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  #31  
Old 08-16-2019, 05:13 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
The M1 Carbine was initially issued to “cooks”, truck drivers etc so they could defend themselves at very short range...in the event they were overrun. Initially, they were armed with colt 1911’s but (generally) couldn’t shoot effectively at very short range ... which the handy little M1 overcame. Officers were issued the M1 because it was taking too much time to get them proficient with the pistol. Must have been pretty effective.
Highly unlikely any pistol would be an effective defense or a deterrent against the scenarios mentioned.
So why aren't police officers, Brinks guards and F&W officers issued M1 Carbines instead of handguns? That same justification, would apply to them as well.
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  #32  
Old 08-16-2019, 05:18 PM
JD848 JD848 is offline
 
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I’ve read the Clairvoyant / Clintonside / Sasquatch threads ... I don’t want anybody carrying
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  #33  
Old 08-16-2019, 05:23 PM
Smokinyotes Smokinyotes is offline
 
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I’m pro open or concealed carry. Your choice. I wouldn’t carry all the time as I know how heavy my 44 mag is and wouldn’t want to pack it all the time but it sure would be nice to have choice.
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  #34  
Old 08-16-2019, 05:24 PM
Tactical Lever Tactical Lever is offline
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
So why aren't police officers, Brinks guards and F&W officers issued M1 Carbines instead of handguns?
One F+W that I used to speak to pretty regularly saved some skin, and maybe a life at least a couple times with his pistol. Once was when a ninny let a bear out of a culvert trap as he was approaching, and the dang thing nearly climbed him. And another was saving a hound from a cougar that latched onto him.

That carbine wouldn't have been in hand during a lot of his day to day travels.
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  #35  
Old 08-16-2019, 05:33 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by Tactical Lever View Post
One F+W that I used to speak to pretty regularly saved some skin, and maybe a life at least a couple times with his pistol. Once was when a ninny let a bear out of a culvert trap as he was approaching, and the dang thing nearly climbed him. And another was saving a hound from a cougar that latched onto him.

That carbine wouldn't have been in hand during a lot of his day to day travels.
It doesn't matter if you are a police officer, a Brinks guard, a F&W officer, or the guy fly fishing in a stream, or carrying a bow while bow hunting, or gutting an elk. A carbine would be just as awkward, for any of them.
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  #36  
Old 08-16-2019, 06:11 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
So why aren't police officers, Brinks guards and F&W officers issued M1 Carbines instead of handguns? That same justification, would apply to them as well.
Apparently not. But, after seeing some of their “qual” targets, no doubt the M1 would serve them better LE does have carbines in cars.
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  #37  
Old 08-16-2019, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
It doesn't matter if you are a police officer, a Brinks guard, a F&W officer, or the guy fly fishing in a stream, or carrying a bow while bow hunting, or gutting an elk. A carbine would be just as awkward, for any of them.
Big difference between the LE types and the fly fisherman / bow hunters. The latter are probably better off with spray. Still better chance of getting hit by lightning in the middle of the stream than being attacked by a bear or a druggie. I don’t have a problem with wilderness carry but I know that I would be safer with spray than a pistol.
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  #38  
Old 08-16-2019, 06:27 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
Apparently not. But, after seeing some of their “qual” targets, no doubt the M1 would serve them better LE does have carbines in cars.
Exactly my point, yet they are issued handguns.
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  #39  
Old 08-16-2019, 06:58 PM
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Yup
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  #40  
Old 08-16-2019, 07:08 PM
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Does anybody have stats showing that “carry” has reduced crime or “wilderness” injuries?
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  #41  
Old 08-16-2019, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
I’ve read the Clairvoyant / Clintonside / Sasquatch threads ... I don’t want anybody carrying


x3
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  #42  
Old 08-16-2019, 07:29 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
Does anybody have stats showing that “carry” has reduced crime or “wilderness” injuries?
Do a simple search on line , and you will find instances where people successfully used handguns to stop attacks from bears. You will even find one instance where a hunter in Alberta used a handgun that he was illegally carrying to save his life during a bear attack. Amazingly enough, he was not even charged, even though he was obviously committing a criminal act by carrying the handgun without a permit.
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  #43  
Old 08-16-2019, 07:34 PM
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We get hung up a bit on short gun vs long gun. I get that the short gun is easier concealed but I have an issue with my 300 Wby legal & short gun not.
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  #44  
Old 08-16-2019, 07:35 PM
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Yes, it is easy to find individual examples of people successfully defending ... and just as easy to find examples of where it went wrong ... I’m asking to see stats, not individual testimonials. If we want to demonstrate benefit, we need to be able to support same.
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  #45  
Old 08-16-2019, 07:42 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
Yes, it is easy to find individual examples of people successfully defending ... and just as easy to find examples of where it went wrong ... I’m asking to see stats, not individual testimonials. If we want to demonstrate benefit, we need to be able to support same.
Since wilderness carry permits are so few in number in Canada, how do to expect to find stats? The same for concealed carry in Canada.

As to results outside of Canada.

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/03/pis...#axzz5wop68ZHS
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  #46  
Old 08-16-2019, 08:12 PM
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OK I agree we do not need open or canceled carry here in the Great White North. I do agree fully with wilderness carry. For bear defense I agree a rifle is more effective but it is not with you all the time as a hand gun is. A rifle usually gets leaned against somethingwhile processing game. Where as a handgun is right with you. A min of 40 caliber with 200+ grain hot loads in the hand is worth 10 stoppers 4 ft away leaned on a tree or rock. Bear Spray is like sex with a leaky condom. It gives you a false sense of security while you are getting screwed. Pepper is for after the bear is on the grill not while it's trying to kill you.
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  #47  
Old 08-16-2019, 08:16 PM
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Personally, while I like the theory of being able to carry around handguns if I so choose... all the guys I know who push this ideal are the exact people I wouldn't want carrying handguns around. I know a few guys who have permits to carry handguns on their traplines that generally don't bother. Once the novelty wears off, I think most logical people figure out that having a half functional firearm pulling their pants down all day just isn't practical.
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  #48  
Old 08-16-2019, 09:23 PM
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Personally, while I like the theory of being able to carry around handguns if I so choose... all the guys I know who push this ideal are the exact people I wouldn't want carrying handguns around. .
100% agree

I don't believe we need a handgun to protect ourselves here in Canada.

I also find other weapons far more effective (albeit not as easy to carry around without it being a burden).

I have no objection to the principle of those people who want to carry - but along with Bushleague's comments above ........ those are the same people I wouldn't want carrying !!!!

How many times has a handgun intervened to save the day in some mass shooting, I don't recall it ever happening. I'm sure there are incidents of some store robberies or something like that, but I'm not seeing these violent incidents decreasing due to all these carry permits being issued.

I don't see it reducing crime or making anyone any safer .....

To the contrary, My fear is a bad situation becomes potentially worse - more silly stuff happening with people who shouldn't be carrying or blasting off rounds anywhere near bystanders.
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  #49  
Old 08-16-2019, 09:40 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by EZM View Post
How many times has a handgun intervened to save the day in some mass shooting, I don't recall it ever happening. .
Only a week ago an armed civilian prevented a potential Walmart shooting spree.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-detain...ry?id=64870120

More incidents.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/mult...d-bad-guy-gun/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-wash-walmart/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ass-shootings/
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  #50  
Old 08-16-2019, 10:22 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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For goodness sakes Elk ... the kid at Walmart carried his gun into the store to make a point. He never threatened anybody with it and did not resist when he was confronted by a chap with a gun. Promoting this as a “potential shooting spree” is not representative of the facts. It is a good example of what happens to somebody with an “in your face” ... “I know my rights” ... makes a stupid move.
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  #51  
Old 08-16-2019, 10:31 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
For goodness sakes Elk ... the kid at Walmart carried his gun into the store to make a point. He never threatened anybody with it and did not resist when he was confronted by a chap with a gun. Promoting this as a “potential shooting spree” is not representative of the facts.
So what was his reason for having ammunition? How about wearing body armor,? Is that the true story, or is that his defense, because he was caught before he could do anything? ? In either case look at the other three links, there are many examples of armed civilians ending criminal activities. That being the case, I am more in favor of wilderness carry, than concealed carry, A handgun is no more threat to society in the wilderness than a long gun, it is just a lot handier in many situations. But that won't stop some fear mongers from making up reasons not to allow wilderness carry.
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Last edited by elkhunter11; 08-16-2019 at 10:38 PM.
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  #52  
Old 08-16-2019, 11:07 PM
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When I step back, and look at the US, and then at Canada, at this time, I conclude that Canada has, over the years, struck a fairly good balance when it comes to firearm legislation. The US population seems to've become so saturated with guns, I can't help but conclude that the number of guns per person in the US vs. the number of guns per person in Canada has at least something to do with the higher number of shootings in the States. Personally, right now, I don't feel I need a handgun to feel any safer in the city where I live.

I would love to be able to carry a handgun for bowhunting and back-country exploration, but, for now, I get by with my little 12ga Maverick.

GRANTED - if Canada's "light on crime" laws continue into the future, and as a result, crime and violence continue to escalate, I could see where the general public will sense a collective need for more self-defense options ... I just don't think we're there yet - but we're probably headed there.

If I had to vote today to have either American gun-laws, or Canadian gun-laws as they exist today, I'd still vote Canadian.

As much as I'd stand with the 2nd amendment, I do think the US firearm regulations could use some updating. How these nut-jobs end up acquiring the weaponry they do is hard to understand.
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  #53  
Old 08-16-2019, 11:30 PM
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Jeez that blond on the video ....... she wasn't scared till she confirmed it wasn't a hunting rifle .... but an " assault " rifle .... tell me she wasn't paid by the libs

Doubt it was full automatic

Anyhow. Ya I'm generally pro carry. Wilderness and private property for sure

And people in Toronto should be allowed to carry ,

If you have had your firearm license for 5 and are 30 + should be allowed ...... something like that.

But never gonna happen
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  #54  
Old 08-16-2019, 11:30 PM
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Anyone opposed to packing in the backcountry has never truly been in the backcountry. Imo
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  #55  
Old 08-16-2019, 11:58 PM
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So, if you honestly believe that your life is in eminent danger if you aren’t carrying a side arm, what’s stopping you from carrying one in order to save your life.......the law? That right there tells me that you are more afraid of the consequences of the law than you are of dying and a poor argument for the need to carry. Better to keep it real and just say that it’d be more convenient in the backcountry.
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  #56  
Old 08-17-2019, 06:53 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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While I am much more interested in wilderness carry, than carrying in urban areas, this is interesting.

https://crimeresearch.org/2018/06/mo...ass-shootings/
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  #57  
Old 08-17-2019, 07:11 AM
Badflies Badflies is offline
 
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I don't need a handgun to go grocery shopping, either do you. Back country sure, but if you are packing around the mall you have some issues. If you are afraid to go outside get some professional help, not more guns.
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  #58  
Old 08-17-2019, 07:29 AM
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I don't need a handgun to go grocery shopping, either do you. Back country sure, but if you are packing around the mall you have some issues. If you are afraid to go outside get some professional help, not more guns.
I don’t need a ridiculous looking black semi auto assault rifle or a bolt action tactical sniper rig or or a semi auto pistol or even one of those foolish looking “assisted opening knives” but I don’t Go around preaching that no one else does , either.
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  #59  
Old 08-17-2019, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
Does anybody have stats showing that “carry” has reduced crime or “wilderness” injuries?
Stats......depends on the staticien.....data....
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  #60  
Old 08-17-2019, 07:46 AM
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And yet when you walk around town you're passing people who carry every day. The difference is they don't own that gun legally.
Nope....they are registered and carried by outstanding citizens....


Very true....
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