load development- does brass make a difference?

[duceman]

so further to my powder testing in my rem 700 hb, i expanded on the rl7. i happen to have 7lbs of one lot on hand, and 500 of these sierra bullets,(not the same lot)
ran 5 groups through, from 20.6 to 21.4 grains, 5 of each.
all loads were with rem 7 1/2 primers, 52 sierra hp's, and norma br brass; or so i thought.
conditions were decent, temp at -2, just enough breeze to see tall grass move and wiggle paper at the target.
things went normal till i got to the last group, 21.4, and i could see that things were tightening up as i gained in charge weight. i put the first three into the same hole, but on chambering my 4th shot, the bolt didn't feel the same. it dropped closed like it was fl sized , but i had neck sized all the brass.
i said to myself, i should run up and snap a pic of that group, i know this one's going out!
sure as sheet, it jumps over an inch and up a quarter inch!
when i ejected the brass and inspected it, i noticed it was regular norma brass, not marked 'br' like the rest.
also note the fifth shot in the pic, i used the last of a 110 pack of rem primers, and rather than open a new one, i put a left over wolf primer in from my br loading beforehand.
so, i will start at at 21.4 again, and go to max for pressure. stay tuned for the next batch of targets.
ps. - i have 240 rounds through since my last cleaning, think i should clean? haha, lee

[wwbirds]

Groups could get better if you shoot right side up??
Rob

[Cowtown guy]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

Groups could get better if you shoot right side up??
Rob

Ha! Thinking the same thing.

[Faststeel]

DM

I have shot a bunch of reloder 7 in the last couple of years but only with 40gr Vmax bullets. The original load was with FL sized brass and CCI 450 mag primer with 21.5gr of reloder7. Brass I was using is Lakecity. I tried a few variations with neck sized brass and small rifle primers and a bunch of different load weights and never got anything nearly as tight as with the 450 primer. As soon as I went back to the 450 primers the neck sized brass seem to shoot to the exact point of impact as the FL cases were from the original load. So it will be 450 primers for me.
The newest powder I have been working with is Vhit 133 and the 50gr TNT bullet. A number of fellows on 6mmbr like this combination up to 23gr. my best was 22.8 so far. FS

[duceman]

i seen good preliminary results with 133 as well; i'm scared to work up a load cuz i only got 1 can; and that chit's expensive! lee

[Fer-Tak-Er]

Funny thing one time. I was over at the local sports store here in town. Looking for some brass for the 270. He had a bag of remington brass, and a box of hornady brass. The hornady brass was @ $10-$15 more. So I asked him why so much more. The guy at the counter says,"well its hornady".I asked " So tell me the difference" He says again "It's hornady". I asked him for the benefits,pros/cons. He had nothing to say but "it's hornady". I bought the remington brass. Anyone out there know what the difference is supposed to be besides it coming in a box, and not a bag?

Sorry not trying to hijack the post. Thread said does brass make a difference.

[wwbirds]

Never used the boxed hornady brass but had to buy nosler custom once and it was a lot more but the packaging said it was weighed formed and primed in the box. Assuming the weighing makes that batch more consistent.
I use a lot of remington brass in the bags as well and find a lot of the bagged brass has to be run through the dies just to straighten out the necks and cases that are out of round.

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by Fer-Tak-Er

Funny thing one time. I was over at the local sports store here in town. Looking for some brass for the 270. He had a bag of remington brass, and a box of hornady brass. The hornady brass was @ $10-$15 more. So I asked him why so much more. The guy at the counter says,"well its hornady".I asked " So tell me the difference" He says again "It's hornady". I asked him for the benefits,pros/cons. He had nothing to say but "it's hornady". I bought the remington brass. Anyone out there know what the difference is supposed to be besides it coming in a box, and not a bag?

Sorry not trying to hijack the post. Thread said does brass make a difference.

270 Win
Features:
Tight Wall Concentricity
Concentricity helps to ensure proper bullet seating in both the case and the chamber of your firearm. Higher concentricity also aids in a uniform release of the bullet on firing, for optimal velocity and accuracy.
Uniform Case Wall Thickness
Benchrest shooters have long known that uniform case wall thickness is vital to accuracy. We manufacture to extremely tight tolerances to ensure this critical element is as consistent as possible.
More Reloads per Case
We treat Hornady brass as the foundation for an accurate cartridge, not a commodity. Because we take greater care in its creation you’ll get more reloads from Hornady brass.
Consistent Weight and Capacity
Every single Hornady case, regardless of the lot in which it was produced, is virtually identical to other Hornady cases in the same caliber. For you, this means consistent pressures, velocity and accuracy — every time.




This from the hornady website, I have purchased some and it seems to meet what they have said, so you are paying for consistency.

[duceman]

i'd take rem over hornady brass any day. except for my precision guns, i try hard to use rp brass. then federal, then win. i do use a fair bit of win, but only because it was there or came with a gun or a package of stuff; never go searching for it, way too much qc problems for me.
my high volume gopher loads use wsr, but i keep about 10,000 450's on hand for the br's, will have to try some in the duce, lee.

[duceman]

Originally Posted by purgatory.sv

270 Win
Features:
Tight Wall Concentricity
Concentricity helps to ensure proper bullet seating in both the case and the chamber of your firearm. Higher concentricity also aids in a uniform release of the bullet on firing, for optimal velocity and accuracy.
Uniform Case Wall Thickness
Benchrest shooters have long known that uniform case wall thickness is vital to accuracy. We manufacture to extremely tight tolerances to ensure this critical element is as consistent as possible.
More Reloads per Case
We treat Hornady brass as the foundation for an accurate cartridge, not a commodity. Because we take greater care in its creation you’ll get more reloads from Hornady brass.
Consistent Weight and Capacity
Every single Hornady case, regardless of the lot in which it was produced, is virtually identical to other Hornady cases in the same caliber. For you, this means consistent pressures, velocity and accuracy — every time.




This from the hornady website, I have purchased some and it seems to meet what they have said, so you are paying for consistency.

before i paid for hornady, i'd add a few more pennies and go lapua, lee

[elkhunter11]

I use Lapua brass if it is available for the particular cartridge, and my second choice is usually Remington brass. I haven't been overly impressed with Hornady brass.

[Fer-Tak-Er]

Originally Posted by purgatory.sv

270 Win
Features:
Tight Wall Concentricity
Concentricity helps to ensure proper bullet seating in both the case and the chamber of your firearm. Higher concentricity also aids in a uniform release of the bullet on firing, for optimal velocity and accuracy.
Uniform Case Wall Thickness
Benchrest shooters have long known that uniform case wall thickness is vital to accuracy. We manufacture to extremely tight tolerances to ensure this critical element is as consistent as possible.
More Reloads per Case
We treat Hornady brass as the foundation for an accurate cartridge, not a commodity. Because we take greater care in its creation you’ll get more reloads from Hornady brass.
Consistent Weight and Capacity
Every single Hornady case, regardless of the lot in which it was produced, is virtually identical to other Hornady cases in the same caliber. For you, this means consistent pressures, velocity and accuracy — every time.




This from the hornady website, I have purchased some and it seems to meet what they have said, so you are paying for consistency.

Well.....Put that way, I may have purchased the hornady stuff. Just goes to show you how educated some of the people on the other side of the counter are. Thanks for puting that on here.

[Hotwheels81]

The smaller the case the more sensitive to volume they become...

For .223 Remington match ammo I weigh charges to .1gr or less and start with neck turned FL sized brass with uniformed primer pockets and Varget or H4895 and CCI BR2's, when I find a case that opens the group up I flatten it and toss in the bin.

Brass makes no difference as long as its internal capacity is the same... Life span of the case and initial quality is what your paying for, I know folks who pay $1 a case and then spend 4hrs prepping it and sorting it into lots.

[duceman]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

Groups could get better if you shoot right side up??
Rob

not sure how that happend, or how to fix it!

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by duceman

before i paid for hornady, i'd add a few more pennies and go lapua, lee

I agree, I have been having good results with Remington, in most cases it seems to have more mass, but when I can’t find what I want I take what they have.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by duceman

not sure how that happend, or how to fix it!

Gravity sure works wonders out Blackie way....

[DaleJ]

Gosh! Had trouble shooting on my belly, never thought bout shooting on my back.

[bulletman]

I use mainly Remington brass, except in the .257 WBY, which is Nosler! For some reason in the .300 Win.Mag. I'm losing 150 fps with the Remington brass. I find the Remington lasts longer and seems to be softer in the neck area and doesn't get nearly as brittle as Winchester. Federal in the magnum calibre's seems to have looser primer pockets quicker than the others. Mainly Remington here!

[DaleJ]

Lee, break out the good stuff. All my deuces love IMR 4895. For the 52 gr Speer 23 gr, F205M, Remington brass, for the 53 gr Sierra 24 gr IMR 4895 works great. N-133 with Lapua brass blanked a primer and wrecked a custom 4 lever trigger in a sleeved Rem M 600.

[TrollGRG]

I don't know the difference between the different brands but I do know that you would be more consistant if you used only one type.

I found that, in my used .06 casings, remington would have a different volume than say a WW casing. We are only talking small amounts but when you are measuring down to 1/10 gr it can make a difference.

Also, neck resizing will give you a different volume than full length resizing even with the same brass maker.

[silver]

Originally Posted by duceman

so further to my powder testing in my rem 700 hb, i expanded on the rl7. i happen to have 7lbs of one lot on hand, and 500 of these sierra bullets,(not the same lot)
ran 5 groups through, from 20.6 to 21.4 grains, 5 of each.
all loads were with rem 7 1/2 primers, 52 sierra hp's, and norma br brass; or so i thought.
conditions were decent, temp at -2, just enough breeze to see tall grass move and wiggle paper at the target.
things went normal till i got to the last group, 21.4, and i could see that things were tightening up as i gained in charge weight. i put the first three into the same hole, but on chambering my 4th shot, the bolt didn't feel the same. it dropped closed like it was fl sized , but i had neck sized all the brass.
i said to myself, i should run up and snap a pic of that group, i know this one's going out!
sure as sheet, it jumps over an inch and up a quarter inch!
when i ejected the brass and inspected it, i noticed it was regular norma brass, not marked 'br' like the rest.
also note the fifth shot in the pic, i used the last of a 110 pack of rem primers, and rather than open a new one, i put a left over wolf primer in from my br loading beforehand.
so, i will start at at 21.4 again, and go to max for pressure. stay tuned for the next batch of targets.
ps. - i have 240 rounds through since my last cleaning, think i should clean? haha, lee

Just as a point of curiosity, did you weigh the brass?

[Traps]

I'll find out in a few days, lapua brass is showing up.

[duceman]

no, i haven't weighed any brass. i did try sorting bullets by weight for fun once, waste of time.
i had some lapua, my sako really liked it, but this norma br really outperformed it in this rem. sometimes you get lucky and hit a good load out of the gate too, lee

[Lefty-Canuck]

I weighed my lapua brass for the 260rem just to see. It was quite consistent...all brass fell within a 2.5gr variation with 90% within 1 grain. I think that's fairly consistent.

LC

[silver]

Originally Posted by duceman

no, i haven't weighed any brass. i did try sorting bullets by weight for fun once, waste of time.
i had some lapua, my sako really liked it, but this norma br really outperformed it in this rem. sometimes you get lucky and hit a good load out of the gate too, lee

I guess what I was looking at is the difference in weight between the brass of the group with the flyer.

[duceman]

i see what your saying silver. i never checked, i think it had more to do with it actually being a different case, and different sizing procedure.
just put a verification load together with all the same components this time, and trying some 450's as well, lee

[bigshell]

I tried Hornady brass in my /06 and wasn't impressed as I found it quite brittle and encountered neck splitting after just a few loadings,but maybe I just had a bad batch?
I've gone to Remington brass in the /06 since and so far so good.

[Backwoods Runner]

Since you have so much powder and time Lee, why dont you try a contolled test with the same mixed batch and see if you get same results. I tried it once while frustated with a certain load and I couldn't duplicate the bad group. Could of been me and I know you shoot better than me; if your head does'nt swell up to much after reading this.

Try loading that same 5 rounds and see if you get similar results.

We always try for perfection, let's try for a bad group. You may be suprised at the result!

Let us know Lee.