Big sheep changes

[mad mountain mike]

I'm not convinced things are going down hill other than natural population cycles. I know I see a hell of a lot more sheep while sheep hunting than I do elk while elk hunting ( in the 400's ). I Think outfitters would like to see less resident competition on the hill so I don't think they would want to see 5 more years of no draw. I read the the report that you linked and in my simple mind his suggestions seem like they deserve some thought and debate. Lastly I think Dr. Boyce is a honourable professional who bases his conclusions on what he sees as the facts and the well being of our wild life not the financial well being of the outfitters.

[LCCFisherman]

I think they should change it to only allow you to hunt sheep the zone you live in. You don't live in a zone, you don't get to hunt sheep.

[upongrassy]

Originally Posted by LCCFisherman

I think they should change it to only allow you to hunt sheep the zone you live in. You don't live in a zone, you don't get to hunt sheep.

Interesting, given your name.

[bdub]

Well I hope they pick the zones where you hunt sheep mike to knock the herd back 20% and not my zones. Better read the july article in ao again before you jump on that bus.

[Cjj]

it is a TROPHY sheep tag. I have helped too many people haul out 4/5 lamb tipped "squeaker" rams that are anything but a trophy ram. If this is what it takes to bring that to an end, then so be it. And if some big broomed trophy rams that will never reach full curl live to breed and die by Mother Nature's hand instead of us sheep hunters, well that works for me too.
If you are someone looking for a legal ram then go to Wilmore. They get legal young there, but you will have to work for it. Not like K country where you hike an hour from the parking lot
To sum it up: full curl south of Brazzeau makes sense to me

[stringer]

Originally Posted by bdub

http://www.wsfab.org/pdfs/boyce.pdf

Seems Mr. Boyce would like to do a five year experiment on our sheep herds. Another wasted 5 years while things continue to go slowly downhill. Can smell the outfitter influence all over this one.

Where did you receive your biology degree from ?

[bdub]

Originally Posted by stringer

Where did you receive your biology degree from ?

No biology degree. Almost 30 years of observing sheep, sheep hunting and self education reading the works of sharpest minds on the subject is my only pedigree.

Looking for a debate on the subject of sheep management or just curious Stringer?

[GFY]

Originally Posted by Cjj

it is a TROPHY sheep tag. I have helped too many people haul out 4/5 lamb tipped "squeaker" rams that are anything but a trophy ram. If this is what it takes to bring that to an end, then so be it. And if some big broomed trophy rams that will never reach full curl live to breed and die by Mother Nature's hand instead of us sheep hunters, well that works for me too.
If you are someone looking for a legal ram then go to Wilmore. They get legal young there, but you will have to work for it. Not like K country where you hike an hour from the parking lot
To sum it up: full curl south of Brazzeau makes sense to me

funny how you say that as the brazzeau south is the part that is what you talk about where a huge part will never make full curl. For your K country comment I can tell you have never hunted it as there is lots that is a lot harder than you suggest. Not everybody drives up and down the highway hoping for a miracle. I think people need to figure out sheep are not like other animals. That is why most think there is none left .

[bdub]

Originally Posted by GFY

funny how you say that as the brazzeau south is the part that is what you talk about where a huge part will never make full curl. For your K country comment I can tell you have never hunted it as there is lots that is a lot harder than you suggest. Not everybody drives up and down the highway hoping for a miracle. I think people need to figure out sheep are not like other animals. That is why most think there is none left .

Nobody thinks there is no sheep left. That is not the issue. The sheep population is stable. The issue is with the ram segment of the population.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

When and what's going to happen anyone know?

[stringer]

Originally Posted by bdub

No biology degree. Almost 30 years of observing sheep, sheep hunting and self education reading the works of sharpest minds on the subject is my only pedigree.

Looking for a debate on the subject of sheep management or just curious Stringer?

Just wondering as to your qualifications that would have you suggests that a 5 year study would be an experiment.
As for the outfitters influence they would like nothing more than to see it go on draw as that would eliminate most of the compation from resident hunters.
If you what to see where a full curl rule will take us look no further than the southern part of the province and that failed experiment.

[stringer]

Originally Posted by bdub

[/B]

Nobody thinks there is no sheep left. That is not the issue. The sheep population is stable. The issue is with the ram segment of the population.

Just because you don't see them doesn't mean their not there.
From what I've heard and seen this year there were a lot of great Rams taken.
Their still out their but harder to find than they where 10 to 15 years ago.

[Luckwell]

We are all sheep hunters on this tread. That being said everyone on this tread will have a different opinion of what a "trophy" ram means to them. What we can agree on is that've all love chasing those Phantom Rams. We all just want the chance to go out to gods country year after year. So as we all have a different idea of what a trophy is let me bring up a management plan that my buddy and I have recently brain child.

2 Rams of any size in a life time. Hunters that have already shot a ram (or seven) are now knocked down to 1 ram left.

Reasons for this idea- This will keep hunter oppourunities available while also increasing older sheep on the mountain. Our thoughts behind that is once you have filled you first tag I can't imagine a lot of us would settle for anything less that a TRUE trophy knowing that it would be out last ram. There would be a lot of 5 year old Rams that are now considered legal being passed on. Sure there would be a few half curl Rams shot, but that is enough to satisfy a lot of highway banging sheep hunters. Full curl won't work because a large population of Rams will never reach full curl but will reach full body mass and dominate the rut. We still aren't gaining anything there. If we go to a draw we will all be waiting 15-20 years for a tag. Every legal ram shot there is always something wrong with it. "It's a 6 year old full curl, should have left it for a few years" "it's a heavy broomed barely 4/5ths ram that didn't grow fast enough" Leave the "trophy" hunting to what the hunters think is the trophy. But limit the number of trophies. 2 a lifetime. Any hunters who have already filled a ram tag is only allowed 1. hunter opportunity remains the same. Big sheep will be passed on leading to older sheep on the mountain. Just our humble thoughts.

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by Luckwell

We are all sheep hunters on this tread. That being said everyone on this tread will have a different opinion of what a "trophy" ram means to them. What we can agree on is that've all love chasing those Phantom Rams. We all just want the chance to go out to gods country year after year. So as we all have a different idea of what a trophy is let me bring up a management plan that my buddy and I have recently brain child.

2 Rams of any size in a life time. Hunters that have already shot a ram (or seven) are now knocked down to 1 ram left.

Reasons for this idea- This will keep hunter oppourunities available while also increasing older sheep on the mountain. Our thoughts behind that is once you have filled you first tag I can't imagine a lot of us would settle for anything less that a TRUE trophy knowing that it would be out last ram. There would be a lot of 5 year old Rams that are now considered legal being passed on. Sure there would be a few half curl Rams shot, but that is enough to satisfy a lot of highway banging sheep hunters. Full curl won't work because a large population of Rams will never reach full curl but will reach full body mass and dominate the rut. We still aren't gaining anything there. If we go to a draw we will all be waiting 15-20 years for a tag. Every legal ram shot there is always something wrong with it. "It's a 6 year old full curl, should have left it for a few years" "it's a heavy broomed barely 4/5ths ram that didn't grow fast enough" Leave the "trophy" hunting to what the hunters think is the trophy. But limit the number of trophies. 2 a lifetime. Any hunters who have already filled a ram tag is only allowed 1. hunter opportunity remains the same. Big sheep will be passed on leading to older sheep on the mountain. Just our humble thoughts.

From what you just posted this might as well be an any ram draw like the US has. You will only get one maybe 2 in a lifetime. We need to kill them on age not curl in my opinion. Count rings be sure.

Since this topic has been beat to death has anyone heard anything about the 2016 regs and if this full curl rule is coming into play 100% for sure?

[Luckwell]

Montana goes on a draw takes 15-20 years. After you get your ram you can not re-apply for another 8 years. Then you start the 15-20 year draw again. Once in a lifetime is more like it. They are on a 3/4 curl reg. but they don't get a chance to even hunt the Rams for minimum 38 years. Being able to go out and hunt them every year while limiting the number harvested I feel is much better than what they have.

There is already cases of "short sheep" every year. How can we expect a "count the rings/age confirmation" to work?

I haven't seen any 100% confirmation that any changes are being made for 2016. And nothing posted on WSFA. Think NDP would make a change to it in there first year?

[openroad]

It's tough enough to count the rings after the Rams down.
Trying to count the rings from a ram on the hoof would be tricky.
I appreciate all the ideas and am interested in the outcome for 2016.