Paid Hunting

[grinr]

Originally Posted by chinchaga

You know this, how?

No brainer,'mericans and Euros would be all over buying up paid access like white on rice,average Albertans get to compete with those $$$ to hunt in their own province.

[bison]

Originally Posted by waterfowler1969

Animals are not yours. If you don't want them there put a 12' fence around it to keep them out. Why should you make a dime off of our animals? I also think all game farms should be illegal in Alberta too. Animals eating your crop is a cost of doing business so don't say you feed them as they would eat there even if you grew nothing. As for outfitting if you don't like it don't let them on. So what makes it ok for you to need to charge for access? Were is your farm?

I had the same stupid remark from an outfitter that wanted access to my land for his American clients and got mad when i asked him "what is in it for me" and he said "These animals are not yours".
I replied,..That might be so but then neither are they yours,..but the land they're on sure as "ell is mine!, and if you think it is OK for you to make a couple thou on my land and nothing for me you better think again. I told him to leave and not ever call again.

Landowners don't own the oil under their land either but if an oil company wants access to do some exploratory drilling on it he will have to show the cash or it ain't gonna happen.

What makes it OK for you to demand access for free?
Farming is not a money making business,..every cent helps make ends meet.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by bison

I had the same stupid remark from an outfitter that wanted access to my land for his American clients and got mad when i asked him "what is in it for me" and he said "These animals are not yours".
I replied,..That might be so but then neither are they yours,..but the land they're on sure as "ell is mine!, and if you think it is OK for you to make a couple thou on my land and nothing for me you better think again. I told him to leave and not ever call again.

Landowners don't own the oil under their land either but if an oil company wants access to do some exploratory drilling on it he will have to show the cash or it ain't gonna happen.

What makes it OK for you to demand access for free?
Farming is not a money making business,..every cent helps make ends meet.

So you're admitting on an open forum that you knowingly bartered/sought compensation for hunting access on your land in Alberta where that is illegal?
Careful there,next guy asking permission might be wearing a bug?

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by grinr

So you're admitting on an open forum that you knowingly bartered/sought compensation for hunting access on your land in Alberta where that is illegal?
Careful there,next guy asking permission might be wearing a bug?

Arg.
Actually Bison makes a really good argument when it comes to outfitters, but Joe Public just wants access to take his gun for a walk, a lot different in my eyes.

[flyguyd]

Originally Posted by bison

Farming is not a money making business,..every cent helps make ends meet.

Why do it then , you wouldnt stay a job that didnt pay ,would you

[elkhunter11]

Actually Bison makes a really good argument when it comes to outfitters, but Joe Public just wants access to take his gun for a walk, a lot different in my eyes.

They are very different, in that the outfitter wants to use the access to make a profit, while the resident hunter doesn't. However, if you allow the outfitters to purchase access, the resident hunters will still lose access, as a result.

[AtimoseMan]

This from the Alberta Ropen the web.'' Alberta Beef Producers'' [ Hunting agreement and waivers] This is a good form for giving permission to cover your rear end.

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

They are very different, in that the outfitter wants to use the access to make a profit, while the resident hunter doesn't. However, if you allow the outfitters to purchase access, the resident hunters will still lose access, as a result.

That's a good point. The whole for/against outfitter argument could add a few more pages to this thread.

[bison]

Originally Posted by flyguyd

Why do it then , you wouldnt stay a job that didnt pay ,would you

Unlike a lot of other people that hate their job but stay in it for the money i like what i'm doing and i live the life i always wanted, for me, although much needed,.. money comes only secondary

[pikergolf]

This whole thing is driven by what is happening with outfitters, farmers are looking at this piece of the pie making money off of our wildlife and wondering why not them. Can't even blame them for it, why is it alright for one segment make out like bandits and the other has to sit by with nothing. 10% of tags going to outfitters is way to much, money to be made and now it's starting to manifest as problems in other areas. When money is involved all pretense of fair play is out the widow and everybody wants their piece of the action, welcome to the new age.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

This whole thing is driven by what is happening with outfitters, farmers are looking at this piece of the pie making money off of our wildlife and wondering why not them. Can't even blame them for it, why is it alright for one segment make out like bandits and the other has to sit by with nothing. 10% of tags going to outfitters is way to much, money to be made and now it's starting to manifest as problems in other areas. When money is involved all pretense of fair play is out the widow and everybody wants their piece of the action, welcome to the new age.

I agree; excessive and essentially unregulated outfitting is the root of the majority of the big game hunting issues in Alberta.

The current pay for access/hunting occurring west of Calgary is being done through large outfitters/landowners. Fish and Wildlife need to stop rummaging around in the back of trucks and get serious about making an example of this group.
All imo.

[elkhunter11]

I agree; excessive and essentially unregulated outfitting is the root of the majority of the big game hunting issues in Alberta.

The current pay for access/hunting occurring west of Calgary is being done through large outfitters/landowners. Fish and Wildlife need to stop rummaging around in the back of trucks and get serious about making an example of this group.
All imo.

I agree with much of what you are saying, but unfortunately SRD doesn't seem to want to deal with any of this. I have e-mailed the minister, as well as several people at SRD, about the excessively high number of outfitter allocations given out, for pronghorns, and they don't seem at all interested. I have also e-mailed them as to why outfitters that have been convicted of multiple violations of the Wildlife Act, as well as multiple Criminal Act convictions, are still allowed to outfit, and they respond that they leave it up to APOS to discipline it's members. It appears that SRD just doesn't care. As such, I certainly don't see SRD resisting efforts to establish paid access in Alberta.

[scottymac]

Here in Manitoba when I get lucky enough to get drawn for elk my partner and I like to head to a property that we pay a 500$ dollar few to hunt on. Depending on the animal you harvest be it a bull, cow, spike or Any moose you also pay a small harvest fee. The benefits to me are a good population of animals, the use of lots of different ground blinds/ tree stands and the safety factor of knowing who else is hunting the property. The land owner also runs a bear and whitetail outfitting business but the elk and moose are for Manitoba residents only. We have never failed to get our animal and as long as the government never allows American hunters it should continue that way. If Americans could hunt there the land owner said we could never afford to hunt there again. I have also hunted crown land with great success but are constantly disturb by other hunters. For me traveling a long way from the northern part of the province to hunt the small fees we pay are totally worth it.

[bison]

Originally Posted by grinr

So you're admitting on an open forum that you knowingly bartered/sought compensation for hunting access on your land in Alberta where that is illegal?
Careful there,next guy asking permission might be wearing a bug?

Since when is it illegal to feel/sound someone out?
I ain't afraid to speak my mind and authority don't scare me either, i just voiced my opinion
If a recreational hunter wants permission to hunt my property i may or may not give him access depending on the person(s) but if some outfitter stands to gain monetary profit from guiding/hunting on my land i would want to see fair compensation and otherwise they can go pound sand.
I did not make a deal with this guy nor am i interested, foreigners can go hunt in their own country for all i care, they are the ones FFing it up for Albertans,..courtesy of your Government

[cal9mm]

I stopped asking for access around the city because every landowner said no. That's fine, that's your right, and I am totally fine with that. I'm not lazy and travel all over Alberta during hunting season, there's plenty of crown land out there, even the foot access only. In fact, my wife jokes she's single for 3 months of the year.

The point I'm making here is, by respecting the landowners wishes, its not me confronting those that cut your fences and shoot your cattle which I have no problem doing that on your behalf. I've chosen to leave those problems for you to deal with, as the land owner, enjoy.

[cal9mm]

Or asking those I come across if they have permission to hunt on said land by the owner.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by bison

Since when is it illegal to feel/sound someone out?
I ain't afraid to speak my mind and authority don't scare me either, i just voiced my opinion
If a recreational hunter wants permission to hunt my property i may or may not give him access depending on the person(s) but if some outfitter stands to gain monetary profit from guiding/hunting on my land i would want to see fair compensation and otherwise they can go pound sand.
I did not make a deal with this guy nor am i interested, foreigners can go hunt in their own country for all i care, they are the ones FFing it up for Albertans,..courtesy of your Government

Relax bud....jest sayn

Edit;and fwiw,it aint MY guvment......I aint got much use for'em neither.

[flyguyd]

Originally Posted by bison

Unlike a lot of other people that hate their job but stay in it for the money i like what i'm doing and i live the life i always wanted, for me, although much needed,.. money comes only secondary

Then why do you need more......
If you have what you truly want , secondary isnt nessessary

[grinr]

Deck the halls with boughs of holly,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Tis the season to be jolly,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

Don we now our gay apparel,
Fa la la, la la la, la la la.
Troll the ancient Yule tide carol,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

See the blazing Yule before us,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Strike the harp and join the chorus.
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

Follow me in merry measure,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
While I tell of Yule tide treasure,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

Fast away the old year passes,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Hail the new, ye lads and lasses,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.


Sing we joyous, all together,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Heedless of the wind and weather,
Fa la la la la, la la la la


Sorry if I offended any non-Christian New Albertans......I just thought this thread could use some lightenin' up??
Cheers!!

[trophyboy]

First of all, I am a landowner. I said it a long time ago and was shot down when I said it is the greasy guides and outfitters who will be the ones to bring about paid hunting. They are making money from landowners and giving the landowners nothing...or paying them under the table.

I will never pay for access as the wildlife belongs to everyone. Perhaps the landowners should pay the citizens for having our wildlife on their land. Paid hunting will be a disaster but it will eventually come to fruition.

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by AtimoseMan

Landowner - I'm with you on this on about borrowing sweet money like others should do. I was smart with my money in the past by saving enough to purchase the land I own. There was a lot of sacrifice that went along with it.I don't own the big boat,5th wheel trailer,quads,lake lot, and a fancy truck like others. I lived low and stayed within my means. I treasure my property and look after my interest.As for a rich ecosystem makes this property more valuable in the market. A lot of people are looking for this type of rich land.
Waterfowler - I do wonder why you say you were raised on a ranch! Hum!! I have to admit I have a relation that grew up on a farm and now lives in Calgary for the past 20 years. Even though she was barn raised,she turned into a city-it now.As for me getting subsidized I never seen any of this money your accusing me of.
I find it very surprising that you are against me preserving habitat for wildlife.As commented for me to 12 ft fence this land and drive out the wildlife,I find this very odd coming from a hunter.You want me to make these animals leave there home that I set aside for them. Instead of making them leave there home how about you leave your home in this -30C weather and how would you like this????
As for the comment of using a quarter section for motor cross. Hey what ever's your gig. Look at the prime farm land used for golf courses.I don't here anyone swak about paying the green fees. Load and behold pay a farmer for hunting access!!!
Any way waterfowler1969 you are just to Hilarious!! Hey my challenge for you is still on for the long weekend in May. I'm going to call your poker hand!!

You say you want to charge to come and hunt on your place. That is why I said about the game fence. You make it sound you don't like them on one hand and love the wildlife on the other. Sorry I missed you actually respect all wildlife. That is great to hear that you care as a lot of landowners don't. To respond to me and were I live now and were I came from. I grew up in a farm and ranch community and my family had some land. The 80,s happened and we no longer have it do to bad times. Like I said I will gladly take you up on your offer on coming out and helping anytime. I do all the time on friends places. But I still disagree with paid hunting and landowner tags.

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by JRsMav

I get treated like a d-bag al the time by guys that I know for a fact are 'one off' hunters. These are the guys that show up once every 40 years because they drew a tag in your zone. I say no - politely. I say if you actually want to harvest our animals (meaning the publics game animals) off my land, then show some effort and stop by consecutive years and establish a relationship with me. Doesn't mean youre in the 'in' crown or not, just that youre actually wanting to get to know me before I send you off onto my land. That's why all summer I make my rounds weekly to shoot the chit with other landowners whos land I hunt on.

Bingo. I agree 100%

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by PBHunter

Bingo ... talk to the Hand Hill's Hutterite Colony near Hanna, ask them if they are liable for allowing access to their land ...

Come on,how much did they pay? Get your facts straight.I know for a fact they did not pay a red cent.

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by bison

I had the same stupid remark from an outfitter that wanted access to my land for his American clients and got mad when i asked him "what is in it for me" and he said "These animals are not yours".
I replied,..That might be so but then neither are they yours,..but the land they're on sure as "ell is mine!, and if you think it is OK for you to make a couple thou on my land and nothing for me you better think again. I told him to leave and not ever call again.

Landowners don't own the oil under their land either but if an oil company wants access to do some exploratory drilling on it he will have to show the cash or it ain't gonna happen.

What makes it OK for you to demand access for free?
Farming is not a money making business,..every cent helps make ends meet.

Watch what you say about oil. Ever herd of directional drilling? The will get it anyway. LOL. For outfitters you don't have to agree with it either so don't let them on. But charging a average joe is that ok? If farming is not a way to make money do something else because you aint going to be charging for access anytime soon.

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by 12DLT

Arg.
Actually Bison makes a really good argument when it comes to outfitters, but Joe Public just wants access to take his gun for a walk, a lot different in my eyes.

no different at all paying for access.

[cal9mm]

My 2cents and prediction.

Paid hunting will cause all the old timers with real skill and concern to quit because they can't afford it and don't want to travel to remote regions for crown land.

And the young studs with big paychecks from the rigs that can afford to pay $500+ dollars to hunt someone's land with their giant, lifted 4x4 diesel truck won't care about your crop as they drive over it to pick up their deer that they shot from their Window with their massive 416 Rigby At 100 meters.

The outfitters will do the same with more people and still get richer then you and won't care because their making money.

The people that are to lazy, have no skill and can't afford to pay will still cut your fence after they shoot your horse because they thought it was a cow moose, and still tag it.

And those of us who won't pay will travel to remote regions, do what we do best and not care about your problems or try our best to discourage problem behavior and promote ethical hunting by reporting idiots because we can't afford to pay you for the privilege to hunt your land or refuse to pay for that privilege.

Thus hunting will be marginalized, isolated, and discredited to not be a legitimate sport and used by politicians in the future as a means to sanction firearms illegitimate items that have no place in society.

The end, have a great day.

[IR_mike]

A lot of passionate responses here.

The one thing in common is that everyone here has experienced hunting in a environment that was crafted after the Aldo Leopold model for hunting.

Its sad that some cant figure that out.

[AtimoseMan]

cal9mm - you hit the nail on the head with the problem I have with these Road Poachers as I call them. I got totally turned off and have no use for these guys.We counted 43 pick ups in 2 hours and most of them with tinted windows so you can't see who they are. 43 out of 43 never asked us for permission,sure funny they drive by my hay field at 20 km/hr and some tell me there not hunting! Hum! I wonder what the response would be with eye candy of a 180 BC standing there.Most farmers in the area have posted there land due to this problem. 'QUOTE' Many of these guys made a statement that no hunting signs mean nothing to them! Discussed this problem with fish and wildlife and they don't care!! Then you wonder why your loosing private land hunting rights.

[IR_mike]

Originally Posted by AtimoseMan

cal9mm - you hit the nail on the head with the problem I have with these Road Poachers as I call them. I got totally turned off and have no use for these guys.We counted 43 pick ups in 2 hours and most of them with tinted windows so you can't see who they are. 43 out of 43 never asked us for permission,sure funny they drive by my hay field at 20 km/hr and some tell me there not hunting! Hum! I wonder what the response would be with eye candy of a 180 BC standing there.Most farmers in the area have posted there land due to this problem. 'QUOTE' Many of these guys made a statement that no hunting signs mean nothing to them! Discussed this problem with fish and wildlife and they don't care!! Then you wonder why your loosing private land hunting rights.

I know what you're saying.

Plate # and report them if they can't respect private property.

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by AtimoseMan

cal9mm - you hit the nail on the head with the problem I have with these Road Poachers as I call them. I got totally turned off and have no use for these guys.We counted 43 pick ups in 2 hours and most of them with tinted windows so you can't see who they are. 43 out of 43 never asked us for permission,sure funny they drive by my hay field at 20 km/hr and some tell me there not hunting! Hum! I wonder what the response would be with eye candy of a 180 BC standing there.Most farmers in the area have posted there land due to this problem. 'QUOTE' Many of these guys made a statement that no hunting signs mean nothing to them! Discussed this problem with fish and wildlife and they don't care!! Then you wonder why your loosing private land hunting rights.

Maybe a few responsible, ethical hunters on your land would discourage that, or at least you would have a few more eyes in the field to catch it. Just sayin.