crossbow season?

Bow hunting season should to open to all hunters hunting with equipment that makes them eligible for P&Y, that's my bottom line.

And they blame non registererd user's for stirring the pot.:\

I think you are not understanding Rock's comment. P&Y has a set of rules and definitions as to WHAT QUALIFIES AS A BOW AND ARROW. It is my understanding that Rocks figures Alberta F&W should just use the same definition for "weapons" to be used in an Archery season.

Now there is some additional Crossbow hunting opportunity outside the regular rifle season.
1. In the Special Camp Wainwright Primative weapons season you can use a bow, a cross bow or a muzzleloader.

2. in the county of Strathcona deer season you can use a bow, a crossbow, a shotun and slugs or a muzzleloader.

Not sure about the Foothills season as I don't have regulations handy.

Turning part of the early archery season into a "primative weapons season" for bows, crossbows, muzzleloaders would be an idea.

Robin down under

duffy..The idea of a special primitive weapons season may have some merit, but it doesn't directly address the issue of having crossbows included in the general archery season.
Those special seasons in Strathcona, Wainwright etc. really don't provide a solution. Many of us would just like to hunt with a crossbow in the area of our choice..during the regular archery season.
As to allocating a part of the general archery season for "primitive weapons",.. That may be stretching it. As I see it, is no need to further fragment the existing available seasons.
Just a simple change in definition is all that's reqd. .and not necessarily defined by P & Y.

The old thing about give & take I guess.

Now we are starting to think!

How about having only two seasons:

15 Aug to 15 Oct Primitive Weapon
16 Oct to 30 Nov General

But here's the twist....what is classed a "primitive weapon"?

As I see it:

Muzzle Loaders
Bows (vertical and horizontal)

(Like the way I snuck in an extra week at the beginning just to even things up?)

Opps,

I guess that is not as even as I thought, kind of gave the Primitives an extra 2 weeks:

Ammend to Read:

Primitive 1 Sep to 15 Oct
General 16 Oct to 30 Nov

Or here is another thought:

1 Sep - 30 Sep Primitive
1 Oct - 30 Nov General
1 Dec - 30 Dec Primitive

That way everyone gets 2 months!

Good thinking Piglet..
If I may, I'd like to make a couple of ammendments to your suggestions.
(a) Include the use of Crossbows in General Archery. This way it only leaves Blackpowder requiring a slot.

(b)
Maybe something like this;

Sept1 - Oct 30...General Archery
Sept ? Oct ?......Blackpowder (non exclusive)
This way perhaps nobody will feel they drew the short end. Hope so anyway.

BTW.. Love your idea of the primitives Dec1-Dec 30 I wish !

Whupapup

In the primitive under Muzzle Loaders I intended it to be all front stuffers....black powder and all.

And the Bow includes all types, Trad, Compound and Crossbows.

Primitive was all inclusive.

The General is for all Gun hunters.

I wonder if it would be fair, considering I gave the early season and the late season to the Primitive users if we should exclude them from the General season so those who only use the gun would not feel they have been short changed.

But that would allow those who want to use it all a 4 month season, while those who wish to only do one or the other an even two months of hunting each.

Granted I did split the primitive hunter seasons, but there has to be some give and take I suppose.

Dunno Piglet.. I,m thinking it's a bit premature suggesting season dates of any type at this point. Lot,s of options, few solutions.

Interesting though, to catch the feedback on the subject.

Thanks Duffy, I think they didn't read my last post thoroughly...

Sheep: I take it you mean the no greater than 65% let-off? I think you are still eligible above 65% but it will be noted?

Piglet and Whup: What I said was basically pretty similar to what the regs say now on what is considered a bow for bow only season. Wanna check it out it's right here.

Read the post again I didn't say "only trophy hunters" or or or... just stated an equipment definition. PRETTY MUCH LIKE WHAT IT SAYS IN THE REGS RIGHT NOW.

I like bow season the way it is. I used to bow hunt a lot (compound), not so much the last five years, seems like I just don't have the time to do it anymore. I admire the trad bow guys alot, I think that's something to aspire to for a bowhunter.

I will probably never buy a crossbow unless it gets added to the bow season. Which is something I hear a lot of guys who would never consider shooting a compound or trad bow say.

You know we just went through this whole thing in a thread about this time last year? and I had the same opinion then as I do now, I like it the way it is, xbows can be used all general season, if you want to hunt during bow season do it with an authorized bow.

Oh, and Merry Christmas to you all!

Merry Christmas !
Hey Rocks.. I,m really curious as to why you see Crossbows as being so different from your choice and why they should be lumped in with rifles and allowed in general season only.
Just like yourself, there are a good number of us who would also like to enjoy the benefits the early season provides.

Our choice (the X-Bow) has a fletched projectile, is mechanically launched and has an initial velocity less than 400 fps..Kinda different than a centerfire, don't you think?... and very close to compound specs in those areas. Kinda like a half-brother.

This whole thing is about opportunities. We are not trying to impose ourselves on what some consider to be a exclusive and private domain because of design specifications. A little extra room to allow additional hunters to participate is all that is asked.
Anyway, this could go on forever. Just hoping for a break.

Have a Great Holiday..

Rocks.. Those specs provided by P & Y are directed to those who wish to qualify for one of THEIR awards. That's where the "trophy hunting" remarks came from in a previous post. Not everybody is interested in a P&Y award.

If F & W used them as a specificaton guideline for inclusion in the current Archery Regs..Fine & Dandy ! If that is the case, perhaps it,s time F & W provided their own updated definition
that addresses archery hunting in Alberta as a whole.

Whup: You (and many others) and I may never agree on this subject. But hey, it'd be pretty boring around here if everyone agreed on everything. My reference to the P&Y guidlines were that although they are pretty similar to what the Alberta regs say now, they are slightly more definitive and come from the "top" of the bowhunting world.

I don't think the crossbow is much different than the compound. And if you want to use one, I say go ahead, you are allowed plenty of opportunity to do so.

However, i feel there is a difference that makes it distinct from vertical bows, which is you can "@#%$" it and not have to hold string weight, and therefore do not have to draw and hold once the target comes into range. Otherwise, yes, the hunting methods used are very similar.

Bow hunting season to me is a special thing, reserved for those who have the dedication and time to learn how to shoot and be proficient with a tool that not everyone chooses to put the work into. I loved hunting in bow season, barely any hunting pressure, minimum encounters with other hunters, etc. I think if you allow cross bows in there you're gonna introduce a lot of rifle only hunters who would never think of using a vertical bow...and if you do, there may be enough extra pressure during the bow season, that it may go on draw, which would definitely take away from anyone who wants to take advantage of bow season right now.

Good also for manufacturers, not so good for game.

So I'll say it again: if you want to hunt during bow season, you can! Anyone can, right now! In fact, I encourage you to, its great, trust me, I had good success doing it. Doing it with an authorized bow as the regs currently state! No-one is being excluded, EVERYONE has the opportunity...

" No-one is being excluded, EVERYONE has the opportunity..."

Not quite. My friend has 2 very damaged vertibre in his back from a car accident. He can still walk and do light work. He doesn't qualify for a disabled hunter for some reason??? He can't pull a bow string back and hold it and he won't shoot rifles. His hunting is over until the change the crossbow rules...and in his eyes...he doesn't have much hope to hunt again.

to me...anthing that goes "ffffttttttt" is in one season and anything that goes "bang" is in another. Although I'm not counting black powder anywhere in there as I don't know sqaut about it LOL.

Rocks (and all) Merry Christmas to you as well.

You said: "My reference to the P&Y guidlines were that although they are pretty similar to what the Alberta regs say now, they are slightly more definitive and come from the "top" of the bowhunting world."

This is where I get the idea that you seem to think that trophy hunting is the epitomy of hunting. P&Y "Top" of the bowhunting world, I think not, it is a measuring system for defining what is a trophy in the eyes of those who wish to compare thier success to others.

You also said: "Bow hunting season to me is a special thing, reserved for those who have the dedication and time to learn how to shoot and be proficient with a tool that not everyone chooses to put the work into."

Again you used the word "reserved" I cannot find anywhere in the wildlife act or the regulations that says the "Archery Season" is reserved for anyone. And although I have to admit to not being privvy to the original history of this season I venture to say that it was not put in place based on how difficult it is for some people to become proficient.

I have also reviewed the link you put in for P&Y and the current definition for what is a bow in the eyes of the Alberta hunting regulations. They are not all that similar except for the hold & draw requirement the rest of the Alberta requirements are only related to draw weight (min 40 lbs) and arrow length (min 24 in.) Therefore I doubt that the regulations used the P&Y as a basis, likely they were put there as the minimums needed to effectively launch an arrow at the velocity they felt was needed to cleanly kill an animal.

I know I am not going to change your mind on allowing more people access to the archery season, I only wish we could all get along and come up with a compromise that we could all swallow.

Also Gopherslayer, you may want to re-read, your friend can still hunt with a crossbow, in the regular seasons for rifle. His hunting days are not over, he mearly has to confrom to the current rules. This discussion is about allowing crossbows into the archery seasons, crossbows have be legal to hunt with in Alberta since 2002.

Have a good New Year all!

lots of good ideas here, but the worst one was to allow muzzleloaders in the bowzone. Jamie, it's called a "bowzone" for a reason. Ya let's have guys firing off smokepoles on 5 acre parcles. Ya I know about the foothills license, it's only for a few days...

Can someone please clarify "bowzone", as I cannot find any reference to it in the regulations.

I can find Wildlife Management Units where there are no General Seasons, but only an Archery Season available. And without reading every permutation of seasons I'm pretty sure there are some WMU that offer a mix of both, but on differing dates.

I pretty sure that the dates and season specifications are set for management purposes, not to offer one type of hunting priority over another.

I have yet to see the term "bowzone" used in official documentation. If someone can find it please let me know, I like to keep up on this stuff.

Thanks

Rocks..I,ve just taken my blood pressure. I's O.k now, so here goes.

For sure, were not likely to ever agree on this, but let me state this right now.

I started hunting with a Lemonwood Longbow back in the '50,s. Then, on to what was likely one of the first pure fiberglas recurves in this area. From there to laminates, then on to my Hoyt Ultr-Tec. I,m no hot-shot, but "dedication and time"...c,mon Rocks, give it a rest !
I,m now turning 68 yrs., having held a hunting license in this Province every year since I turned 16. Now, I no longer have the physical ability to "hold string weight" at the point I feel confident. I,m not disabled..just gettin old. But I still love Archery season.

Now you tell me I can "go ahead, because I have plenty of opportunity to do so".. Sure Rock, I can join the gong show in rifle season. How Nice ! No way, my man. I, and many others like me, want the same opportunity, for the same reasons, that you do..in the Archery season! Remember, "bowhunting season is "reserved" for those who have the dedication and time to learn"

Sorry, not meaning to sound upset. Gotta go do the blood pressure thing again.

The term bowzones apply to WMUs that permit archrery hunting only. There is one around Edmonton, one around Calgary and WMU410 around Canmore. Crossbows are not permitted in these WMUs.

Thanks Sheep Hunter,

I was being a bit of a jerk, I know that some people like to call the WMU around the cities "bowzones" I was only trying to point out that calling them that is a misnomer applied by those who wish they were.

As it stands there are no bowzones only WMU with Archery seasons. What I think we need to do is get a new definition on what is included in the archery equipment family.

With my previous posts I was trying to get them re-named as Primitive Hunting seasons which could allow for more liberal (can't beleive I used that word here) definitions on the tackle being used.

This is not a bad thread good feedback.

Either that or just call crossbows...bows!

Another dissenter of including crossbows in the archery season. I'm with Rocks. Nope........find another season besides the archery season to use crossbows in. There already is an archery season and all you have to do to get involved in pick up a bow like the ones defined in the regulations, practice shooting regularly, change your hunting tactics (which will require additional skills and knowledge) and away you go. Not much dissent on this subject and on this board because it is not an archery centric website. There is stiff opposition on this subject from the ABA and other dedicated archery only organizations. There is a place for crossbows but not in the archery season..........which I fear would be placed in jeopardy if crossbows were included (reduced season/more draws). If you truly want to be an archer......buy a bow. Just as was said before....this is not a forum where everybody is going to agree and if it was, then it would get quite boring.

You can read the Goveernment response to the AFGA resolution W-2-2006 at:
www.afga.org//index.html?func=library
"BE IT RESOLVED THAT crossbows be allowed to be used during the archery season"

Government response: "There is no support for the use of crossbows during archery only seasons fromn the archery stakeholders..."

STAKEHOLDERS being the key word in this decision...

Happy New Year to all of you!!!!

There is a place for crossbows but not in the archery season..........which I fear would be placed in jeopardy if crossbows were included (reduced season/more draws).

I've heard this arguement countless times from the ABA but it makes no sense to me. Give crossbow hunters their own season and those days will have to come from either the rifle or archery season....thus reducing the season. Also, if crossbows have their own season for the draws, the number of licences available in the other draws (archery/rifle) will have to be reduced...increasing draw times anyhow. The only way that archers will not have their draw times increased or their seasons reduced is if crossbows are confined to the rifle season and then why is it fair to the rifle hunters that they must have increased draw time waits? On the surface the ABA seems to be very greedy on this subject.

209X50 wrote:

Perhaps Minister Ted will take the new membership totals into consideration when pondering changes to hunting seasons and the ABA elitist hard line may just mean that the new crossbow season may come right out of the archery season

I hope that if changes are considered based on the numbers of people involved, that Minister Ted looks at the number of people that buy a bowhunting permit in Alberta each year rather than the membership numbers of the ABA.

Not all bowhunters agree with ABA policies and not all bowhunters are against crossbow inclusion in archery season, but the number of bowhunting permits sold better
reflects the level of archery participation than the ABA membership numbers.

Chet

It floors me that with plummeting archery participation that the ABA can be so short sighted. Very soon what the handful of archers want will be sacrificed to the will of the majority.
As so many here have said archery takes time, I know I once did it to but who has the time anymore? And the numbers reflect that as our economy heats up the archery numbers have died off.
Right now the ABA voice is given a level of respect out of past courtesy by government officials that is out of proportion to the current membership numbers. Perhaps Minister Ted will take the new membership totals into consideration when pondering changes to hunting seasons and the ABA elitist hard line may just mean that the new crossbow season may come right out of the archery season. Who knows?

Bowhunter numbers (based on number of bowhunting licences sold) are dropping in Alberta at a fairly rapid rate. Allowing crossbows in archery seasn would likely do little more than bring those numbers up to historical highs. You never heard the ABA complaining about too many bowhunters then so how could bringing those numbers back up be a bad thing? See why this does seem like a very greedy position the ABA is taking. When overall hunter numbers began dropping in Alberta all hunters banded together to geth those numbers on the rise once again. Why is the ABA content to let the number of bowhunters fall?

Why are we trying to reinvent the wheel here folks? Many provinces and states do allow crossbows in regular archery season. There is nothing new or earth shattering about the concept.

I would rather see a season created for crossbows only and give up some time from the general season and/or the archery season (of which I'm an active participant of both) instead of just including them in archery season because I think that would best preserve the qualities of archey season as it is now.

I haven't checked on the current disablilty qualifications for using crossbows in the archery season yet but I don't like the idea of people being excluded from a season based on their physical abilities.

I really don't think that Sustainable Resources would ever create a seperate season for crossbows only because of the extra management burden, so I think we will always have just two seasons for the most part, and if that's the case, I still support keeping them only in the general season.

Perhaps Sustainable Resources should revisit the disability qualifications for using a crossbow in archery season. They have obviously considered it to some degree as they allow 12 and 13 year olds to hunt with verticle bows and cross-bows but not rifles for big game which I think is a reasonable regulation.

Chet

What a surprise, the Archery only gang do not support crossbows in the archery season, that's like surveying colleges in Quebec if they support gun control.......!!

How about putting the question out to the hunting community to see what they support.

A mandatory questionaire with each hunting licence purchase should do it, no essay questions just a few simple yes/no answers to these sort of issues.

It's an electronic system an the addition of a couple of questions should be easy to implement and would get feedback from all hunters & fisherman.

Then let the SRD base their answers on the feedback of those who use and pay for the system versus special interest groups.

As to the issue of anyone losing part of their season if crossbows are accepted as archery tackle then there is no change to the current seasons. And let the harvest history prove the validity of the arguement that there would be more kills with the inclusion of a new method.

Where are the statistics on bowhunting success now? If you are going to quote facts, let's see them on paper.

I don't consider hunter surveys to be accurate, what about mandatory registery of all hunting kills. That would provide the needed information.

I browsed through this thread, I have to ask if the crossgun is heavier, not as accurate, more difficult to make stalks with etc, being the reasons to allow it into the archery seasons why not just use a compound bow?
If you want to challenge yourself to hunt with a crossbow there already exists long seasons to do so. Up north sept 17- nov 30. Archery only season is aug 25- sept 16.
If you want to crossbow hunt earlier go for sheep aug 25.