others.....just a few make it so hard on others.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by lromanchuk

I find it ridiculous. A few years back at Cold Lake I unloaded my sled in the parking lot 150 metres from the lake and rode the sled, cargo sled and gear down from there to the lake. A CO officer informed me thats a ticket, for several hundred dollars. He informed me I should be driving my truck and trailer on to the ice and unload my stuff there. I told him the reason I spent thousands of dollars on a sled and trailer to haul it around is to keep my truck OFF the ice. This particular year it was very mild at the end of the season and ice conditions were not safe for a truck and trailer. So i'm expected to risk my truck and trailer and the costs of removing them from the lake if they break through instead of riding 150 metres down from the parking lot? Absolutely ridiculous.

I understand if guys are ripping around PP roads on their machines like jack asses that tickets should be issued. But I would suspect a CO has the sense to understand a guy driving from the staging area to the lake is just trying to be safe.

I fined it ridiculous too but then they would have to have a parking lot cop,to ensure all obeyed the direct from parking lot to lake rule....unfortunately they do not have the manpower to babysit and it's only a matter of time before some hammerhead abuses the law/reg hence why we are in the state we are in now.

Ice is thick enough to drive out on French Bay Area, unload, go park then enjoy the day on the water.

[raw outdoors]

Originally Posted by CNP

As you say, depends on the park...

No off-highway-vehicles permitted on Beaver Mines Lake.

Do you have a link to the law saying you can’t atv on the ice on beaver mines?
It’s kinda like spray lake knowbody does it but knowbody can find the law in paper anywhere.

[Joe Black]

And I though all water is technically federal jurisdiction (except dugouts, et). So not sure how it all works.

Another point is on ice(lake) FC ask for liscence and insurance for snowmobiles/quads. How does that work? They don’t for boats, or at least I haven’t been asked?

Kinda gray. I’m wondering if they are overstepping their authority at times on ice.

[raw outdoors]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

And I though all water is technically federal jurisdiction (except dugouts, et). So not sure how it all works.

Another point is on ice(lake) FC ask for liscence and insurance for snowmobiles/quads. How does that work? They don’t for boats, or at least I haven’t been asked?

Kinda gray. I’m wondering if they are overstepping their authority at times on ice.

I believe they over step all the time weather they even know they are in the wrong or not, the old cranky fish and wildlife officer gives jimbob a ticket for unloading his quad on land at a boat launch or on the ice with no registration on his atv to go out ice fishing. The rookie C.O. That riding along sees that and now when he is on his own he starts giving guys tickets and asking for whatever he wants. Meanwhile jimbob can’t afford the time off work and a lawyer to look up the law, As it’s cheaper to just pay the ticket they go on doing whatever.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by raw outdoors

Do you have a link to the law saying you can’t atv on the ice on beaver mines?
It’s kinda like spray lake knowbody does it but knowbody can find the law in paper anywhere.

Beaver Mines Lake is completely surrounded by the Provincial Park. The regulations indicate that OHV's may only be used on designated trails. You can get this information off of the AB Parks website. Vehicles of any kind, be they highway or off highway vehicles, they are not permitted on the lake. Below is a quote from an email I received from Alberta Parks.

Snowmobiling is not a permitted activity anywhere at Beaver Mines lake. Winter activities at that site are limited to non-motorized recreation like ice-fishing, snow-shoeing or cross-country skiing. Beaver Mines lake is part of the Castle Provincial Park and while in Castle PP, snowmobiles, and other off-highway vehicles, must stay on designated trails.

I’ve attached a pdf of the new Winter Guide for Castle Parks. I don’t think any have been printed yet, but you can inquire at the Pincher Creek Office to see if they have any in printed form.

I hope this is helpful
Alberta Parks

[raw outdoors]

Originally Posted by CNP

Beaver Mines Lake is completely surrounded by the Provincial Park. The regulations indicate that OHV's may only be used on designated trails. You can get this information off of the AB Parks website. Vehicles of any kind, be they highway or off highway vehicles, they are not permitted on the lake. Below is a quote from an email I received from Alberta Parks.

That email is all fine and dandy but if it is not written on the queens printer on paper how could they give you a fine?

It’s crazy these days how everyone just takes peoples word as the law and gospel.
Marry me phony sends you an email saying you can’t do something and your just put your hands in your pockets and walk away. Where is the actual law?

[huntsfurfish]

[CNP]

Originally Posted by raw outdoors

That email is all fine and dandy but if it is not written on the queens printer on paper how could they give you a fine?

It’s crazy these days how everyone just takes peoples word as the law and gospel.
Marry me phony sends you an email saying you can’t do something and your just put your hands in your pockets and walk away. Where is the actual law?

It isn't a phony email. The law is: OHV's on designated trails only in Castle PP. You can find that on the "Queens Printer" lol. That is enough for CO's to issue tickets and a Judge to throw out any presumption of innocence claim. I'm not a guy to call RAP without at least engaging they guy who I believe to be doing wrong. Anybody on a lake in the winter, riding on a motor where it is prohibited, is going to have a conversation with me and maybe a CO if he's an azz. I told you where to find the law...………….Alberta Parks website...……..which is backed by http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Regs/1985_102.pdf

[raw outdoors]

I will buy a snickers to the AO member that finds the link to the actual law
stating “ no OHVs permitted on the ice of beaver mines lake “
Is there a sighn out there on the water edge.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by raw outdoors

I will buy a snickers to the AO member that finds the link to the actual law
stating “ no OHVs permitted on the ice of beaver mines lake “
Is there a sighn out there on the water edge.

The sign you are looking for does not exist. It would be beneficial if there were one, I agree. But there doesn't have to be a sign because of the fact it's already written into the regulations that OHV's are permitted on designated trails only.


I'm just relaying what I have discovered after doing some research on the subject.

[Joe Black]

So I’ll rephrase my question. Does alberta parks(in this case) have jurisdiction on the surface of federal property(lakes)? In the other scenario, does alberta environment have the right to ask for liscensce and proof of insurance on the surface of a federal property? The rule of liscence and insurance is for alberta crown land.

And if so, I would like to see the exact law stating that, if anyone can post.

Yes, they have for all land travel in the park.(castle PP)

Would make an interesting court case.

[hellitsme]

I have been told by a CO that on Beauvais Lake which is a few miles from Beaver mines that you can park in the parking lot and and drive a ATV onto the lake just no screwing around. In my mind it is not different then a boat.

[Half Pickereled]

Carson lake has what sounds like the same situation as Beaver. At Carson we were out on the ice and had started a small fire, doing some fishing and sledding. Me and the mistress were approached by a CO (also on a skidoo) on the ice beside the truck and skidoo trailer as to what we were doing with them in the park. I said we are fishing and sledding lol. He said it’s not allowed in the park. I replied that the local snowmobile club trails actually cross the lake through the park (Golden Triangle) so how does that apply? He said I was right, so to reestablish ego he wanted to see our registration and insurance. Well the wife’s sled registration had lapsed so he said to load it up or she’s getting a ticket, and to stick to the lake and trails only with mine and he carried on. Justice restored.

[PlayDoh]

This might help. I don’t know personally and can’t find anything specific to on froze waterbodies.

“It's the Law

Ride on approved trails only

Keep wheels out of streams, rivers, and lakes

Wheeled or tracked vehicles are not allowed on beds or shores of watercourses, wetlands or waterbodies

Driving in these areas produces harmful ruts and erosion problems. In addition, fine sediments stirred up by tires are harmful to fish. See:
Know B4 U Go: ATV's and Water Don't Mix
Keep Wheels Out of Water– Aug 2016 (1 page, 21.0 MB)

Take garbage with you - leave nothing behind

Prevent start of a wildfire - keep your machine free of debris

Limit your stay to 14 days

Be sure your OHV is compliant. The unit must:
Be registered
Be insured
Have a licence plate
Have a head-light and tail-light
Have an approved muffler.

http://aep.alberta.ca/recreation-pub...motorized.aspx

When something falls into a grey area where there isn’t any specific written law on the matter, I’m sure it would ultimately fall to the discretion of a judge. And if your standing before one of them, you might regret the act that got you there.

I’m sure the day will come where nothing motorized will be allowed on the ice. Yet hopefully by then we can use our drones to fly us out, lol.

As to unloading, if driving on the ice was a concern, you could technically unload right where the land meets the ice. You’d probably be blocking access, but you wouldn’t be ticketable.

[Diploneis]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

So I’ll rephrase my question. Does alberta parks(in this case) have jurisdiction on the surface of federal property(lakes)? In the other scenario, does alberta environment have the right to ask for liscensce and proof of insurance on the surface of a federal property? The rule of liscence and insurance is for alberta crown land.

And if so, I would like to see the exact law stating that, if anyone can post.

Yes, they have for all land travel in the park.(castle PP)

Would make an interesting court case.

Just to provide a little clarification - Alberta's lakes generally fall under provincial jurisdiction (Public Lands Act [bed and shore], Water Act, and, depending on circumstances, Environmental Protection and Enhancement Act). The federal government has some jurisdiction through the Fisheries Act and the Navigable Waters Protection Act, but this tends to be exercised infrequently and under very specific circumstances.

[THLTD]

I went to BM for the first time last winter and took my quad on a trailer. Just as you enter the cattle guard at the parking lot there is a sign indicating no quads or OHV. So I too felt that this was for in the park but shouldn't include the lake....However not wanting to get a ticket I din't unload it and walked out. That afternoon the officer showed up and checked our fishing licenses and ask why I had the quad with me. I explained I was going to use it to get to the lake but wasn't confident of the exact rules. He indicated that they are prohibited from being used on the lake and the park....Ok I asked him if I could use it on the water at the Oldman Dam and he couldn't answer that for me.
Does anyone know if you can take OHV out on the Oldman? I know it can be sketchy ice and you need to be careful but in late Feb and March last year there was a good 2-3 ft of ice anywhere we went. The other thing about the Oldman none of the summer day use areas are open in the winter to at least get close to the water to shorten the walk a bit. No sure what the theory behind having day use parks but closed in the winter. Maybe just so they don't have to do road maintenance? The fishing was pretty good for lakers when we did go.